Todd Palin quits, supports socialism

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heck, most people would quit their jobs for a several million dollar payout.
 
I already knew Todd is a democrat, known that a long time ago. He have already admitted it.

What's with union and democrat anyway? It seem like they all vote for democrats. And I never understood union really. If a job is unsafe, then they shouldn't form a union over it, The government should have health dept or something like that and tell them they will shut down their business until they practice safety and things like that.

Union also fight for benefits as well... well with national healthcare, I guess they don't need a union anymore. Their job would no longer be accountable because healthcare pay for everything they need.
 
Am a left leaning centrit....middle ofthe road.......I don't care for unions.....they are innefficient. Drive up wages whcih drives up prices all across the board. Spoiled. We do need workplace protections but unions get carried away spoiling people. ot all of them but like GM wages etc helped to put it into the tank. We can't compete with other countries......GM good example cuz other countries can pay lower wages etc and compete.
Nothin wrong with the Palins.....just that they ain't presidential material. I'd hook up with Sarah anyday.....wink!
 
Cowpuppy said:
Am a left leaning centrit....middle ofthe road.......I don't care for unions.....they are innefficient. Drive up wages whcih drives up prices all across the board. Spoiled. We do need workplace protections but unions get carried away spoiling people. ot all of them but like GM wages etc helped to put it into the tank. We can't compete with other countries......GM good example cuz other countries can pay lower wages etc and compete.
Nothin wrong with the Palins.....just that they ain't presidential material. I'd hook up with Sarah anyday.....wink!
Click to expand...

Unions provided a much needed social function at one time. However, as our culture has changed, unions have changed, and they have basically outlived their usefullness.
 
kokonut said:
Heck, most people would quit their jobs for a several million dollar payout.
Click to expand...

Yeah, big man living off the little woman's 15 minutes of fame. Looks like he needs to get his testicles out of Sarah's purse. And neither one of them know how to follow through. A entire family of quitters. Not a great reccomendation. When the going gets tough, the Palins run.
 
GM failed because of their union made a mess of things. The govt should have let them go bankrupt in the first palce so that way when they file for bankruptcy any contracts with the union are voided, and they can start over and renegotiate. But the govt had to be an idiot and bailed them out for $20 billion dollars which didn't work and GM still had to file for bankruptcy protection, and then they received an additional $30 billion dollars and now the govt controls GM now known as "Government Motors." The money was used to help the union...not the company itself per se....who caused this GM financial mess.

There's a time when a union gets too powerful for their own britches in a company. There's a time and place to have a union and should be used sparingly and smartly, not recklessly. I don't like unions for a lot of reasons.
 
There are any number of reasons why GM failed, most of which had very little to do with the union, and a great deal to do with mismanagement and exhorbitant salaries paid to top level executives...who, by the way, are not union members.

What have you got against the working man, Kokonut?
 
Here it is folks.

Learn how the UAW helped GM it's slide to oblivion along with GM's own mismanagement. The UAW's demands are what drove the cost of cars until it became unsustainable because GM would have to sell more and more cars. But that's not possible when you have so many competiting auto companies. You get a rising, cumulative "cost per hour" (not actual earnings but includes benefits, retirement, health care coverage, etc) every year like $73/hr.

If you have declining sales, rising costs, rising hourly pay and retirement pay, how can they all be reconcilled and fit into a nice, neat little picture?

It can't.

I predict that GM will ultimately fail and go completely out of business as another microcosm of big govt failure.

UAW Workers Actually Cost the Big Three Automakers $70 an Hour

The bankruptcy of General Motors: A giant falls | The Economist
 
the union did play a part in it.....but GM's problems was they went after the big truck martket and the big SUV markets and overextended (too many dealerships). gas hogs....and when the price of gas went up....and the ecnomyhit the brakes...GM was hit hard.......they went after the 'current rave fad moneys' and failed to plan for more effiecient vehicle marketing. Cars were made smaller...and trucks....in late 70's after the fuel shortages of 70's....all that was lost in the economic boom days...where people were more concerned with being fadish than be careful. GM chased the money....Fordsaw this coming few years back and loaned moneys to start planning for future.
GM supplies affordable cars but chased the wrong market.
 
kokonut said:
GM failed because of their union made a mess of things. The govt should have let them go bankrupt in the first palce so that way when they file for bankruptcy any contracts with the union are voided, and they can start over and renegotiate. But the govt had to be an idiot and bailed them out for $20 billion dollars which didn't work and GM still had to file for bankruptcy protection, and then they received an additional $30 billion dollars and now the govt controls GM now known as "Government Motors." The money was used to help the union...not the company itself per se....who caused this GM financial mess.

