Politically Correctness

[Reba]

Because a radioman does more than operate a radio.

It's all moot now anyway.

This is who they are:

"Information Systems Technician:

Formerly known as RM (Radioman). DP (Data Processing Technician) merged into the RM (Radioman) field in 1997. The CTO (Cryptologic Technician - Communications) rating was merged into the IT rating on 1 Mar 2006"

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=262


This is what they do:

http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/enlisted/rating_info_cards/it.pdf

 

[seb]

It's all moot now anyway.

This is who they are:

"Information Systems Technician:

Formerly known as RM (Radioman). DP (Data Processing Technician) merged into the RM (Radioman) field in 1997. The CTO (Cryptologic Technician - Communications) rating was merged into the IT rating on 1 Mar 2006"

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=262


This is what they do:

http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/enlisted/rating_info_cards/it.pdf

And it fits the various job descriptions better than lumping them all under the radioman moniker.

 

[seb]

you're not Deaf enough to understand. You broke a deaf etiquette rule. Don't condescend....

Your absolutely correct. As to deaf etiquette that is a huge problem in the deaf community, because they don't seem to realize that they live in a largely hearing world and unless they can act and can write as though they live in a hearing world they will continue to languish in a society that has a 72% unemployment rate. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the way it is. If you want to put or place the blame somewhere you have to put the blame on the school or schools that they attended that only prepared them to survive in the deaf world and not in the hearing one and unfortunately, the jobs are in the hearing world to the most part.

I didn't mean to be condescending, if I came off that way, I'm sorry, but I decided to point something out that I see time and time again on this site and thought the blanket approach would be better to correct one publicly rather than PM each person as these situations came up.

 

[Steinhauer]

You're absolutely correct. Regarding deaf etiquette, that is a huge problem in the deaf community; they don't seem to realize that they live in a predominantly hearing world, and unless they can act and can write as though they live in a hearing world, they will continue to languish in a society that has a 72% unemployment rate. Sorry to be looking down my nose, but that is the way it is, in my self righteous opinion. If you want to put or place the blame somewhere, you should probably learn where to place commas first, and then you can put the blame on the school, or schools, that they attended. These schools, in my self righteous opinion, only prepared them to survive in the deaf world, and not in the hearing one. Unfortunately, the jobs are in the hearing world for the most part.

I didn't mean to be condescending, if I came off that way, I'm sorry, but I decided to point something out that I see time and time again on this site. I thought the blanket approach would be better to correct one publicly rather than PM each person as these situations came up.

Ok, thanks for looking out for all of us deafies. What would we ever do on our own without people like you?

 

[DeafDucky]

If you want to put or place the blame somewhere you have to put the blame on the school or schools that they attended that only prepared them to survive in the deaf world and not in the hearing one

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

 

[Foxrac]

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

That's absolutely true.

I was in special education at hearing elementary school from K-5, but after finished 5th grade, my reading and math level were first grade, that's one of worst school that I attended.

It went up really quickly when I went to deaf school.

 

[seb]

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

I'm not blaming all deaf schools, just the ones who haven't provided their students with the skills to survive and work in the hearing world. Deaf schools, public schools or private schools, it doesn't make a difference, there are good ones and bad ones, just as there are good and bad teachers. It also doesn't make a difference if the child can hear or not if the school doesn't give their students the skills to survive they have failed in their obligation to their students, parents, community, etc. I taught in the public schools for five years(Industrial Arts) and had my share of special needs kids, some with IEP's and some without and it was amazing how many of these kids with IEP's never got what they were entitled to in their IEP because the school didn't have the money or the staffing to provide it. Good friends of ours had a son who went to school with our own son and he had numerous learning disabilities and his IEP was not being provided until our friends took the school district to court and they are still providing his special education that was called out in his IEP and he graduated from high school four years ago!

My kids attended a public elementary school that had a deaf HOH school on the site and all the deaf kids were mainstreamed for about half the school day. I never heard of any of the kids having problems in the hearing classrooms (I'm sure there were some) but over the years we had some of these kids who became friends with our kids at our house, a few on an almost daily basis and they seemed to be well adjusted and functioning quiet well in a hearing house. Perhaps they felt more comfortable at our house because both my wife and I are HOH and wear HA's but I still see a few of them who are now going to college and have jobs at several stores I shop at.

