Under the Word of God

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You mentioned about Mathew 13, 18, 21, 24 and 25 -- I read them all, Crazymanw00t.

Like I said above : Man's Free Will to do Good or Evil

(The Bible continuously throughout scripture instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will. Many persons misinterpret a few verses to arrive at the false idea that mankind does not have a free will to do good or make righteous decisions. Below are some verses which strongly show that mankind has the responsibility to exercise their free will and is commanded by God to do so.)

That's what Jesus was tryin' to explain when you gave me all the chapters of Mathew. In His Ancient Times, many of them do NOT heed the Word of God and, they lost their Everlastin' Life, because their hearts do NOT follow. They chose NOT to OBEY Him. It was NOT Jesus' decisions for them to not follow Jesus. It applies on everyone today.

The bottom line is : You were born on this earth so, what does it means to you ?
God/Jesus expects you to follow what God/Jesus teaches, right ? Will you reject God/Jesus on YOUR OWN CHOSE ?

God/Jesus gave EVERYONE 2 different choices : Everlastin' Life or Lose Everlastin' Life. That's people's choice to chose on whether if, they prefer this world's pleasure rather than God's or stay with God by followin' Him.

It wasn't God's cause for sins. It was Satan's cause for sins.
 
CyberRed said:
You mentioned about Mathew 13, 18, 21, 24 and 25 -- I read them all, Crazymanw00t.

Like I said above : Man's Free Will to do Good or Evil

(The Bible continuously throughout scripture instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will. Many persons misinterpret a few verses to arrive at the false idea that mankind does not have a free will to do good or make righteous decisions. Below are some verses which strongly show that mankind has the responsibility to exercise their free will and is commanded by God to do so.)

That's what Jesus was tryin' to explain when you gave me all the chapters of Mathew. In His Ancient Times, many of them do NOT heed the Word of God and, they lost their Everlastin' Life, because their hearts do NOT follow. They chose NOT to OBEY Him. It was NOT Jesus' decisions for them to not follow Jesus. It applies on everyone today.

The bottom line is : You were born on this earth so, what does it means to you ?
God/Jesus expects you to follow what God/Jesus teaches, right ? Will you reject God/Jesus on YOUR OWN CHOSE ?

God/Jesus gave EVERYONE 2 different choices : Everlastin' Life or Lose Everlastin' Life. That's people's choice to chose on whether if, they prefer this world's pleasure rather than God's or stay with God by followin' Him.

It wasn't God's cause for sins. It was Satan's cause for sins.
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I am sorry to tell you this. You have no choice to have the everlasting life or to be a loser. Lord the father has whole the decision for the people to have the salvation or not. It is hard to accept but it is fact and the point from the Bible. He (lord) is the ruler of everything that’s means he decides whatever you should do or not. There is nothing from your decision. Whole your decisions were made from Lord. Why that? Whole thing is to glorify the Lord and for his wants for his a mystery plan in the future.

Ok let me explain the logic from your point. If we had the choices, and then why do the Lord sent his son on the cross? I know Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sin but what if everyone forsakes Jesus Christ’s offers then the Lord’s plan is a failure plan because we have the power to make choice. It is very impossible for the Lord to be a failure. He has a perfect plan and that’s mean he is ruler of everything. He already knows what you will do in .1 sec to 100 years later from now and for future with every detail. Therefore he is ruler of you and he made decision through your own decision.

You are trying to tell me that you have the power to change the Lord’s plan? Please! Therefore you are under Lord’s charge and he is “toying” you to glorify him. That is whole the point that what you are living for.

I must correct you with the sentence that you made, “It was Satan’s cause for sins.” I am telling you that the Satan has done nothing with our sins. He just persuaded us to do the sin. We are the responsible for our own sins. There are no powers from Satan controlling us to do the sin life. You are revolt the Lord’s holiness standard just because you wanted to. There is no Satan causing you to do the sins because Satan wanted to.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
I am sorry to tell you this. You have no choice to have the everlasting life or to be a loser. Lord the father has whole the decision for the people to have the salvation or not.
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Then why does He command us to spread His Gospel all over the world, to all people? To tease them? I don't think so.


