'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

Doug5 said:
You misconstrue what carrying a gun means. Its not about pretending to be Charly Bronson looking for trouble. Its about defending yourself and being WILLING to shoot.

Dumbest thing to do would be to pull out a gun and not use it. Then the criminal has a chance to take it away from you and kill you with it.

Jillio, your attitude of being passive and at the mercy of the criminal is naive. How is surrendering to the attacker and hoping they wont harm you a good idea?
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Nope, I am not naive at all. But those who think they are under constant threat certainly are.

I agree. I would never pull a gun without the intention of using it. However, I would also make sure that it was a situation that required that level of force to protect myself. Otherwise, permit or not, I could be charged with excessive force and murder.

I am not referring to passivity at all. I am talking about doing what is necessary to protect yourself without putting innocent people in danger and without killing another human being.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
You know what? You've dodged so many of my questions and not answered any of my refutations on this thread, other than to say, "my ranger friend/cop I met in store/video I watched on internet told me . . ." So, "for the sake of argument," I'm done answering your questions when you won't answer mine.

And lastly, all I said was "I am thinking about getting a shotgun for home defense." I haven't even made the decision yet. If and when I do, I will worry about the other things.
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What questions were they that I didn't answer?

Hurry before Mr. Potters finishes defecating at Starbucks before we head to Ulysess's to get stupidly drunk.
 
jillio said:
Nope, I am not naive at all. But those who think they are under constant threat certainly are.

I agree. I would never pull a gun without the intention of using it. However, I would also make sure that it was a situation that required that level of force to protect myself. Otherwise, permit or not, I could be charged with excessive force and murder.

I am not referring to passivity at all. I am talking about doing what is necessary to protect yourself without putting innocent people in danger and without killing another human being.
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Constant fear. Hypervigilantic. Paranoid. These are what you use to describe anybody with CCW permits.

Do you know who constantly put people in danger, wrongfully killed or hurt people on frequent basis that appears in newspaper all the time? Police officers.

As reba said, there are over 6 million CCW permits and probably over 20 million guns. Why is it that we don't hear about anything tragic relating to CCW?
 
Jiro said:
Constant fear. Hypervigilantic. Paranoid. These are what you use to describe anybody with CCW permits.

Do you know who constantly put people in danger, wrongfully killed or hurt people on frequent basis that appears in newspaper all the time? Police officers.

As reba said, there are over 6 million CCW permits and probably over 20 million guns. Why is it that we don't hear about anything tragic relating to CCW?
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Nope. Not any CCW carriers. Just some of them. And it's "Hypervigilant". We do hear about it. You just ignore it.
 
The problem is gun owners are all lump together and MM does not want the public to know the difference. Those who have a CCW permit have taken a background check and training class and it is rare that one has an accident. On the otherhand, those who purchase a gun without a background check (there are ways to do so) and have no training classes are a danger to all. MM, and posters here on AD, don't give a damn if there is confusion between the two. The idea is to use the irresponsible to make the responsible look bad.
 
rolling7 said:
The problem is gun owners are all lump together and MM does not want the public to know the difference. Those who have a CCW permit have taken a background check and training class and it is rare that one has an accident. On the otherhand, those who purchase a gun without a background check (there are ways to do so) and have no training classes are a danger to all. MM, and posters here on AD, don't give a damn if there is confusion between the two. The idea is to use the irresponsible to make the responsible look bad.
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Did ya read Reba's link regarding background checks?:lol:
 
jillio said:
I have presented them often.
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Not in this thread, you haven't. :cool2: I've been looking for them. You've made the claim repeatedly, but not once have you actually supported it with statistics.

I'm fairly open-minded and willing to change my opinions IF someone can show me facts (just saying something does NOT make it a fact) that prove my information is bad. I'm a numbers kind of girl: If you can show me the actual studies that shows that average gun owners are more likely to kill someone accidentally than use a gun to protect themselves, I want to know that. I consider that important to my decision making. So far, though, it's all just debate and no data. So whatcha got?
 
jillio said:
Nope, I am not naive at all. But those who think they are under constant threat certainly are.

I agree. I would never pull a gun without the intention of using it. However, I would also make sure that it was a situation that required that level of force to protect myself. Otherwise, permit or not, I could be charged with excessive force and murder.

I am not referring to passivity at all. I am talking about doing what is necessary to protect yourself without putting innocent people in danger and without killing another human being.
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how does carrying a gun put innocent people at risk? If the situation has deterioted to the point where the gun needs to come out, people are already at risk.

btw, the point of concealing a gun is so criminals dont try and take it away from you.

I dont understand what the point youre trying to make or why youre anti gun
 
jillio said:
Nope. Not any CCW carriers. Just some of them. And it's "Hypervigilant".
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some of them..... but you still support more gun restrictions for all because of "some of them"?

jillio said:
We do hear about it. You just ignore it.
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Ignore? let's not lie in here. I have asked you repeatedly for a link to news that described what you speak of. An innocent person being killed or hurt by CCW holder. A CCW holder putting people in danger for shooting in public.
 
jillio said:
Nope, I am not naive at all. But those who think they are under constant threat certainly are.

