Universal Health Care

[darkdog]

Exactly. If 60% do have insurance, then we are still looking at 40% who don't. And the vast majority of those work every day. Millions of that 40% are children.

40%? Where did that come from? I've heard 15% (45.7 million people) and that was people who at any point in 2007 were uninsured, so that included people making temporary transitions between jobs.

 

[naisho]

Ok, let's reverse this around a bit.

¡OMG! I'm pretty sure they're wasting our tax dollars on other crap already on plans that didnt work! !OMG¡

Now with that being said, wouldn't it be better if they stop fooling around with some of the failed programs and worked on some real line of providable healthcare coverage instead?

 

[Jiro]

Ok, let's reverse this around a bit.

¡OMG! I'm pretty sure they're wasting our tax dollars on other crap already on plans that didnt work! !OMG¡

Now with that being said, wouldn't it be better if they stop fooling around with some of the failed programs and worked on some real line of providable healthcare coverage instead?

 

[jillio]

40%? Where did that come from? I've heard 15% (45.7 million people) and that was people who at any point in 2007 were uninsured, so that included people making temporary transitions between jobs.

Jasin claimed that 60% of Americans have health insurance. The total population of the United States would be 100%. 100% minus 60% equals 40%. I didn't say the figures were accurate...just showing the other side of the calculation.

 

[Foxrac]

I don't support universal health care aka "free" health center after found alot of bad experience in Canada and UK but I does support social insurance or more regulation on health care, such as require companies to offers affordable insurance to their employees and control on medical cost.

I do have medicaid but insurance via wal fart is limited because they use health credit to count, if you passes the health credit then coverage will stopped, they are nowhere to good as moderate to high paying job offers better benefits.

 

[webexplorer]

I don't support universal health care aka "free" health center after found alot of bad experience in Canada and UK but I does support social insurance or more regulation on health care, such as require companies to offers affordable insurance to their employees and control on medical cost.

I do have medicaid but insurance via wal fart is limited because they use health credit to count, if you passes the health credit then coverage will stopped, they are nowhere to good as moderate to high paying job offers better benefits.

I remember when President Clinton was the president maybe his first term, he had his own idea for all of us to join a health care plan. I don't know what it is called, so his plan was failed due the Congress of Republicans banned his idea. I don't know whether the Republicans were right or not. I don't follow up the old news so we need to stop both parties being baby or being selfish in their own party.

I hope that this time that Obama has a better idea. Surely, I am scare, too if we may not agree his plan or not - it is only way for us to find out soon from Obama's speech later on.

 

[Foxrac]

I remember when President Clinton was the president maybe his first term, he had his own idea for all of us to join a health care plan. I don't know what it is called, so his plan was failed due the Congress of Republicans banned his idea. I don't know whether the Republicans were right or not. I don't follow up the old news so we need to stop both parties being baby or being selfish in their own party.

I hope that this time that Obama has a better idea. Surely, I am scare, too if we may not agree his plan or not - it is only way for us to find out soon from Obama's speech later on.

Not true, you need look at history again.

During Clinton admin, in 1993 to 1995, congress is majority democratic, both in senate and house of rep, there's alot of democratic are range from moderate to conservative at this time.
103rd United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't solely blame on republican. :roll:

 

[webexplorer]

Not true, you need look at history again.

During Clinton admin, in 1993 to 1995, congress is majority democratic, both in senate and house of rep, there's alot of democratic are range from moderate to conservative at this time.
103rd United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't solely blame on republican. :roll:

104th Congress (1995-1997):
Economy Better Under Democrats Than Republicans? | Misanthropy Today

I think that you are right some of them because I see the different time line when he was in his two terms. I believe that Clinton brought up his idea in the wrong time when Republicans had 52 seats - than Democrats had 48 seats.

I didn't say to blame on Republicans. In fact, some Republicans and Democrats are ridiculous when they were in the meeting to make some stupid laws that wasted billions of dollars. I am a Democrat, and I personally like Nixon and Reagan. Unfortunately, they screwed up some systems that can't be fixed. Did they mentioned about a health care in their time? I don't remember.

 

[darkdog]

Jasin claimed that 60% of Americans have health insurance. The total population of the United States would be 100%. 100% minus 60% equals 40%. I didn't say the figures were accurate...just showing the other side of the calculation.

Ah, I see that now. I'm not sure where he got that number. Perhaps that excludes those who directly buy their own insurance because they're self-employed or whatever.

