Obama's Legacy

[rolling7]

Not all religions have a one-person head or leader.

Exactually

 

[Jiro]

If they are not, then tell us all why the Muslims do as the Ayatollahs and Imams proclaim, especially jihad on the kafir.

where? specifically who?

Why don't you stop playing games and just post whom it is you think is the head of Islam.

are you admitting that you don't know?

 

[rolling7]

I'm admitting that you are hiding begins you questions. Stop playing games.

Going back through history, all the way back to the beginning of Islam, the faithful have engaged in war at the command of the Ayatollah and Imams.
They are even willing to kill a cartoonist on command if they get a chance
They follow the command of what women can/can't wear, if women can/can't drive, if men must/can't wear a beard, what is allow in the movies, what is allow on TV, what is allow on the internet, etc. If you did not know this, you are showing your ignorance.

 

[Jiro]

I'm admitting that you are hiding begins you questions. Stop playing games.

I'm teaching you how to be factual and credible in whatever you claim. You keep making lot of broad statements with no supporting facts.

Going back through history, all the way back to the beginning of Islam, the faithful have engaged in war at the command of the Ayatollah and Imams.
They are even willing to kill a cartoonist on command if they get a chance
They follow the command of what women can/can't wear, if women can/can't drive, if men must/can't wear a beard, what is allow in the movies, what is allow on TV, what is allow on the internet, etc. If you did not know this, you are showing your ignorance.

please state the names. who said what exactly? there are many ayatollah and imams.

and are you telling me that no ayatollah and imams have condemned against jihads, terrorists, and Osama bin Laden?

 

[rolling7]

My supporting facts are my life experience.
If you want historical facts, contact DC....she is the history major.

 

[Jiro]

My supporting facts are my life experience.
If you want historical facts, contact DC....she is the history major.

really? so you were there at the beginning of Islam?

is your birth date on your ID card in roman numerals?

 

[rolling7]

What was DC's reply to your questions?

 

[Jiro]

What was DC's reply to your questions?

why are you making us do your homework? I see that it's just much more convenient for you to make a blanket statement than to make a specific statement. you know you can admit to me if you don't know who said exactly what.

nah. it's just easier to hate and blame than to engage in problem-solving talks.

you made a claim. you have to back it up with some facts. now finish what you start.

 

[rolling7]

The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims...Andrew G. Boston

The Shade of Swords.....M.J. Akbar


Islam at War: A History.......George Nafziger, Mark Walton, Laurent W. Mbanda

At War with Whom......Jonathan Schanzer



Happy Reading and hold all your questions until you read them all. Then you will have all the answers to your questions.

 

[rolling7]

BTW: I do not hate nor blame the Muslim people....just the leaders.

 

[Jiro]

BTW: I do not hate nor blame the Muslim people....just the leaders.

who exactly?

 

[Jiro]

The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims...Andrew G. Boston

The Shade of Swords.....M.J. Akbar


Islam at War: A History.......George Nafziger, Mark Walton, Laurent W. Mbanda

At War with Whom......Jonathan Schanzer

Happy Reading and hold all your questions until you read them all. Then you will have all the answers to your questions.

lol what's the point of me reading them? we both know I will arrive at much different conclusions than yours and I believe I can say with a higher degree of certainty that my conclusions would be more sound and disciplined than yours. You've already demonstrated confusion, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge in this matter because you could not even give me a few names of who said what and you thought Ayatollah and Imman are heads of Islam.

Beside - I don't need to read them when there are already facts out there that would dispute your claims such as Osama bin Laden's deep regret for defiling Allah (this was from a few declassified documents retrieved from his hideout compound in Pakistan and more will be declassified and shown to public at later date) and Muslims' international condemnation against terrorists in the name of Islam.

Osama bin Laden, a lion in winter - The Washington Post

Bin Laden begins by recalling the glory days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks when his al-Qaeda mujaheddin were “the vanguard and standard-bearers of the Islamic community in fighting the Crusader-Zionist alliance.”

But the al-Qaeda leader turns immediately to a bitter reflection on mistakes made by his followers — especially their killing of Muslims in Iraq and elsewhere. The result, he said, “would lead us to winning several battles while losing the war at the end.” Bin Laden ruminated on the “extremely great damage” caused by these overzealous jihadists. Not only is the organization’s reputation being damaged, he noted, but “tens of thousands are being arrested” in Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

plus.... in July 2005, Grand Ayatollah Sistani, Grand Imam of al-Azhar Seminary Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, and several other important Muslim leaders have signed documents that harshly condemned Osama bin Laden and 9/11 attack and they also issued fatwas proclaiming the duty of Muslims to fight alongside Americans in Afghanistan against al-Qaeda.

homework for you - Ali Eteraz: The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror

 

[rolling7]

And you consider them as head of Islam?

I knew it!...I knew it!......I knew it!
Based on your above post you were playing games.....above you are acknowledging that the Ayatollah and Imam are the head of Islam.

