Parants of CI children.

[dreama]

Thanks for clarifying.

Your welcome.

 

[dreama]

That makes sense. The teachers focused too much on her oral skills rather than on her as a whole person with feelings?

That's right.

 

[Daredevel7]

I think you guys would be surprised how much of a difference it makes when you grow up in a world where people don't expect much from you vs a world where people expect too much from you. Oral only seems to be the latter. Someone (I think deaf dyke) said that MOST deaf people are mainstreamed/oral only. I actually am surprised by this statistic. Is there evidence of this somewhere? I really thought most deaf people went to residential schools.

 

[dreama]

I know. That's b/c you have a healthy sexuality. But trust me.....a lot of girls and guys who are screwed up emotionally, think this way.
I don't really see how someone would think that way either......but it's just a hypothesis. You have to admit that MANY dhh kids have significent interpersonal relationships. Some of them as a result may be SO screwed up that they turn to prosistution or other not desireable activities b/c they are so marginalized.

I can see how that can come about. If you regularly get punished without knowing what you've done then you do develop a really low self esteme. I've been there myself.

 

[dreama]

I think you guys would be surprised how much of a difference it makes when you grow up in a world where people don't expect much from you vs a world where people expect too much from you. Oral only seems to be the latter. Someone (I think deaf dyke) said that MOST deaf people are mainstreamed/oral only. I actually am surprised by this statistic. Is there evidence of this somewhere? I really thought most deaf people went to residential schools.

I think neither is really healthy.
When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's their was just a choice of mainstream and oral or Mount school for the deaf (where signing was used) where you weren't even expected to do exams at the end.

What we really need is reasonably high expectations but with sufficent signing back up at a preschool level for ALL LEVELS OF ABILITY. I think that would be best.

After all if a HOH kid gets signs and they genuinely don't need them it doesn't hurt them.

But if a Deaf or HOH kid doesn't get signs and it turns out they can't do speech that does hurt them.

 

[shel90]

I think neither is really healthy.
When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's their was just a choice of mainstream and oral or Mount school for the deaf (where signing was used) where you weren't even expected to do exams at the end.

What we really need is reasonably high expectations but with sufficent signing back up at a preschool level for ALL LEVELS OF ABILITY. I think that would be best.

After all if a HOH kid gets signs and they genuinely don't need them it doesn't hurt them.

But if a Deaf or HOH kid doesn't get signs and it turns out they can't do speech that does hurt them.

especially the last part.

 

[Bottesini]

I think you guys would be surprised how much of a difference it makes when you grow up in a world where people don't expect much from you vs a world where people expect too much from you. Oral only seems to be the latter. Someone (I think deaf dyke) said that MOST deaf people are mainstreamed/oral only. I actually am surprised by this statistic. Is there evidence of this somewhere? I really thought most deaf people went to residential schools.

That was long ago. The state schools are getting less and less students for many years as public schools get local deaf programs.

 

[deafdyke]

It's about oral education and the way they will promote oral successes. Even if the person they are promoted has problems understanding basic conversations. It's ok I suppose if they can speak.

GOOD POINT!!!!! Notice how on the oral deaf ed site, they don't define what "sucess" is..............that could mean anything from being able to speak a handful of words to having a high verbal IQ and everything in between.
I do know that the research indicates that dhh kids in general have low verbal IQs. Verbal IQs measure mastery of language.
Daredevil, only about 20% of dhh kids attend res schools. I think that's very sad b/c I think that's a very underutilized resource.

 

[shel90]

That was long ago. The state schools are getting less and less students for many years as public schools get local deaf programs.

And that's a shame. No thanks to LRE.

 

[Hear Again]

Shel,

What is LRE? <confused>

 

[Hear Again]

I can see how that can come about. If you regularly get punished without knowing what you've done then you do develop a really low self esteme. I've been there myself.

So have I dreama. I was physically, emotionally and sexually abused for reasons I do not know yet I didn't resort to prostitution nor do I have poor self esteem. I learned how to rise above my traumas and not allow the crap my parents threw at me and a stranger who threatened my life affect me emotionally. Granted, not everyone is strong enough to do that, but many are and do not resort to dangerous, irresponsible behavior. Just because someone has poor self esteem or was raised in a bad environment doesn't mean they're going to engage in reckless behavior. Many of these individuals turn out to be fine young men and women who are well respected members of their community.

 

[deafskeptic]

So have I dreama. I was physically, emotionally and sexually abused for reasons I do not know yet I didn't resort to prostitution nor do I have poor self esteem. I learned how to rise above my traumas and not allow the crap my parents threw at me and a stranger who threatened my life affect me emotionally. Granted, not everyone is strong enough to do that, but many are and do not resort to dangerous, irresponsible behavior. Just because someone has poor self esteem or was raised in a bad environment doesn't mean they're going to engage in reckless behavior. Many of these individuals turn out to be fine young men and women who are well respected members of their community.

Like Hear Again, I come from a background that's similar to her but I never turned to prostitution. While I didn't face much physical abuse or sexual abuse, it did happen to me. There is a great deal of emotional abuse in my background though. I've never turned to drugs though I did run into problems with booze but I took care of it before it turned into a serious drinking problem 20 years ago. I rarely drink nowadays though I'm not a teetotaler.