I agree. I would never pull a gun without the intention of using it. However, I would also make sure that it was a situation that required that level of force to protect myself. Otherwise, permit or not, I could be charged with excessive force and murder.

I am not referring to passivity at all. I am talking about doing what is necessary to protect yourself without putting innocent people in danger and without killing another human being.
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I'm so confused by such statement.... why would you even talk about that when you repeatedly said that you have no need to carry a gun? so you support CCW permit??? :confused:
 
deafskeptic said:
I don't think it's just you. I live in Virginia and according to OpenCarry, it's a gold star open carry. In all the years that I've lived in VA and NC (a traditional open carry state), I have seen exactly one person who wasn't a cop or solider openly carrying his gun and he was an old guy carrying a rifle in downtown Richmond many years ago.
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You, Jillio, and TheWriteAlex (formerly) live in gun-friendly states where CCW permit shall be issued.

So have any of you encountered any incident with a CCW holder? was your life ever put in danger by a CCW holder? were any of you hurt by CCW holder?
 
Jiro said:
You, Jillio, and TheWriteAlex (formerly) live in gun-friendly states where CCW permit shall be issued.

So have any of you encountered any incident with a CCW holder? were your live ever in danger by a CCW holder? were any of you hurt by CCW holder?
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They have penis envy Jiro.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Reba and Tousi can both answer your little word games themselves if they want. I won't answer for them.
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sure.

TheWriteAlex said:
I am disputing that you cannot adequately defend your home using a 16g or 20g shotgun. Your experts are interested in the most stopping power possible, with little regard for anything else. It would make sense that this is also your mindset. It's funny how you call me hostile and aggressive because of my words, but you're the one who would put other people, besides a burglar, in harms way by using more firepower than necessary. THAT is scary.
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using more firepower than necessary? then can you please tell me what is deemed "necessary" to you when it comes to home defense?

TheWriteAlex said:
Okay, so let's not quibble. :roll: Where did I say my foremost concern was the intruder's well-being? If someone wants to break into your home and is going to attack you or your loved ones, or steal your property, etc, you have a right to shoot the person and kill him if necessary. Please show me where I've said otherwise.
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ah... so since you've stated that I have a right to shoot the person and kill him if necessary... then is it fine with you if I use 12-gauge and 00 buck?

TheWriteAlex said:
Speaking of "intruder's well-being," you're the one who said shooting a burglar with birdshot would be cruel and inhumane:

So, you care about his well-being I take it?
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I believe anybody using birdshot with full knowledge of its ineffectiveness against intruder is sick and twisted. He wants to see him to suffer with excruciating pain.

FYI - Dick Cheney accidentally shot Harry Whittington and his face was peppered with birdshot pellet and he survived.

When you shoot, you are shoot to kill. Gun is designed to kill a man... not to torture people. If you want to shoot but you do not want to kill him, then why don't you just use a tazer or bear pepper spray? or shotgun with beanbag? or crossbow? or baseball bat? or a german shepherd?

TheWriteAlex said:
I may be "hostile and aggressive," but you are not much better than a liar at this point. Your verbal trickery, which is pretty easy to locate, really gives clues into your type of personality: dishonest.
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so you're saying my assessment on your mindset is correct?
 
To answer some questions in this thread - I wouldn't ever think of trying to defend myself with some 20 gauge shotgun. That selection would be the very last thing on my mind when picking out a gun for self defense.

One of my reasoning? My grandfather accidentally shot himself with a 20gauge. Then drove himself to the hospital.
 
PoiToy said:
Not in this thread, you haven't. :cool2: I've been looking for them. You've made the claim repeatedly, but not once have you actually supported it with statistics.

I'm fairly open-minded and willing to change my opinions IF someone can show me facts (just saying something does NOT make it a fact) that prove my information is bad. I'm a numbers kind of girl: If you can show me the actual studies that shows that average gun owners are more likely to kill someone accidentally than use a gun to protect themselves, I want to know that. I consider that important to my decision making. So far, though, it's all just debate and no data. So whatcha got?
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I love numbers too. However, in this case, it's going to be hard to quantify the number of times that gun owners "used a gun to protect themselves". Even if a number was posted, people are just going to say "Oh, I bet there's a lot more that went unreported to the police. I know someone who ___fill in the blank___"

The number of accidental deaths (especially for kids) can be easily quantified (and easily found through Google) but people will just say "How many of those guns were recklessly unlocked? I bet the parents didn't even teach the kids, etc etc. Improve gun safety!" Basically, if someone accidentally gets killed, it's the stupidity of this gun owner and all gun owners feel like they should not be punished for the stupidity of this particular guy.

So, do you still want the numbers?
 
jillio said:
So, do you? And if you feel you are so frightened of a grocery store in a bad area of town at 1 a.m., find another grocery store and a different time to do your grocery shopping. People should not be put at risk just because you are afraid.
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keep your mind closed and ask more questions. :roll:

If hell broke loose, it comforts me that my family will have higher chance to survive. Criminals love anti-gun folks, easy target.




I knew that I shouldn't have gone in this thread, so Im out.
 
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