Anyway, the official number for 2007 is 45.7 million people, although that's not the number of those that want but can't afford insurance. That number includes those who only temporarily went without insurance due to a job transition, those who can afford it but choose to save their money instead, and those who are eligible for government programs but are not enrolled. The estimates I've seen for people who are not eligible for government programs yet cannot get insurance through their jobs or afford to buy it directly are around 8 million people.

 

[webexplorer]

Ah, I see that now. I'm not sure where he got that number. Perhaps that excludes those who directly buy their own insurance because they're self-employed or whatever.

Anyway, the official number for 2007 is 45.7 million people, although that's not the number of those that want but can't afford insurance. That number includes those who only temporarily went without insurance due to a job transition, those who can afford it but choose to save their money instead, and those who are eligible for government programs but are not enrolled. The estimates I've seen for people who are not eligible for government programs yet cannot get insurance through their jobs or afford to buy it directly are around 8 million people.

I have a question for you. Why many employees are working for their insurance company? Some of us know that they want to get big discounts for their own insurance bills awhile they work for the insurance company. I really think that these employees are very greedy.

A month ago, one man who worked for an insurance company got a layoff. He worked for some 20 years. He had very good discounts for a long time, and now he has to pay in full with his own pocket. He admitted himself for being selfish. He did say that on a local news on TV. :roll:

 

[Foxrac]

104th Congress (1995-1997):
Economy Better Under Democrats Than Republicans? | Misanthropy Today

I think that you are right some of them because I see the different time line when he was in his two terms. I believe that Clinton brought up his idea in the wrong time when Republicans had 52 seats - than Democrats had 48 seats.

I didn't say to blame on Republicans. In fact, some Republicans and Democrats are ridiculous when they were in the meeting to make some stupid laws that wasted billions of dollars. I am a Democrat, and I personally like Nixon and Reagan. Unfortunately, they screwed up some systems that can't be fixed. Did they mentioned about a health care in their time? I don't remember.

It was happened in 1993, during 103th congress.
Clinton health care plan of 1993 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Maria]

"Bernardin Amendment"

Law of the Land
The Bernardin Factor

The Late Cardinal Continues to Inspire

by Quentin Young

After the failure of healthcare reform on the national level in the early '90s, it may seem impossible to effect real change in the way society responds to the needs of the poor and underinsured. Yet one man's life, message, and legacy can provide practical guidance.

The late Joseph Cardinal Bernardin was fascinated by the profound similarities between doctors and pastors, and he regularly recalled his own intention to become a physician until the call to the church supervened.

Undoubtedly, the organic links between scriptural imperatives and the vast institutional presence of the church in health delivery compelled his pastoral attention. In 1995, he addressed the Harvard Business School on the topic of "Making the Case for Not-for-Profit Health Care," a provocative title in this era of servile obeisance to market economics.

He quoted Pope John Paul II regarding "the idea that the entirety of social life is to be determined by market exchanges is to run 'the risk of idolatry of the market, an idolatry which ignores the existence of goods which by their nature are not and cannot be merely commodities.' " He went on to assert that healthcare delivery was, in fact, one of those goods.

Elsewhere, Bernardin insisted that "Health care is an essential safeguard of human life and dignity, and there is an obligation for society to ensure that every person be able to realize this right.

"The only way this obligation can be effectively met by society is for our nation to make universal health care coverage a reality. . . . If justice is a hallmark of our national community, then we must fulfill our obligations in justice to the poor and unserved first and not last."

After Bernardin's death in 1996, his call to action was taken up by supporters who hoped to make the cardinal's vision the law in his home state of Illinois. His wisdom has been recast into legislative language and proposed as a state constitutional amendment.

The so-called Bernardin Amendment, which would mandate the state to provide universal health care, has garnered overwhelming support in a plebiscite and polls held throughout the state. Currently before the Illinois legislature awaiting consideration, it has sparked interest in several other states and become part of the political culture in numerous state coalitions for health reform.

Could Bernardin's legacy—miraculously—become the answer to the panic and disarray characterizing the market-driven American health system today?

The Bernardin Factor

 

[darkdog]

I have a question for you. Why many employees are working for their insurance company? Some of us know that they want to get big discounts for their own insurance bills awhile they work for the insurance company. I really think that these employees are very greedy.