 

[shel90]

My cousin who was never abused by her father and her stepmom (my aunt) but was abandonded by her mother when she was 5 and that left lasting negative effects on her. She started using drugs and then turned to prostitution to support her drug habit.

I think Dreama's point was that this girl had emotional issues from her bad background that needed to be addressed but instead, it appeared that they were ignored for the sake of oralism and as a result, they manifested to a point where she turned to prositution. That's my understanding. I have seen that happen to many children...their emotional needs got ignored.

 

[rockdrummer]

That was long ago. The state schools are getting less and less students for many years as public schools get local deaf programs.

Right but the deaf programs at public schools don't equate to oral only. The program my child attends doesn't focus on speech. In fact speech therapy for my child is only 1 hour per week. I would imagine that the deaf programs at the public schools will vary. At my child's IEP I even tell them that speech should not be a top priority. For the most part, I believe he is in a good program with decent teachers. I see his grades are good and slip only when they raise the bar then he comes up to speed. He is advancing and he is a happy kid and we get better at communication as time goes on. It's not optimal but that is because we are all still learning. It is a slow process. I can see how deaf kids from deaf parents who are native signers will learn language faster. Hearing parents can't just snap their fingers and become proficient at sign language. It's just not that simple.

 

[rockdrummer]

So have I dreama. I was physically, emotionally and sexually abused for reasons I do not know yet I didn't resort to prostitution nor do I have poor self esteem. I learned how to rise above my traumas and not allow the crap my parents threw at me and a stranger who threatened my life affect me emotionally. Granted, not everyone is strong enough to do that, but many are and do not resort to dangerous, irresponsible behavior. Just because someone has poor self esteem or was raised in a bad environment doesn't mean they're going to engage in reckless behavior. Many of these individuals turn out to be fine young men and women who are well respected members of their community.

I agree and believe I am a case in point. The troubles I went through with my childhood could have turned me out to be much worse. I was on a path to destruction. I think the ability to raise above can be smothered out by things such as drug addiction etc. but I also believe that people have the ability to be the masters of their own destiny regardless of their past. I am no expert but I would say ones ability to raise above and take control really depends on what type of person they are and how much fortitude they posses. Everyone is different and no two people will end up the same even under the same circumstances.

 

[Hear Again]

Even if a handful of deaf or HoH adults who were raised oral turn to prostitution because of their upbringing, it does not account for the majority. dreama's post made an all encompassing direct correlation between oral education and prostitution which is what many of us are disputing.

 

[Bottesini]

Right but the deaf programs at public schools don't equate to oral only. The program my child attends doesn't focus on speech. In fact speech therapy for my child is only 1 hour per week. I would imagine that the deaf programs at the public schools will vary. At my child's IEP I even tell them that speech should not be a top priority. For the most part, I believe he is in a good program with decent teachers. I see his grades are good and slip only when they raise the bar then he comes up to speed. He is advancing and he is a happy kid and we get better at communication as time goes on. It's not optimal but that is because we are all still learning. It is a slow process. I can see how deaf kids from deaf parents who are native signers will learn language faster. Hearing parents can't just snap their fingers and become proficient at sign language. It's just not that simple.

Who said it did? Daredevel said she thought most deaf kids were in residential schools.

That started its decline in my day. I was responding to that one piece of information and not debating philosophy of education.

 

[rockdrummer]

Who said it did? Daredevel said she thought most deaf kids were in residential schools.

That started its decline in my day. I was responding to that one piece of information and not debating philosophy of education.

oh... sorry you misunderstood me. I was not trying to debate anything and only stating what I believe to be true and sharing my observations about my son's school. I seriously hope that something as insignificant as that really didn't decline your day. Please have a good day.

 

[shel90]

Right but the deaf programs at public schools don't equate to oral only. The program my child attends doesn't focus on speech. In fact speech therapy for my child is only 1 hour per week. I would imagine that the deaf programs at the public schools will vary. At my child's IEP I even tell them that speech should not be a top priority. For the most part, I believe he is in a good program with decent teachers. I see his grades are good and slip only when they raise the bar then he comes up to speed. He is advancing and he is a happy kid and we get better at communication as time goes on. It's not optimal but that is because we are all still learning. It is a slow process. I can see how deaf kids from deaf parents who are native signers will learn language faster. Hearing parents can't just snap their fingers and become proficient at sign language. It's just not that simple.

Right..not all deaf programs at public schools are oral-only. Fairfax County public schools in VA has a great BiBi Deaf Ed program. I just wish more states would adopt this kind of program.

 

[rockdrummer]

Right..not all deaf programs at public schools are oral-only. Fairfax County public schools in VA has a great BiBi Deaf Ed program. I just wish more states would adopt this kind of program.

You never know shel. Maybe one day. When I brought up bi-bi at my sons old school they looked at me like a dear in the headlights. There was another thing that I didn't like when one of his teachers (from a couple of years ago) told me that she doesn't know ASL. She only knew MCE's which I thought was odd for a teacher in deaf ed.