If we had the choices, and then why do the Lord sent his son on the cross?
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"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
That "whosoever" means any person who believes.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
That is nothing of freewill or Predestination. It is a point out for those people who won't give up their sin and pick up their cross and walk with Jesus Christ.
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The calvinism believes in irresistible grace. However Mark 10:7-22 show VERY OBVIOUSLY that a rich man had his FREEWILL to reject Jesus' offer and went away.

Mark 10:17-22 show the resistible grace. The calvinism is wrong.
 
This is my first time to post here today. After I have read the posts about the "Under the Word of God".., I want to share my thoughts about this.

WHO WAS HE?​

Who was Jesus (God) ? If you don’t accept Him as the true Savior, you must conclude that He was a phony, a madman, or that His disciples started the greatest hoax on earth.


PHONY?​
Could He (Jesus) have been merely trying to gain a following? If He was, He certainly wasn’t very successful! -- If you gauge success by power or financial gain. He turned many away by His high standards and His unwillingness to overlook hypocrisy and half-heartedness. And He certainly wasn’t tricking people to get their money. The evidence does not support the possibility that He was a charlatan.


MADMAN?​
Self-deceived? Sincere but deluded about His own identity? His words and actions do not reflect the behavior of a person who is mentally unstable. Such a charge against Him does not explain the miracles, the miracles, the brilliance of His teaching, nor His resurrection.


HOAX?​
Could the disciples have been guilty of painting a picture of Jesus (God) that was far bigger than life?. It doesn’t make sense that all the disciples would conspire to create a monstrous lie that would contradict what they knew was a lie?. The disciples wouldn’t have either, yet most of them died as martyrs.


TRUTH?​
We have good reason to believe that the Bible presents an accurate picture of Jesus Christ (God). His fulfillment of prophecy, His impact on history, His life and teachings, and the response of His disciples all point to a conclusion that He (God) was and is all that He (God) claimed to be the Son of God, architect, author and Creator of life.

John 1:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10

LoneOak
 
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Crazymanw00t said:
I am sorry to tell you this. You have no choice to have the everlasting life or to be a loser. Lord the father has whole the decision for the people to have the salvation or not. It is hard to accept but it is fact and the point from the Bible. He (lord) is the ruler of everything that’s means he decides whatever you should do or not. There is nothing from your decision. Whole your decisions were made from Lord. Why that? Whole thing is to glorify the Lord and for his wants for his a mystery plan in the future.
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Supppose you believe on Jesus and become saved. You are excited, faithful to church, study His word. You are growing spiritually. One day, you die. You expect to go to Heaven. But you find out when God says, I did not choose you to go to Heaven. You are going to hell! How would you feel? That is what you just described.
 
Askjo said:
Supppose you believe on Jesus and become saved. You are excited, faithful to church, study His word. You are growing spiritually. One day, you die. You expect to go to Heaven. But you find out when God says, I did not choose you to go to Heaven. You are going to hell! How would you feel? That is what you just described.
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What if Jesus had change his mind about going to the cross and let us all go to hell?

Eternal life could not be given to believers, unless Christ, their Surety, both glorified the Father, and was glorified of Him. This is the sinner's way to eternal life, and when this knowledge shall be made perfect, holiness and happiness will be fully enjoyed. The holiness and happiness of the redeemed, are especially that glory of Christ, and of his Father, which was the joy set before him, for which he endured the cross and despised the shame; this glory was the end of the sorrow of his soul, and in obtaining it he was fully satisfied. Thus we are taught that our glorifying God is needed as an evidence of our interest in Christ, through whom eternal life is God's free gift. It says so in John 17:1-26
 
Reba said:
Then why does He command us to spread His Gospel all over the world, to all people? To tease them? I don't think so.
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To save his chosen people from being a lost soul person. At same time to guilt the people who refuses to believe in Jesus Christ.