There's a time when a union gets too powerful for their own britches in a company. There's a time and place to have a union and should be used sparingly and smartly, not recklessly. I don't like unions for a lot of reasons.
Click to expand...

kokonut said:
Here it is folks.

Learn how the UAW helped GM it's slide to oblivion along with GM's own mismanagement. The UAW's demands are what drove the cost of cars until it became unsustainable because GM would have to sell more and more cars. But that's not possible when you have so many competiting auto companies. You get a rising, cumulative "cost per hour" (not actual earnings but includes benefits, retirement, health care coverage, etc) every year like $73/hr.

If you have declining sales, rising costs, rising hourly pay and retirement pay, how can they all be reconcilled and fit into a nice, neat little picture?

It can't.

I predict that GM will ultimately fail and go completely out of business as another microcosm of big govt failure.

UAW Workers Actually Cost the Big Three Automakers $70 an Hour

The bankruptcy of General Motors: A giant falls | The Economist
Click to expand...

this is strange. where's Obama in this post? :dunno: I thought you're gonna blame him too.
 
Jiro said:
this is strange. where's Obama in this post? :dunno: I thought you're gonna blame him too.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the "There's a time and place to have unions" comment. Are we talking past tense? Like 50 years ago? Or maybe for McDonalds workers in Shanghai?
 
This was copied from
GM CEO's compensation jumps 64 percent in 2007 | Reuters

By David Bailey

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N) Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.

The GM compensation committee cited significant progress over the past few years in reducing the automaker's health care cost burden, increasing growth internationally and improvements in its cars and trucks in the 2007 awards to executives.

Wagoner's compensation rose from about $9.57 million in 2006. The figure was arrived at based on Wagoner's salary, all other compensation and the basis of annual grants.

GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.

GM, which reported a record $39 billion net loss in 2007, released the figures in a proxy statement on Friday afternoon that was filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

The automaker, which has been restructuring, reached a contract in 2007 with the United Auto Workers that has permitted buyouts for its UAW hourly workers, a second-tier wage for new hires and a plan that will push billions of health care obligations into a union-aligned trust.

Wagoner had accepted a reduced base salary in 2006 and 2007 and only about 16 percent of his compensation is guaranteed. In March, GM granted Wagoner a raise to $2.2 million per year, restoring his salary to 2006 levels.

Fritz Henderson, who was promoted to president and chief operating officer in March, received compensation of about $9.3 million in 2007, up from about $5.1 million in 2006.

Henderson's salary was raised to $1.8 million from $1.3 million in March with his appointment as president and COO, the No. 2 position to Wagoner.

Vice Chairman Bob Lutz's compensation rose to about $9 million in 2007, from about $5.1 million in 2006. The product chief's salary was raised to $1.75 million, from $1.3 million.

The issue of executive compensation in the struggling U.S. auto industry has become something of a hot-button issue because of the United Auto Workers union.

A report earlier in April that Ford Motor Co (F.N) Chief Executive Alan Mulally had earned more than $22 million in 2007, drew a sharp rebuke from the UAW as excessive, given concessions UAW members had agreed to in the 2007 contract.

Ford, which posted a $2.7 billion loss in 2007, reported a first quarter profit on Thursday that surprised analysts.

GM and other major automakers have been hit by a slowing in the U.S. economy and rising fuel costs that have driven a major shift in consumer preferences toward cars and crossovers and away from large sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks.

GM also said E. Neville Isdell, chairman and CEO of Coca-Cola Co (KO.N), has been nominated to GM's board. He would join the board August 6 if elected at GM's annual meeting in Delaware on June 3.

(Reporting by David Bailey; Editing by Andre Grenon and Carol Bishopric)
 
Salaries of executives are quite small when combined compared to the amount of retirement pension, benefits, higher hourly pay, and such that the UAW kept driving up the costs while sales continue to go down.

