Obama Embraces 'Death Panel' Concept in Medicare Rule

rockin'robin

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During the stormy debate over his healthcare plan, President Barack Obama promised his program would not "pull the plug on grandma" and Congress dropped plans for death panels and "end of life" counseling that would encourage aged patients from partaking in costly medical procedures.

Opponents of Obama's plan, including former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, dubbed such efforts as "death panels" that would encourage euthanasia.

But on December 3rd, the Obama administration seemingly flouted the will of Congress by issuing a new Medicare regulation detailing -- "voluntary advance care planning" that is to be included during patients' annual checkups. The regulation aimed at the aged "may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment," The New York Times reported.

The new provision goes into effect Jan. 1, 2011 and allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death. Critics say it is another attempt to limit healthcare options for the elderly as they face serious illness.

Incoming House Speaker John Boehner said during the healthcare debate that, “This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia.”

Specifically, the measure was known as Section 1233 of the bill passed by the House in November 2009. It was not included in the final legislation, however. It allowed Medicare to pay for consultations about advance care planning every five years. In contrast, the new rule allows annual discussions as part of the wellness visit.

Elizabeth D. Wickham, executive director of LifeTree, a pro-life Christian educational ministry, told the Times was concerned that end-of-life counseling would encourage patients to forgo or curtail care, thus hastening death.

“The infamous Section 1233 is still alive and kicking,” Ms. Wickham said. “Patients will lose the ability to control treatments at the end of life.”

The rule was issued by Dr. Donald M. Berwick, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, according to The New York Times. He is a longtime advocate for rationing medical procedures for the elderly.

Before being tapped by Obama to his Medicare post, Berwick had long applauded Britain's National Health Service, which uses an algorithm to determine if the aged are worthy of additional expenditure for medical care and advanced treatments.

Berwick has argued that rationing will have to eventually be implemented in the U.S, stating, “The decision is not whether or not we will ration care. The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open.”

Seniors appear to be a major target for precious resources under the Obama healthcare plan. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Obama plan cuts nearly $500 million in Medicare benefits to seniors as the federal government adds 30 million uninsured Americans to private and public health care systems.

The cost of caring for the elderly has not been lost on Berwick.

“The chronically ill and those towards the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here… there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place,” he said.

During the heated healthcare debate, supporters of the Obama vigorously denied rationing for seniors would take place and scoffed at "death panel" critics like Palin.

Last month, however, economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman told ABC News that rising Medicare costs could only be dealt with by "death panels and sales taxes."

He added: "Medicare is going to have to decide what it's going to pay for. And at least for starters, it's going to have to decide which medical procedures are not effective at all and should not be paid for at all. In other words, it should have endorsed the [death] panel that was part of the healthcare reform.’"



Obama Embraces 'Death Panel' Concept in Medicare Rule
 
A lot of people are going to be uncomfortable with this, and really, I can understand why. My take on it is ...Be careful. On the one hand, this sounds very alarmist in nature, but, I can attest that things can go horribly wrong if people aren't vigilante. I had an experience back in 2006 when I was very ill and recovering from surgery. Previous to this surgery, I had signed a Living Will that basically stipulated if I wasn't able to make decisions for myself and were gravely ill, I wanted to stop treatment. No IV meds, IV fluids, no ventilator, you get the picture....

Well, historically, I've always dropped my blood pressure as I'm coming out of the anesthetic. They said to someone that they hadn't given me enough fluids in the recovery room, and, I should drink. Well, I couldn't because, I was sleeping off the anesthetic. As a result, my pressure dropped VERY low! I was very difficult to wake up, and, it was kinda scary. We tried to get the nurses to get an order for an extra bolus of fluid to be given to me, but, they were lazy about it. One nurse said..."She has low blood pressure, anyway, right?" Instead, the Dr wanted to DISCHARGE ME. Long story short, my Mom ended up calling the nurses station, and, an order was finally written for fluids. My pressure stablized, barely, and I WAS discharged.

I ended up being OK, but, this illustrates something very important. If you have a living will, you should make your wishes KNOWN; especially, if they are counter to what the LW states! Had my Mother not been in their faces about it, and gotten a simple Dr's order for IV fluids, I might not be here today.
 
um.... completely misleading :lol:
 
Disproven over a year ago. People are digging up dinosaurs now and trying to get people to believe this crap again.:roll: How in the heck to people think that the government is going to overlook the concept of autonomy? This stuff is absurd.
 
um.... completely misleading :lol:

Disproven over a year ago. People are digging up dinosaurs now and trying to get people to believe this crap again.:roll: How in the heck to people think that the government is going to overlook the concept of autonomy? This stuff is absurd.


I take issue with the tone of the article as well. My take on it, though, is be careful (like I said in my first post). BUT, I also think it's reactionary as well. The article points out that Medicare is being mandated to pay for COUNSELING someone on end of life issues. What's wrong with that? Not a danged thing. Why? A person can always refuse. They can refuse treatment, but, they can also refuse to go along with a Dr's advice as well. So, yeah.... This article is reactionary at best. But, the lessons of it should NOT be so easily dismissed. Like I said in my first post, things CAN AND DO happen, so, I don't think it's complete hogwash.