Funny thing is even with the 1975, ruling private schools and Catholic schools are private and can refuse to admit someone who is deaf, blind, etc. My friends son entered school in 1973, and they had to fight to get him into public school and mainstreamed. Also they had to pay for his speech therapy and any other resources he needed, which they did.

Yes, deaf kids as well as blind kids aren't like "normal kids" and they have their challenges in providing them with an education and getting them to the point that they can function in the everyday working world. For me when I was teaching and I did have a few deaf HOH students in my classes were the kids who were drug babies and had attention spans of 3 or 4 SECONDS! They were the students that were truly almost unteachable and dangerous in a shop setting.

 

[Jane B.]

It's all moot now anyway.

This is who they are:

"Information Systems Technician:

Formerly known as RM (Radioman). DP (Data Processing Technician) merged into the RM (Radioman) field in 1997. The CTO (Cryptologic Technician - Communications) rating was merged into the IT rating on 1 Mar 2006"

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=262


This is what they do:

http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/enlisted/rating_info_cards/it.pdf

I have not looked at the new lists but feel that a good deal of the back and forth over this came from Reba's military experience and the rest of us not having it. Thus she has knowledge of the "lingo" and forgets that most civilians don't know that "lingo"..

 

[Jane B.]

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

I think that it is right to come down harder on the deaf schools when their kids don't do well in the working world after school because after all the deaf schools are supposed to be the "experts in deaf education".

 

[Reba]

I have not looked at the new lists but feel that a good deal of the back and forth over this came from Reba's military experience and the rest of us not having it. Thus she has knowledge of the "lingo" and forgets that most civilians don't know that "lingo"..

No, I don't forget. That's the reason I go to the trouble of explaining what terms mean. If I were writing to Navy people it wouldn't be necessary to explain these things.

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

 

[shel90]

Seems you are trying to blame deaf schools solely for the 'lack of skills' or 'only preparing them to survive in the deaf world'... where in reality, mainstream and hearing schools also fail many deaf children/teens miserably. A post upthread even noted that the Catholic school refused to accept the deaf child because they didn't have the resources (meaning "we don't want to put forth the effort"). Same with the public school and ironically they SHOULD be providing services or at least an IEP for the deaf kid.

Funny thing... I went to public school until 6th, then Catholic from 7th to 12th. Pretty much the only deaf kid in both...those days (long before the 1975 ruling- at least in elementary school), there were no resources for deaf/HOH kids except speech therapy (boring as hell...lol). I was one of the very very few lucky ones who did well academically, but socially I was- well I did have friends and got along with everyone but I still felt miserable. Went to only one dance and that was sheer hell.

So... hearing schools aren't exactly preparing the deaf kids well enough for the hearing world and how to navigate with their unique problems. No hard of hearing (or deaf) kid is like a hearing kid- I finally figured that out by the time I reached college.

I work with deaf kids in a public school and I used to work at the Deaf school. I have to say that public schools are ill equipped to meet the needs of deaf children to adequately prepare them to go out in the hearing world. Too often, I see the deaf kids being isolated from the hearing kids while at the deaf school, the kids interact with anyone.

 

[Jezie]

This is going to gloss over a few of your post I hope you do not mind....

I agree that civilians need to stop tinkering with the military. Yet, the military does lead civilian lives in many ways. It was the military that accepted desegregation first, many clothing trends also come from the military, and even politically correctness comes from the military.
While political correctness has gotten out of hand, it is almost like people do not know when to stop after a ligament complaint has been solved.
While, I did not have the issue of having man in my rating (Aerographer's Mate/AG) we did have some objectionable codes that were taken out. For example, writing our observations or meter rain was coded as RA while drizzle/pellets was PE for the coding it would be with the four letters together forming a word. Thus, it was changed. Things like this I do not see as a bad thing. But, fighting about the spelling or forcing man out of everything does lose much in translation. But what middle ground can you see in this?

It's all moot now anyway.