Again, how come Toyota hasn't crashed and burned like GM? Nobody answered my question. Japan is the number one automaker in the world. Now, that's a different topic thread. Not here. If you feel like it's worth discussing, start a new thread on autos.
 
kokonut said:
Salaries of executives are quite small when combined compared to the amount of retirement pension, benefits, higher hourly pay, and such that the UAW kept driving up the costs while sales continue to go down.

Again, how come Toyota hasn't crashed and burned like GM? Nobody answered my question. Japan is the number one automaker in the world.
Click to expand...

1. It has its own concept different from Ford concept.
2. It does not pay exhuberant amount for its executives
3. It has program to make its workers happy
4. It took over 20 years to solidify its reputation as reliable & cheap cars
5. It never stops progressing and innovating
6. it has one of the most efficient and cutting edge supply management system

GM did none of those.... thus continues to fail. GM has one of the most inefficient supply system, continues to pay exuberant amount to CEO's, succumb to UAW, place priority on looks instead of functionality, and so many more. That's why this is a common subject for business classes. Toyota Model is a well-studied case for business students. Who the F***! want to buy a shit American car for same price as japanese car (but cheaper maintenance and cheaper parts)? Exception is Cadillac. There's a reason why "Cadillac" is universally-known term.

something for you to read why Toyota is winning - [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_i_1?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3AToyota&keywords=Toyota&ie=UTF8&qid=1254598585]Amazon.com: Toyota: Books[/ame] or [ame]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=toyota+success[/ame]

btw - you might want to check on what you just said. But that's ok... since you have no business background :)
 
The entire situation is all about greed. Union workers making $73 per hour total compensation. Executives making 20 times the same rate of Japanese CEOs. Certainly anyone can spin the numbers either way to support their point of view. According to my calculations, the top dog at GM made approximately $4,807.70 per hour, salary only.

Union questions auto execs' pay packages - USATODAY.com


Updated 10/10/2007 10:26 AM | By H. Darr Beiser, USA TODAY

General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner got $9.3 million in salary plus bonus last year.


By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY
DETROIT — The United Auto Workers says it knows it needs to help Detroit's automakers cut labor costs to reduce the gap in production expenses with Asian rivals. But as talks continue on new contracts, the union also is questioning why top executives at the automakers are paid what they are.
"As much as workers do, workers can't do enough, and as much as executives get, they cannot get enough," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said during last month's two-day strike against General Motors (GM).

During talks with GM, the UAW pointed out that while the automaker has complained that hourly wages and benefits are dragging it down, it has continued awarding bonuses to its top executives.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned $9.3 million in salary and bonus in 2006, nearly double what he earned in 2005.

While UAW members finish voting on a new contract with General Motors that includes a cost-of-living freeze, union negotiators have moved on to Chrysler, with Ford Motor (F) next.

Chrysler's new CEO, Bob Nardelli, became a symbol of corporate excess when he left Home Depot early this year with a $210 million severance package. Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus.

Some top executives have taken steps to curtail their pay during automakers' recent financial difficulties. Former Ford CEO Bill Ford took only $1 in wages during his tenure and donated much of his stock-based pay to charity. Wagoner and his top lieutenants took a base pay cut, although they continued to get bonuses.

Pros and cons

The automakers didn't want to comment on the issue.

Critics say automotive executive paydays are out of line with what's happening in the industry. "It seems like something out of the gilded age," says Chris Kutalik, an editor at Labor Notes newspaper. "It's such a glaring disparity."

Others say executive salaries are determined by what companies are willing to pay for the talent. "There's pros and cons to every bit of it. Do you want the job of being a CEO of a bankrupt supplier for nothing? The question becomes what's the right amount of pay for the job that's being rendered," says Laurie Harbour Felax, auto industry consultant at Stout Risius Ross.

Mulally defended his pay package to reporters last summer, saying, "All the skills required to run a business are market-driven."

Pay packages at U.S. automakers don't stand out compared with those at other U.S. companies. The median 2006 compensation for CEOs at 50 of the largest U.S. companies was $17.8 million, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from Salary.com's CompAnalyst Executive database. Packages included salary, bonus, perks and stock and options awards.

