Selective abortion.

[Hermes]

Parasites are known to injure the host. In this case, a fetus can injure the host.

What kind of logic is this? You can injure yourself too. Is this your scientific outcome? It doesnt mean the fetus functions in a way that injures the host. Its not fetuses natural behavior.

I asked you a question, you didnt answer. Let me repeat.. Are you sure an organism carries your very own DNA, created in you and growing in a place designed to support it in your own body can be called parasite?

Are you also sure the body treats the fetus as a parasite? Do you really have any scientific facts showing , human body consideres and reacts to its own fetus as a parasite?

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[jillio]

then why show us pictures and come up with fallacious statement like - why don't you go and touch it? That doesn't sound like pro-choice. It makes me laugh when a person claim to be pro-choice but have a heavy pro-life view. Such a confused person....

It's as fallacious as a person saying "Don't want a baby? don't spread your legs."


That's up to them. Should a mother be able to abort her fetus because she will never be able to provide her child with a good life? Some people don't have any faith in system (foster, adoption, orphan house, etc.) and are terrified for their well-beings being at hands of strangers who could end up abusing or selling them.

And it is a justified fear, given the state of social service programs and the adoption agencies.

 

[Jiro]

What kind of logic is this? You can injure yourself too. Is this your scientific outcome? It doesnt mean the fetus functions in a way that injures the host. Its not fetuses natural behavior.

I asked you a question, you didnt answer. Let me repeat.. Are you sure an organism carries your very own DNA, created in you and growing in a place designed to support it in your own body can be called parasite?

Are you also sure the body treats the fetus as a parasite? Do you really have any scientific facts showing , human body consideres and reacts to its own fetus as a parasite?

actually yes. It has happen before. I believe Jillio can answer that. I'm sure she's heard of medical cases that mother's own body viewed the fetus as intruder and attacked it.

 

[jillio]

actually yes. It has happen before. I believe Jillio can answer that. I'm sure she's heard of medical cases that mother's own body viewed the fetus as intruder and attacked it.

Absolutely. It happens all the time. A simple example would be the case of difficulties in preganacy caused by Rh incompatibility.

 

[KarissaMann05]

No, dear, it is very obvious that you don't have a clue. What I claim can be substantiated and is a widely accepted viewpoint. It is the one on which the laws were formed, and you have absolutely nothing to refute it.

We are not discussing your situation here, because when you bring it up, and it gets discussed, you get overly emotional and unreasonable.

A fetus aborted at 5 months does not survive on its own because it is incapable of doing so. Nor is 5 months gestational age the third trimester. Infact, if you want to get specific, you need to cite the gestational age in weeks, not months.

Actually no. Today, there are very a few babies COULD survive outside of the womb at the second term.

I don't mind to bring some links. That would be fine with me.

 

[Hermes]

then why show us pictures and come up with fallacious statement like - why don't you go and touch it? That doesn't sound like pro-choice. It makes me laugh when a person claim to be pro-choice but have a heavy pro-life view. Such a confused person....

It's as fallacious as a person saying "Don't want a baby? don't spread your legs."

I am sorry I do not fit into your categories Should I also get stamped and go pick myself a corner for being able to have my own thoughts? You are repeating me pro choice arguments everybody else repeating. I am giving you my own arguments.

The pictures are for you to see what you are aborting. It shouldnt bother you. Attending to an abortion operation is for knowing what really it is instead of making an academical argument about it.

What is wrong with facing with your own choice , if its really your choice? Why rationalize it? Isnt it better saying, this is what I choose, this is what I do, this is what I live with.

Why does it become a no-no when somebody suggest you to really see whats going on there? Because you choose not to see it right?

 

[Cheri]

Actually no. Today, there are very a few babies COULD survive outside of the womb at the second term.

I don't mind to bring some links. That would be fine with me.

Angel provide a link before about it, and that's been ignored by pro-choicers. Go figures.

 

[Hermes]

actually yes. It has happen before. I believe Jillio can answer that. I'm sure she's heard of medical cases that mother's own body viewed the fetus as intruder and attacked it.

There are cases body reacts to its own internal organs too. It doesnt mean internal organs naturally behave like parasites.