A month ago, one man who worked for an insurance company got a layoff. He worked for some 20 years. He had very good discounts for a long time, and now he has to pay in full with his own pocket. He admitted himself for being selfish. He did say that on a local news on TV. :roll:

If a lot of people are working for insurance companies, it's because the insurance companies decided to hire a lot of people. The reason employees accept the jobs is because the insurance companies offer them acceptable compensations. I seriously doubt insurance company employees are greedier than employees in any other industry. Everyone tries to get the best salary and benefits possible. As long as it's through legitimate means, why should anyone turn down a good offer with excellent benefits from an employer? How does that make a person especially greedy?

 

[jillio]

Ah, I see that now. I'm not sure where he got that number. Perhaps that excludes those who directly buy their own insurance because they're self-employed or whatever.

Anyway, the official number for 2007 is 45.7 million people, although that's not the number of those that want but can't afford insurance. That number includes those who only temporarily went without insurance due to a job transition, those who can afford it but choose to save their money instead, and those who are eligible for government programs but are not enrolled. The estimates I've seen for people who are not eligible for government programs yet cannot get insurance through their jobs or afford to buy it directly are around 8 million people.

That sounds more like the figures I've seen in more than one breakdown.

 

[jillio]

"Bernardin Amendment"

Law of the Land
The Bernardin Factor

The Late Cardinal Continues to Inspire

by Quentin Young

After the failure of healthcare reform on the national level in the early '90s, it may seem impossible to effect real change in the way society responds to the needs of the poor and underinsured. Yet one man's life, message, and legacy can provide practical guidance.

The late Joseph Cardinal Bernardin was fascinated by the profound similarities between doctors and pastors, and he regularly recalled his own intention to become a physician until the call to the church supervened.

Undoubtedly, the organic links between scriptural imperatives and the vast institutional presence of the church in health delivery compelled his pastoral attention. In 1995, he addressed the Harvard Business School on the topic of "Making the Case for Not-for-Profit Health Care," a provocative title in this era of servile obeisance to market economics.

He quoted Pope John Paul II regarding "the idea that the entirety of social life is to be determined by market exchanges is to run 'the risk of idolatry of the market, an idolatry which ignores the existence of goods which by their nature are not and cannot be merely commodities.' " He went on to assert that healthcare delivery was, in fact, one of those goods.

Elsewhere, Bernardin insisted that "Health care is an essential safeguard of human life and dignity, and there is an obligation for society to ensure that every person be able to realize this right.

"The only way this obligation can be effectively met by society is for our nation to make universal health care coverage a reality. . . . If justice is a hallmark of our national community, then we must fulfill our obligations in justice to the poor and unserved first and not last."

After Bernardin's death in 1996, his call to action was taken up by supporters who hoped to make the cardinal's vision the law in his home state of Illinois. His wisdom has been recast into legislative language and proposed as a state constitutional amendment.

The so-called Bernardin Amendment, which would mandate the state to provide universal health care, has garnered overwhelming support in a plebiscite and polls held throughout the state. Currently before the Illinois legislature awaiting consideration, it has sparked interest in several other states and become part of the political culture in numerous state coalitions for health reform.

Could Bernardin's legacy—miraculously—become the answer to the panic and disarray characterizing the market-driven American health system today?

The Bernardin Factor

So does this mean that you are in favor of Obama's plan to provide health care coverage to all Americans? That is what Cardinal Bernardin is speaking of in this article.

 

[Maria]

So does this mean that you are in favor of Obama's plan to provide health care coverage to all Americans?

No.

That is what Cardinal Bernardin is speaking of in this article.

I know. I already read it.

 

[Jiro]

I know. I already read it.

curious - what's your intention in sharing this article?

 

[jillio]

I know. I already read it.

Sorry. Since you posted it, it would appear that you are in agreement. So i guess that means that you don't think that access to health care is the right of all people, including poor children.

 

[jasin]

40%? Where did that come from? I've heard 15% (45.7 million people) and that was people who at any point in 2007 were uninsured, so that included people making temporary transitions between jobs.

I got that off of an interview I seen on cnn some time back. One supposed health insurance expert, more of a politician really, was saying around 40% were uninsured. I suppose he was speaking very conservatively and not considering in private insurance or those covered by that as he only spoke of medical insurance plans through the government.

 

[jasin]

I personally think we need to improve existing health care and health care insurance. That's a better way to fix things then just outright universalizing health care. There is a lot of red tape, waste, etc.. in the health care system and that needs to be gotten rid of. Improving upon too what is covered under existing health care insurance plans and policies helps greatly too. Things like hearing aids, glasses, and what not should be covered without any problems.

Anyways, that's just my two cents on this.