Speaking and signing called key to richer life

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Banjo said:
As usual, everyone has a problem with each other.

By the way, Merry Christmas.
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Very happy holidays to you, as well.:wave:
 
faire_jour said:
In order to make a standard, you would have to be able to prove that ASL and English have better outcomes than English only. I have yet to see a study that shows that using ASL to teach English works better than teaching English. And, again, I know deaf people who would work to have the language be English, that do not think that ASL is the best way to educate deaf children.

But, that is far off base from what I was talking about. I was simply saying that there is not a single deaf perspective that all adhere to, and that by disagreeing, you are not puting down or disrespecting that "deaf experience" (because there is NOT one perspective, there are tons).
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A hearing person disagreeing with a deaf perspective just strikes me as comical.
 
Jiro said:
so since hearing students have one standard.... do you believe we should have same standard for deaf students too?
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Hmmmm, haven't thought about it before. I think they should have to meet the same standards in academics and English, but mandating one methodology over another....I don't think I am comfortable with that. But, on the other hand, I think that if they did mandate one, I think private programs supporting the others would pop up and those kids would still use the other methods.
 
faire_jour said:
My problem is with your assertion that one deaf person speaks for ALL deaf people. You pretend that there is one "deaf perspective" and that all who don't make all their decisions based on this one person's view are "disrespecting the experiences of deaf adults". Not a single word of Grendel's response was disrespecting someone's experience, it was responding to clearly false claims.

And as for "disrespecting a deaf adult's experience", that is done CONSTANTLY here by people who call oral deaf people socially backward, say they they never learned language, that they are in denial, that they don't have friends, and on and on. You have picked ONE perspective and declared that it is the only acceptable voice for deaf people.
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I have never asserted any such thing. What I have said is that deaf adults speak for the experience of the majority. And that is confirmed here as well as elsewhere.

Deaf people have declared that it is the acceptable perspective, not I. I simply follow their lead. You would do well to do the same.
 
Beowulf said:
A hearing person disagreeing with a deaf perspective just strikes me as comical.
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I'm not. I am disagreeing that Jillio's opinion (and she is hearing) and perspective is the only acceptable perspective for deaf people.
 
faire_jour said:
In order to make a standard, you would have to be able to prove that ASL and English have better outcomes than English only. I have yet to see a study that shows that using ASL to teach English works better than teaching English. And, again, I know deaf people who would work to have the language be English, that do not think that ASL is the best way to educate deaf children.

But, that is far off base from what I was talking about. I was simply saying that there is not a single deaf perspective that all adhere to, and that by disagreeing, you are not puting down or disrespecting that "deaf experience" (because there is NOT one perspective, there are tons).
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That has been supported through years of research. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it isn't there. There was research that stated just that in an earlier thread. Unfortunately, that thread got closed because too many hearing parents took offense at the research.
 
jillio said:
I have never asserted any such thing. What I have said is that deaf adults speak for the experience of the majority. And that is confirmed here as well as elsewhere.

Deaf people have declared that it is the acceptable perspective, not I. I simply follow their lead. You would do well to do the same.
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The part you are missing is that for every ASL Deaf person I have met, I have met an equal number of oral deaf people. I have heard dozens of perspectives. That is the point, there isn't a single acceptable deaf perspective.

Yeah, there is a majority here, but often the minority is told that they are ignorant, disrespectful and flat out wrong when they share their perspective. They are told that they are "making light" of other people's serious pain and they are accused (just like Grendel and I) of disrespecting other's experiences, simply by sharing their opinion.
 
jillio said:
That has been supported through years of research. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it isn't there. There was research that stated just that in an earlier thread. Unfortunately, that thread got closed because too many hearing parents took offense at the research.
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Too many? :roll: There are 3 hearing parents who regularly post here, and all three of them use ASL with their children.
 
faire_jour said:
I'm not. I am disagreeing that Jillio's opinion (and she is hearing) and perspective is the only acceptable perspective for deaf people.
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Never once have I stated that my perspective is the correct one for the deaf. The deaf themselves have stated that the perspective they have taught me to adopt is the correct one for the deaf. That is where you are making your gravest error. You assume that because you can't get past your hearing perspective, I can't either. That is a wrong assumption. Maybe after you have been at this awhile, you will see the light. Maybe not. Some people are never able to put themselves in another's shoes.
 
faire_jour said:
Too many? :roll: There are 3 hearing parents who regularly post here, and all three of them use ASL with their children.
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What is your point? This has nothing to do with the post I responded to. Slow down and read. ASL or no, it was the hearing parents that objected to the research findings; you, yourself, being one of them.
 
jillio said:
Never once have I stated that my perspective is the correct one for the deaf. The deaf themselves have stated that the perspective they have taught me to adopt is the correct one for the deaf. That is where you are making your gravest error. You assume that because you can't get past your hearing perspective, I can't either. That is a wrong assumption. Maybe after you have been at this awhile, you will see the light. Maybe not. Some people are never able to put themselves in another's shoes.
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You are missing that there are plenty of deaf people who disagree with that perspective.
 
Beowulf said:
A hearing person disagreeing with a deaf perspective just strikes me as comical.
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Which (of the many) deaf perspectives is in discussion here, though?
 
jillio said:
Not at all. You don't have the credentials. And I dislike misinformation in this field as much as I dislike misinformation re: deafness. I don't need to convince people of anything. The people who matter already know. And those who have issues they project onto me are not of the least concern to me.

You might want to pay a bit more attention to what the deaf themselves say about what I do. The judgement of the hearing with a few months experience is the least of my concerns.
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Unlike you, I don't wave my credentials about or challenge others to justify their right to have a perspective. But oh Jillio, you are very wrong. And you don't speak for my daughter.
 
faire_jour said:
You are missing that there are plenty of deaf people who disagree with that perspective.
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Where are they? Certainly not around here, and not in the population I deal with on a daily basis.
 
GrendelQ said:
Unlike you, I don't wave my credentials about or challenge others to justify their right to have a perspective. But oh Jillio, you are very wrong. And you don't speak for my daughter.
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Of course you don't. You have no credentials to wave.

Isn't it ironic that people like you demand to know my credentials, and then complain when I give them.:laugh2:

Never claimed to speak for your daughter. But wait until she is old enough to understand what is going on and can develop a perspective of her own. You are in for a big surprise.
 
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