Is it the natural behavior of the fetus? It should be if you are going to catagorize fetus as parasite in general.

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[KarissaMann05]

Angel provide a link before about it, and that's been ignored by pro-choicers. Go figures.

Ahhh... Right, I forget about that. Okay, thanks for informed me. :|

 

[Hermes]

Absolutely. It happens all the time. A simple example would be the case of difficulties in preganacy caused by Rh incompatibility.

What is the desire of calling fetus a parasite while its really not acting like one? Do you believe there is a scientific consensus on this? Why dont you start a new thread and bring all the evidence there. This subjects just gets lost in this selective abortion thread.

 

[Jiro]

I am sorry I do not fit into your categories Should I also get stamped and go pick myself a corner for being able to have my own thoughts? You are repeating me pro choice arguments everybody else repeating. I am giving you my own arguments.

The pictures are for you to see what you are aborting. It shouldnt bother you. Attending to an abortion operation is for knowing what really it is instead of making an academical argument about it.

What is wrong with facing with your own choice , if its really your choice? Why rationalize it? Isnt it better saying, this is what I choice, this is what I do, this is what I live with.

Why does it become a no-no when somebody suggest you to really see whats going on there? Because you choice not to see it right?

Like I said again - why not do same for slaughterhouse? animal culling? wars? deforestation? It's fallacious. Just simply don't confuse yourself between pro-choice and pro-life stance. You cannot claim to support legalization of abortions when you preach of abortion horror. You can't have it both way.

I too have a small issue with abortion especially at late-term pregnancy. Religion should NEVER have a role in politics and there should be no Divine assumptions. I certainly don't wanna see women getting back alley abortions because somebody who believes in "God" says it's murder. But I am a consistent pro-choice with absolutely no problem with abortion. Apparently - some of you pro-choicers do have a problem with it.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Hey Hermes.. are you pro-life or pro-choice, or... you are a "pro-netural"?

You confused me, sorry.. ^_^;;

 

[Hermes]

Like I said again - why not do same for slaughterhouse? animal culling? wars? deforestation? It's fallacious. Just simply don't confuse yourself between pro-choice and pro-life stance. You cannot claim to support legalization of abortions when you preach of abortion horror. You can't have it both way.

I too have a small issue with abortion especially at late-term pregnancy. Religion should NEVER have a role in politics and there should be no Divine assumptions. I certainly don't wanna see women getting back alley abortions because somebody who believes in "God" says it's murder. But I am a consistent pro-choice with absolutely no problem with abortion. Apparently - some of you pro-choicers do have a problem with it.

I dont eat meat if you are asking me. I would say same thing for the wars.. Dont sit on your leather chair and make decisions on peoples faith. If you want war go and get blood on your hands (I am not saying it to you)

I can say keep abortion legal and show reality of it to people. I do not have to fall in one of two camps. I am not a by product of a certain thinking. I dont have to take existing sides and become the soldier of it. Pro life pro choice argument keeps on going for ages. Both sides arguments are already memorized. It shouldnt bother when my response doesnt fit into this theather already being staged.

If the abortion is really horrific after a certain point, it should be known. If it is not, then there is no problems anyway. The fact that you are blaming me for spreading horror indicates that, you also think it may be horrible.

I didnt say anything about religion. Defending abortion and choice for one's own political reason and trying to disregard real face of it is as wrong as saying no to abortion because of religious reasons unconditionally and forcing it onto other people.

If you gave people freedom but also showed them whats really going on, the numbers of abortion cases would drop, but people who really needs it would still have an access to it. I can see that many people here who are pro choice for political reasons have no intention to have an abortion when it comes to their own kids. They are just arguing with their political rival.

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[jillio]

There are cases body reacts to its own internal organs too. It doesnt mean internal organs naturally behave like parasites.

Is it the natural behavior of the fetus? It should be if you are going to catagorize fetus as parasite in general.

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Not the same concept medically. When the body attacks its own organs, it is an autoimmune problem, not the result of a parasite.

 

[jillio]

Actually no. Today, there are very a few babies COULD survive outside of the womb at the second term.

I don't mind to bring some links. That would be fine with me.