Reba said:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
That "whosoever" means any person who believes.
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You are right with that. Jesus still already know who will go to hell and heaven because the Lord gave the name for those people with salvation or with no salvation.

NASB
3:16"For God so (A)loved the world, that He (B)gave His (C)only begotten Son, that whoever (D)believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Let look closely to who was the whosever. D# John 3:16 : John 3:36; 6:40; 11:25

3:36 "He who (A)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (B)does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who (A)beholds the Son and (B)believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will (C)raise him up on the last day."

11:25 Jesus said to her, "(A)I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Therefore it was speaking to the his chosen people that will have the salvation.
 
By the way, I know a theologian who is both a Charismatic and a Calvinist.

:mrgreen:

He goes to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, i think for a THD, and posts on the theologyweb.com forum.
 
Askjo said:
The calvinism believes in irresistible grace. However Mark 10:7-22 show VERY OBVIOUSLY that a rich man had his FREEWILL to reject Jesus' offer and went away.

Mark 10:17-22 show the resistible grace. The calvinism is wrong.
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Ok you got the different view and I don't know where it came from. Let me explain with everything with Mark 10:17-22.

You need to look at this verse very carefully. It is clearly that Jesus Christ knew his sin life and he is pointing out to him. Therefore the Rich guy refuses to sell his things and follow Jesus Christ. He held his things better than Jesus Christ. So he walks away.

Here's the verse. Mark 10:21
NASB
21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

You can see that Jesus Christ knew his sin life. Jesus spoke him to sell his possess and give it to the poor. If the Rich man do what Jesus Christ and he will have the salvation. To get the salvation and he must follow him (Justification).

Let me move to next verse.

Mark 10:22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

Now he realized that he has to sell his possess to follow Jesus Christ. He just refuses it and then he walk away act like a refusing to take his offer. He want to keep whole his possess and his sin is the pride to have much possess than other. That is why he is a sinner also he was born as sinner, too.




The irresistible grace is connected with whole TULIP. If you disagree with one of TULIP and you are disagreeing with whole TULIP.

Now let me move to EPH 1:4 verse with your belief of resistible grace.

NASB
EPH 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love

If you say that the resistible grace is true then that verse is a lair. Why? Your point is that Jesus Christ and Lord had to depend on your behavior on tomorrow and day after tomorrow and so on. It don't make sense and the Lord already knows what you will do tomorrow and day after tomorrow before you were born and before the Earth exists. Therefore he knows who will have the salvation and no salvation. Therefore the irresistible grace is true.

You can't prevent the Holy spirit touching your heart to follow Jesus Christ. With the resistible grace and you can prevent the holy spirit touching your heart to follow Jesus Christ. Does it make logic sense? How can you prevent the holy spirit touching your heart to follow Jesus Chirst? It is impossible.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
NASB

3:36 "He who (A)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (B)does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
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Not to obey is freewill to reject Jesus.

To believe is freewill to trust Jesus.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
To save his chosen people from being a lost soul person. At same time to guilt the people who refuses to believe in Jesus Christ.
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That doesn't make sense. If, as you believe, someone is already chosen to be saved, then how could that person become a "lost soul"? And why would God lay guilt on people Whom He had not chosen, if free will was not an option? It is not logical.

... the Lord gave the name for those people with salvation or with no salvation.

NASB
3:16 "For God so (A)loved the world, that He (B)gave His (C)only begotten Son, that whoever (D)believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

3:36 "He who (A)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (B)does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who (A)beholds the Son and (B)believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will (C)raise him up on the last day."

11:25 Jesus said to her, "(A)I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
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The very verses that you have quoted prove my point. "Whosoever" is any person who believes in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Each reference you gave stated that each person who believes in Jesus will have eternal life. Your references did not prove that God chose only certain people to get eternal life. Your verses proved my point, not yours. Thank you. :)
 
Askjo said:
Not to obey is freewill to reject Jesus.