The whole message to this SHOULD be to be informed and have someone watching your back if you're not able to be in charge of your own medical care and decisions.
 
Very misleading article indeed.

"But on December 3rd, the Obama administration seemingly flouted the will of Congress by issuing a new Medicare regulation detailing -- "voluntary advance care planning" that is to be included during patients' annual checkups. The regulation aimed at the aged "may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment"


Why would Medicare NOT pay for services that are considered life-saving? Because the patient SAID so. What "death" "panel"?

Who decides to live or die (in certain situations/as dictated by patients will)? The patient.

Medicare may or may not keep certain procedures because A) they're unneccessary B) some doctors may bias their practice around it C) because of possibility b, some supplies are rarer down the road and that could force Medicare to bump up overall prices again.

Exhibit A: Lasik.
 
two words: **** Obamacare

It has screwed me out of an operation that was greatly needed because "I didnt need it"

Told me I cant even get insurance because my illness isnt bad enough (Last I heard NF2 was pretty serious), but told me if I was female or a new citizen i would be eligible.
 
two words: **** Obamacare

It has screwed me out of an operation that was greatly needed because "I didnt need it"

Told me I cant even get insurance because my illness isnt bad enough (Last I heard NF2 was pretty serious), but told me if I was female or a new citizen i would be eligible.

You have Medicare and not private or other government insurance?

This question could be irrelevant-the changes made in Medicare do impact profits of private insurers. Point is, I'd rather see people get treated and pay higher taxes for it.

Ok, I think I just opened floodgate :run:
 
I cant get medicare. and I can not find a personal insurance that covers my pre-existing condition

Currently I have no insurance

Seriously??? That's bs about either situation... I mean what are you supposed to do? rob a bank?:mad: If you're in CA you'll get the treatment even if you fail. (Prison health care is paid for by state taxpayers)

So who paid for your insurance before the obamacare changes?
 
Seriously??? That's bs about either situation... I mean what are you supposed to do? rob a bank?

So who paid for it before the obamacare changes?

Up until I was 19 I was on CSS(childrens special service's)
at 20 they kicked me off and for the last two years I have been without insurance (minus dental and vision). Currently they are getting sued
 
Up until I was 19 I was on CSS(childrens special service's)
at 20 they kicked me off and for the last two years I have been without insurance (minus dental and vision). Currently they are getting sued

What about getting onto your parents' insurance...same answer? (too risky?)
 
What about getting onto your parents' insurance...same answer? (too risky?)

Well my mom's work insurance is where the dental/vision comes from. They denied to cover my pre-existing condition

and my dad passed away(RIP) from NF2 in 2001
 
Well my mom's work insurance is where the dental/vision comes from. They denied to cover my pre-existing condition

and my dad passed away(RIP) from NF2 in 2001

When did they deny it?

I don't know much about the new rules about eligibility in the obamacare legislation, so hopefully you can get re-instated. :hmm:

"love thy neighbor."
 
Most recently I was denied in September. But I have been denied a number of times (like 15 times). Thats why I have a lawsuit going right now. They think I am trying to get insurance for my deafness but I am trying to get it because I have NF2 (seems like Tennessee government doesnt know what it is)
 
Most recently I was denied in September. But I have been denied a number of times (like 15 times). Thats why I have a lawsuit going right now. They think I am trying to get insurance for my deafness but I am trying to get it because I have NF2 (seems like Tennessee government doesnt know what it is)

What a bunch of clowns! I wonder what definitions (source) they're going by? Where I work, there's a few "official" "terminology" companies. Each year, there's usually a new edition for each company. Add in a couple thousand health codes and measures....:yuck:.

I hope you can get that straigtened out.
 
I cant get medicare. and I can not find a personal insurance that covers my pre-existing condition

Currently I have no insurance

Seriously??? That's bs about either situation... I mean what are you supposed to do? rob a bank?:mad: If you're in CA you'll get the treatment even if you fail. (Prison health care is paid for by state taxpayers)

So who paid for your insurance before the obamacare changes?

I'm having a hard time swallowing this as well. The reason being, you could qualify for Medicaid. Also, SOME insurances are REQUIRED to consider you; even with a pre-existing condition. One of the things Obamacare did was do away with the pre-existing clause that most insurances have. I'm not a fan of Obamacare as a WHOLE, but, I AM glad that the pre-existing clause is not having the affect it once did.
 
I'm having a hard time swallowing this as well. The reason being, you could qualify for Medicaid. Also, SOME insurances are REQUIRED to consider you; even with a pre-existing condition. One of the things Obamacare did was do away with the pre-existing clause that most insurances have. I'm not a fan of Obamacare as a WHOLE, but, I AM glad that the pre-existing clause is not having the affect it once did.

You can not believe me if you want but I am currently in the 5 month of my lawsuit against the government over this. They treated my father and oldest brother the same way. They finally stepped up once it was too late. And Im not letting that happen to me

And FWIW medicaid told me I do not qualify. and I have been turned down buy every insurance I have ever contacted, they all will give me insurance but will not cover my pre-existing medical condition.
 
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