But U.S. executive pay outpaces that of Asian companies, including Asian automakers.

Detroit automakers have focused on the gap between their hourly workers and those of the non-union foreign automakers in the USA. Union workers say the executive pay gap should be examined, as well.

"There is a huge difference between Asia and here when it comes to the top executive compensation," says Han Kim, a professor of business administration at the University of Michigan. "Rarely in Asia, especially Japan and Korea, do the CEOs get paid more than a million dollars."

Japanese companies are not required to break out salaries and bonuses for top executives. Instead, they lump them together. Last year, Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6 million in salary and bonuses, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. U.K. firm Manifest Information Services, which analyzes proxy information, estimates Toyota's top executive, Hiroshi Okuda, earned $903,000 in 2006.

At Honda, the top 21 earned $11.1 million, combined, in salary and bonuses, SEC filings show.

"There is this huge gap between the average worker and the CEO, and the gap is greatest in the U.S.," Kim says. "That kind of thing might work where individual work counts the most, but in the manufacturing sector, it's all about teamwork."

It's difficult to get a precise comparison because Japanese companies are not required to include perks. "It's a very tough comparison to make," says David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research. The perks given to Japanese executives can include homes, chauffeurs, country club memberships. In the USA, "our disclosure on things like this is pretty complete. The first inclination is to say there's this huge difference, but I don't think that's true."

"It's true that they have some of those extra perks," Felax says. "But let's not kid ourselves; so do the American guys."

Focus on hourly pay

Despite UAW grumbling about executive pay, the focus throughout the current labor negotiations has been on hourly worker pay. GM's proposed contract attempts to close the gap between its workers and those of its foreign rivals.

It's estimated that GM workers earn an average $73 an hour when benefits including health care and pensions are added in. That appears to be about $25 an hour more than Toyota's U.S. workers.

Toyota and GM workers earn about the same hourly wages. Benefits are what push the UAW members ahead. The GM contract slashes the hourly rate by making changes in retiree health care. The contract also will allow GM to bring in certain workers at lower wages.

For Gregory Stack, a Chrysler union worker in Detroit, the conversation about hourly pay seems unfair.

"We're all pretty much watching helplessly as the situation with the domestic auto industry worsens daily," says Stack, who is a third-generation autoworker. "Unions are getting a lot of negative press as being the sole cause of all the problems with the corporations."

While he's willing to take some concessions in the upcoming contract, he says he hopes something is done to fix the wage structure up top, as well.

"The disparity is massive," he says. "It does not all necessarily lie with the unions."


 
Jiro said:
1. It has its own concept different from Ford concept.
2. It does not pay exhuberant amount for its executives
3. It has program to make its workers happy
4. It took over 20 years to solidify its reputation as reliable & cheap cars
5. It never stops progressing and innovating
6. it has one of the most efficient and cutting edge supply management system

GM did none of those.... thus continues to fail. GM has one of the most inefficient supply system, continues to pay exuberant amount to CEO's, succumb to UAW, place priority on looks instead of functionality, and so many more. That's why this is a common subject for business classes. Toyota Model is a well-studied case for business students. Who the F***! want to buy a shit American car for same price as japanese car (but cheaper maintenance and cheaper parts)? Exception is Cadillac. There's a reason why "Cadillac" is universally-known term.

something for you to read why Toyota is winning - Amazon.com: Toyota: Books or Let me google that for you

btw - you might want to check on what you just said. But that's ok... since you have no business background :)
Click to expand...
Oh those awful pensions! He made no mention of the 64% salary increase for GM when they were in slide mode. Good job running our company, Mr. Wagoner! Here is a 64% salary increase that we garnered by having the union make concessions!
 
There you go, saywahtkid. :ty: for sharing those information. It is not just UAW. It's also CEO and the executive level. Entire GM's fate lies on CEO's and its board. They are simply greedy and they expect a handout from federal government... which they got.

Don't forget - this is GM we're talking about. One of the largest and biggest corporations in the world. Obviously - they have extremely intelligent people working for them (the think tank). They are not stupid. it is sad that their ulterior motive is $$$$$ greed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top