Pros and cons of Oralism??

No offense, robbielynn, but I'm pretty sure that the members of this board have a grasp on the difference between ASL and SEE. Since the majority are Deaf, we as hearies should be learning from them, not the other way around.
robbielyn said:
I guess I am an unusual hearie. After all, I love and I mean love sign language. I loved SEE but now I am learning ASL and really superduper love ASL!! If I could communicate in ASL, and never needed english, I'd gladly switch. It's clear and simple yet grammatically intricate and very beautiful. If hearies could take the time to learn even the basics of ASL, they would then be convinced that ASL is a real language of it's own and not connected to english at all. I think due the fact true deaf have never heard speech, therefore they think in concepts versus words, that ASL should be their first language. Lets fill their basic need to communicate the easiest way they know how. ASL fits conceptual learning which is how deaf think. Ok, now they have hearing friends, and maybe want to be involved in the hearing world, start teaching them spoken language. I think if they have the capacity to learn words vs concepts, then help them. But be patient. Us hearies have a difficult time with ASL vs SEE why? Because we are thinking in words vs concepts so we struggle too with ASL. SEE is still word signs so it is much easier. SEE matches our linear thinking the same way ASL matches true deaf conceptual thinking. But hey Bilingual is a cool thing because in our country so many diffferent languages are spoken. ASL and Spanish should be taught in our schools as mandatory. But same for spanish kids. They should learn english because they live in an english speaking country. Hearing kids think sign language is cool because they can fingerspell secrets during class, so they wouldn't mind learning it. It's the hearing adults who have been prejudiced against ASL.(not all hearies of course). And since deaf live in the hearing world, they should have english as their second language for the chances of interacting with hearing is 100% guaranteed. But if it is too hard for them, then don't make it so demanding of them but encourage them and help them see how it would benefit them. I speak and read fluent english but I have to say I am a very visual and conceptual person. I understand ASL more clear than english. I have ADHD and there are holes in my processing of information that if you don't go from one thought process to another, it goes over my head. I think you can tell by the words I use, that I am not stupid(ie intricate). But I need more details than the average person. ASL is very detailed yet simply oriented. Say for example you are going to put me on a new computer program I have never used before. You know it like the back of your hand. It's so simple to you because you know the in's and outs. Maybe you are quick minded and are able to figure alot of things out, or when it is explained to you it just makes sense. Not me. I need you to take it one thing at a time, connect it to the next thing in relation to one another, and don't expect me to read between the lines. I need hands on training with simple explanations. Now say you are ASL and are explaining to me this new computer program in ASL. I would quickly grasp it so much faster. Because english to me is just words, it's hard for me to take something brand new and visualize what you are telling me. But with asl, the visualization is there for me, therefore I can understand. I know alot of hearing folks out there with the same problem. It's not that they can't learn, they can, but visualizing new things is difficult for them. I guess that is why I love ASL so much. Wow! I think I just made a discovery about the reason I love ASL. I knew I did, just didn't know why. Wow am I longwinded or what? :popcorn: ps. I think I would like to add to a thought at the beginning of my sermon(lol). I learned SEE and interpreted in SEE for a long time. Then the organization I belong to in the 80's switched over to ASL to help the deaf more clearly in their native language. (SEE is the same as spoken English. And true deaf can get very confused with SEE same as learning oralism.)For example if you are true deaf with no spoken language, if I sign SEE I went over to grandma's house, and then later I say. I am over it already, but use the same sign over the context is changed. that would confuse people. Now to someone watching ASL without knowledge, it looks like oversimplified broken english. I thought ASL was that too.) In fact I know a deaf woman who lost her hearing at the age of 22 and refuses to learn ASL. She is in the same organization as me and her husband has to interpret for her because she didn't make the switch. She can lipread good though. But I finally after many years decided I want to get more involved with the deaf I had better learn ASL. Wow I didn't know what I was missing. It's like learning all over again only better. Robbie

Geez, you're writing a novel...
No offense taken. I am not trying to teach anyone anything. I am merely expressing things I have learned and maybe there are a few brand new hearies on board. And as far as the novel is concerned, that is why I used the smiley with the popcorn lol. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to do that but my thoughts just kept flowing. Robbielyn :wave:
I grew up in the mentality of the "either or" proposition of either learning to be oral or middle ground. So, I represent the successful extreme of the oral approach (don't know sign worth squat). I have since in recent years come around to agree with Cheri (and others of the best of all worlds persuasion) that a middle ground is necessary and that having sign as a backup plan would be a good thing.
But signing with who? Might a better back up plan be some sort of communication device even if as simple as pencil and paper? Outside of the deaf community, who knows sign? I ask this out of ignorance.
Ummm... maybe I should clarify my interest in this subject.

My daughter knows sign, and will learn more. But she received her CI in May of this year, so she's learning speech too, even before that though she had picked up on lipreading because I'm in the habit of signing and speaking/mouthing already. (she can lipread no, wait, stop, and Alaurial :) ) She will continue to learn both signing and to speak. My question was plain curiosity that I was thinking of turning into a paper or speech for my schoolwork.

And to answer someone's question - yes the people and groups I ran into were completely against signing. I had one woman tell me over the phone that signing would impair her communication skills and leave her frustated. Long story for another post though!!
I had nothing at 6 years old. No language other than certain tones and pointing. No one is a mind reader then.

When I was put into Columbia deaf school, day one from 8 until 9 am monday I learned ABC, Numbers and couple new signs. Then told thats it for now, you will learn the rest of it soon. And running with 65 deaf in a dorm situation day and night, I learned everything by that friday.

Swear words, sex words and other forbidden words came in due time. There was no internet back then.

That language gave me my freedom. A way to communicate and live my life after a full set of school learning in both deaf and later hearing schools (Not by choice) made my way into the world as a trucker. Its what I understood best.

Oral. For me they assigned a Speed Pathologist several times a week for years in Columbia. She will repeat words. I repeat them by rote until I learned. Fairly soon I had english speaking. SOME DEAF did not. And others whose voices were unnatural chose not to use it. The doctrine in those days at Columbia by Dr David M Denton Superintendent was "Total Communication" Meaning you spoke and signed at the same time. Now you can imagine standard english signs with all of the punctuation and so on... what a mess. But we learned.

Thank god for ASL. If you can speak great.

To anyone who thinks that deaf should only use voice or such limitations should watch Children of a Lessor God Movie from the mid 80's That will change their thinking quickly.

IF you can do oral etc great. But its not that necessary. And for some with bad voices (Not by choice) its makes a situation worse among the hearing. For example to say the words to a stranger "Call Police" verbally might come out as GALLBOLIE Stranger would not know how to make of it.