 

[Jiro]

I knew it!...I knew it!......I knew it!
Based on your above post you were playing games.....above you are acknowledging that the Ayatollah and Imam are the head of Islam.

better re-read my post very carefully. They are ranked below the positions I stated in my post.

What you're telling me is like this - Vice President is same as President. Archbishop is same as Pope.

 

[rolling7]

better re-read my post very carefully. They are ranked below the positions I stated in my post.

What you're telling me is like this - Vice President is same as President. Archbishop is same as Pope.

So........the president dies...who is the new president
So.....the pope dies...who is the new pope
Same old, same old

 

[Jiro]

So........the president dies...who is the new president

Vice President will be called the President.

So.....the pope dies...who is the new pope

somebody will be called the Pope

Same old, same old

yup except where you got everything completely wrong about Islam because what you're telling me is like this - Vice President and Archbishop are same as President and Pope.

so let me educate you for free - Ayatollah and Immans are not the heads of Islam. Imman is equivalent to Priest. Ayatollah is equivalent to Bishop. However, neither titles are considered as "heads of Islam".

Islam does not have the hierarchy system that Catholic church does. In Islam, those positions like imman, ayatollah, and Sheik represent the level of respect and knowledge they have. The higher your rank is, the more knowledge and respect you have among Muslim population. There are no "sects" in Islam but only different interpretations.

The highest rank in Islam which is equivalent to Pope is called Caliphate but unfortunately... it was killed off during Ottoman Empire back in 1920's. Since then.... there is no head of Islam. only dozens of leaders with their own groups with their own interpretations. Most are peaceful and few are misguided and violent.

So we have some immans who have extreme anti-American view and they called for jihad against Americans. However, several very high-ranking Islam figures like Grand Ayatollah and Grand Imman have harshly condemned Osama bin Laden and 9/11 attacks and also called for fatwa against infidels who perverse Islam religion to justify violence and deaths.

 

[rolling7]

Vice President will be called the President.


somebody will be called the Pope


yup except where you got everything completely wrong about Islam because what you're telling me is like this - Vice President and Archbishop are same as President and Pope.

so let me educate you for free - Ayatollah and Immans are not the heads of Islam. Imman is equivalent to Priest. Ayatollah is equivalent to Bishop. However, neither titles are considered as "heads of Islam".

Islam does not have the hierarchy system that Catholic church does. In Islam, those positions like imman, ayatollah, and Sheik represent the level of respect and knowledge they have. The higher your rank is, the more knowledge and respect you have among Muslim population. There are no "sects" in Islam but only different interpretations.

The highest rank in Islam which is equivalent to Pope is called Caliphate but unfortunately... it was killed off during Ottoman Empire back in 1920's. Since then.... there is no head of Islam. only dozens of leaders with their own groups with their own interpretations. Most are peaceful and few are misguided and violent.

So we have some immans who have extreme anti-American view and they called for jihad against Americans. However, several very high-ranking Islam figures like Grand Ayatollah and Grand Imman have harshly condemned Osama bin Laden and 9/11 attacks and also called for fatwa against infidels who perverse Islam religion to justify violence and deaths.

This is the second time you have mention the Grand Ayatollah and Grand Imam with Ians bin Laden. I'm glad you have. But when is any Islam leader, Grand Ayatollah, Grand Imam, or anyone, going to issue a fatwa that all Muslims live in peace with Israel and not try to write the Israelites off the face of the earth? You know very well that this is the goal if the Muslim Brotherhood and others within Islam.
Until these leader act responsible and remove all indications that that Islam is anything but totally peaceful were it come to the Israelites, there will always be hostility, and possible war, in the name of religion.

 

[rolling7]

The end of this matter.....time to get back on topic, Obama' Legacy
Start a thread on Islam of you wish

 

[Jiro]

This is the second time you have mention the Grand Ayatollah and Grand Imam with Ians bin Laden. I'm glad you have.

good. I hope you get it right this time.

But when is any Islam leader, Grand Ayatollah, Grand Imam, or anyone, going to issue a fatwa that all Muslims live in peace with Israel and not try to write the Israelites off the face of the earth?

actually - the question is... when will Israelis stop bombing, bulldozing, and harassing Arabs? and exactly which one is trying to wipe Israelis off the map? It goes both way.

You know very well that this is the goal if the Muslim Brotherhood and others within Islam.

huh? who? got a link? and what about Zionists?

Until these leader act responsible and remove all indications that that Islam is anything but totally peaceful were it come to the Israelites, there will always be hostility, and possible war, in the name of religion.

but.... Israelis are the one with superior firepowers, tanks, bulldozers, guns, fighter jets, cluster bombs, etc. and Arabs? just some rocks. so why is it that only Arabs are the aggressor in here and not Israelis?

 

[rolling7]

Start a new thread on Islam, if you wish.
This one is about Obama and the big messes he is making.