Yes, I would like a link to anything that indicates that a fetus between 1 and 20 weeks gestation has survived, and lived to tell about it, not just survived in an incubator hooked to machines for a few weeks and then died.

 

[jillio]

What kind of logic is this? You can injure yourself too. Is this your scientific outcome? It doesnt mean the fetus functions in a way that injures the host. Its not fetuses natural behavior.

I asked you a question, you didnt answer. Let me repeat.. Are you sure an organism carries your very own DNA, created in you and growing in a place designed to support it in your own body can be called parasite?

Are you also sure the body treats the fetus as a parasite? Do you really have any scientific facts showing , human body consideres and reacts to its own fetus as a parasite?

-

In some cases, the simple presence of an embryo functions in a way that is harmful to the host. Please inform yourself of medical and biological facts.

Miscarraige is the female's body rejection of and expulsion of embryonic and fetal material.

 

[Liza]

Should women be charged for involuntary manslaughter if they had a miscarriage?

 

[jillio]

I am sorry I do not fit into your categories Should I also get stamped and go pick myself a corner for being able to have my own thoughts? You are repeating me pro choice arguments everybody else repeating. I am giving you my own arguments.

The pictures are for you to see what you are aborting. It shouldnt bother you. Attending to an abortion operation is for knowing what really it is instead of making an academical argument about it.

What is wrong with facing with your own choice , if its really your choice? Why rationalize it? Isnt it better saying, this is what I choose, this is what I do, this is what I live with.

Why does it become a no-no when somebody suggest you to really see whats going on there? Because you choose not to see it right?

The pictures are of 3rd trimester fetuses without abnormalities. Those are not aborted in the 3rd trimester. If you want to show what is really being aborted, then show pictures of 3rd trimester abortions of grossly deformed fetuses that are incompatible with life. Or if you really want to be accurrate, show the pictures of same at 20-24 weeks in gestation, because that is when most of these abnormalities are detected and the abortions performed for that reason are done. Most elective abortions are performed within the first 6 weeks of gestation. Show the products of an abortion performed at 4 or 5 weeks gestational age. Then you will be giving an accurrate protrayal, rather than this not just misleading, but false, propoganda.

 

[Jiro]

I dont eat meat if you are asking me. I would say same thing for the wars.. Dont sit on your leather chair and make decisions on peoples faith. If you want war go and get blood on your hands (I am not saying it to you)

I can say keep abortion legal and show reality of it to people. I do not have to fall in one of two camps. I am not a by product of a certain thinking. I dont have to take existing sides and become the soldier of it. Pro life pro choice argument keeps on going for ages. Both sides arguments are already memorized. It shouldnt bother when my response doesnt fit into this theather already being staged.

If the abortion is really horrific after a certain point, it should be known. If it is not, then there is no problems anyway. The fact that you are blaming me for spreading horror indicates that, you also think it may be horrible.

I didnt say anything about religion. Defending abortion and choice for one's own political reason and trying to disregard real face of it is as wrong as saying no to abortion because of religious reasons unconditionally and forcing it onto other people.

If you gave people freedom but also showed them whats really going on, the numbers of abortion cases would drop, but people who really needs it would still have an access to it. I can see that many people here who are pro choice for political reasons have no intention to have an abortion when it comes to their own kids. They are just arguing with their political rival

Who said abortion is nice and easy? No harm done. Woman will just move on and not regret anything. everything's all forgotten.

It is, of course, a horrible experience and a horrible decision for woman to make. Point is - there is a choice available out there for a mother to decide regardless of reasons (because it's not our business). If she chooses it, I live with comfort knowing that that mother will have it done at the sterile clinic done by professionals. I live with comfort knowing that the mother does not have to pay excessive amount to some quack doctor or a vet in some dark back alley. Obviously she will have to live with this for rest of her life - something that we men can't intimately understand.

 

[jillio]

Angel provide a link before about it, and that's been ignored by pro-choicers. Go figures.

They were not fetuses with disabilites so severe as to be life threatening. Second trimester abortions are only legal for this reason, or due to the threat to life of the mother. Therefore, it does not apply. The fetuses aborted because of incompatibility with life would not have survived had they been carried to term. A normal fetus of course has a greater chance of survival at any point in a prgnancy.