To believe is freewill to trust Jesus.
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(Sighs) You missed my points and Heretic's point with the Freewill. Did you read it? I hope you did it.

They don't obey Jesus because they aren't his chosen people. How can someone believe in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ already knew that person will not be saved before he was born. He can act like a Christian but never had the savlation anyway.

For your information the Free-will is out of logic thing from the Bible. Did you read carefully with the Free-will's statements with the Bible verses? I want to advice you to read the whole chapter instead of just reading only the verses. That is free-will's major problems.
 
Reba said:
That doesn't make sense. If, as you believe, someone is already chosen to be saved, then how could that person become a "lost soul"? And why would God lay guilt on people Whom He had not chosen, if free will was not an option? It is not logical.
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Everyone is born as a lost soul(Sinner), period. The holy spirit is awaiting to enter the his chosen people at the right time. After the holy spirit entered the person and his mind and heart will be open and listen to the Gospel for the savlation. Therefore he became a saved because he was his chosen people.

To guilt those people that they knew there is God but they forsake God because they want to do the sin life instead to live in the holy life. They are labeled as an Anti-Christ.

There are many lost souls out there waiting to be saved. There are billions of the Anti-Christ people. There are very few Christian (His chosen people). My point is that there are only Christian and Anti-Christ in the world. Those lost soul are Christian too but they haven't got the salvation, yet. They will get the salvation anyway because they are his chosen people.

Am I making sense?

Reba said:
The very verses that you have quoted prove my point. "Whosoever" is any person who believes in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Each reference you gave stated that each person who believes in Jesus will have eternal life. Your references did not prove that God chose only certain people to get eternal life. Your verses proved my point, not yours. Thank you. :)
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Ok if you move and put it together with Eph 1:4 and does it make sense?
 
Askjo said:
Supppose you believe on Jesus and become saved. You are excited, faithful to church, study His word. You are growing spiritually. One day, you die. You expect to go to Heaven. But you find out when God says, I did not choose you to go to Heaven. You are going to hell! How would you feel? That is what you just described.
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You are not making sense. Maybe the word of chosen is too powerful for you and overwhelms you.

If you walk, follow, repeant, faithful, and a godly person and then you are obviously his chosen people. Can Jesus Christ be a failure? Never.

If you are not his chosen people and you will hate the gospel and always tries to aviod to walk with Jesus Christ or refusing to give up the sin life (slave of sin) and so on.

It is a big difference between Chosen and Not Chosen people.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
It is a big difference between Chosen and Not Chosen people.
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God's chosen people are the Jews. They are the people of God's promise to Abraham.

God's saved people are whosoever accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. That includes people of all nationalities, races, and religious background.
 
Reba said:
God's chosen people are the Jews. They are the people of God's promise to Abraham.

God's saved people are whosoever accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. That includes people of all nationalities, races, and religious background.
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Correct, Reba! I agree with you.
 
Reba said:
God's chosen people are the Jews. They are the people of God's promise to Abraham.

God's saved people are whosoever accept the salvation of Jesus Christ. That includes people of all nationalities, races, and religious background.
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Please! If Jesus Choosen Jews only then why you are a Christian?

You are missing my point. God's choosen people is anyone that believes in Jesus Christ and that means you are his choosen people. Is that clear? You have the holy spirit inside you to understand Jesus Christ. If you don't have a Holy spirit then you will never understand Jesus Christ or reject him.

How can you command the holy spirit to come in your body? Remember that you are a sinner and you cannot talk with God. You only can talk through Jesus Christ to God. God gave the book of life names to Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ died on the cross for those names and nothing else than book of life. It means Jesus Christ will preserve the names from the book of life. Do you understand? Or I am not making any sense?

It is obviously that you believe in free-will and can you please give me the verses for that free-will theory thing.
 
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