This is who they are:

"Information Systems Technician:

Formerly known as RM (Radioman). DP (Data Processing Technician) merged into the RM (Radioman) field in 1997. The CTO (Cryptologic Technician - Communications) rating was merged into the IT rating on 1 Mar 2006"

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=262


This is what they do:

http://www.cool.navy.mil/usn/enlisted/rating_info_cards/it.pdf

 

[Steinhauer]

I work with deaf kids in a public school and I used to work at the Deaf school. I have to say that public schools are ill equipped to meet the needs of deaf children to adequately prepare them to go out in the hearing world. Too often, I see the deaf kids being isolated from the hearing kids while at the deaf school, the kids interact with anyone.

100% agree

And they are ignored in the workforce too.

 

[dogmom]

Jane, in relation to your post #47 I can see your perspective on the terms.
I grew up with feminism and views to challenge stereotypes and norms....I also was not raised religiously so I was free to decide how I felt about religion and spirituality, so upon becoming involved in the synagogue during college and as an adult, I had no prior conception to try and change. I'm not monotheistic anyway, so regardless of the more inclusive prayer books at my synagogue, they are still reflective of the Jewish monotheism, so in my head as I look at the text I change the wording still to fit my belief system.

 

[Jane B.]

What I have run across in some printed Christian hymns that I find really awkward is when they print a hymn that was written as mankind but print it as humankind. So often it loses all "flow" when the change is made. I am not sure if there are any in our current hymnal where this has been done; we have not sung any that do in a long time. When we have it may have been a copy from somewhere else.

I am old enough that I grew up with some of the older forms that still just seem natural to me just from being used to it. For example mankind, meaning a human rather than literally a man rather than a woman, is one of them. And humankind seems contrived to me in a number of places it has been used.

Is the post I quoted here the correct one that you are referring to?

Jane, in relation to your post #47 I can see your perspective on the terms.
I grew up with feminism and views to challenge stereotypes and norms....I also was not raised religiously so I was free to decide how I felt about religion and spirituality, so upon becoming involved in the synagogue during college and as an adult, I had no prior conception to try and change. I'm not monotheistic anyway, so regardless of the more inclusive prayer books at my synagogue, they are still reflective of the Jewish monotheism, so in my head as I look at the text I change the wording still to fit my belief system.

What bothers me about many of the corrections is (not just for hymns or something religious) what happens to the "flow" (for lack of a better description) when it is changed from the way it was written to something that is the current PC version.

 

[Cappy]

100% agree

And they are ignored in the workforce too.

I dare say, we are ignored by our family and extended family too. No one wants that awkward moment during mis-communication. So, its avoided.

 

[dogmom]

Jane- yes...

for me, since I didn't have a "before- the way it was written- before" versus "now" - no bother.

my perspective comes too from my experience with social change, as a very young child.....my mom was on a textbook committee, she reviewed K- <Kindergarten> through high school materials to see if there were pictures and texts showing both boys and girls playing sports, dealing with kids, being active and athletic....if there were people of color as main figures/leaders and doing various jobs. She would ask if I wanted to help. This was probably between the ages of 8 and 13. So I looked for examples of these things, as well as for problems.

So I was very used to the idea of looking at something beyond what it was, thinking how it could be changed.

 

[Jane B.]

Jane- yes...

for me, since I didn't have a "before- the way it was written- before" versus "now" - no bother.

my perspective comes too from my experience with social change, as a very young child.....my mom was on a textbook committee, she reviewed K- <Kindergarten> through high school materials to see if there were pictures and texts showing both boys and girls playing sports, dealing with kids, being active and athletic....if there were people of color as main figures/leaders and doing various jobs. She would ask if I wanted to help. This was probably between the ages of 8 and 13. So I looked for examples of these things, as well as for problems.

So I was very used to the idea of looking at something beyond what it was, thinking how it could be changed.

But haven't you ever run across anything that you were familiar with where the latest version just doesn't seem to fit because of what was changed in an effort to be PC. A matter of where a one word change just doesn't fit together right with the rest of the sentence. I am thinking of the times when it would flow together better if the whole sentence was rewritten rather than try to change one word form to be PCc.

 

[dogmom]

Honestly - no. I've run across certain PC terms that I think are silly in and of themselves, as I originally mentioned. But haven't come across a term that was once "that" and is now "this" that it bothers me enough that I think it rubs me the wrong way or changes the flow of something.

I tend to be very flexible and divergent in my thinking, some of this may also come from having LD.

 

[TinCanSailor]

Update on the Navy rating changes:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ditching-seaman-title.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm