Newbie...not HoH but Interested

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aspiecat

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Hi all,

I hope I've come to the right place - I am sure I have. I looked through several threads to see what was what, then decided to register.

My hearing is fine. Well, it's a bit skew-iff after a few years of working in a noisy environment, and it's not as good as my husband's (I'm always saying to him, "Damn your Vulcan hearing!"), but it's fine.

So why am I here? Well, I homeschool my son, who's 14, and I'd like him to learn sign language for his Foreign Language credit. I've discovered the two main routes to take are ASL and SEE. Then SEE is split into two "factions", as it were. I have also found out the difference between ASL and the SEEs is mainly the former is considered a foreign language, the latters a transliteration of English. I know it's probably more complicated than that, but at the moment, that's the important thing concerning my decision.

My DS has Asperger's, which makes me think Signed Exact English would be best, so he doesn't have the added stress of translating to a different grammar system, which would come with ASL. However, I think ASL is the only language that is accepted by colleges for a high school Foreign Language credit - is that right?

I don't think he would use this in any real capacity - he's never met someone who is hearing impaired, apart from and great-grandparents (and that is a different issue altogether) - yet nor would he be likely to use French, which we just started last week, in any real capacity.

I hope I am not sounding offensive, because I really do not mean to be that way. I realise that most hearing people here learn sign language for reasons that go past "learning for minimum college entry". So I apologise for anything I have said that has insulted the wonderful world of signing.

Any advice would be great.

Aspiecat
 
I have a ASD and I don't see any confusion in signing ASL.

If you want him to have it for a foreign language requirement, ASL should not present any more confusion than any other language.

Would you insist he learn Chinese in English order with English characters?
 
Bottesini said:
I have a ASD and I don't see any confusion in signing ASL.

If you want him to have it for a foreign language requirement, ASL should not present any more confusion than any other language.

Would you insist he learn Chinese in English order with English characters?
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Fair question. However, I wouldn't insist he learn Chinese (prob. Cantonese) with English characters, as I the only foreign languages I know are French, German, Spanish, Old English and Middle English. :aw:

Joking aside, it's simply to ease his way through the Foreign Language part of his homeschooling, as my husband used the computer programs he learned in HS for his Foreign Language credit (he's VERY persuasive LOL), so DS is learning two computer coding languages as well.

I didn't know about SEE until today, and just thought that he might find it a better "fit" than ASL. I'm not opposed to him learning ASL, as he learns foreign languages with ease, but it is more a matter of lessening the workload overall for him. That's all.
 
aspiecat said:
Fair question. However, I wouldn't insist he learn Chinese (prob. Cantonese) with English characters, as I the only foreign languages I know are French, German, Spanish, Old English and Middle English. :aw:

Joking aside, it's simply to ease his way through the Foreign Language part of his homeschooling, as my husband used the computer programs he learned in HS for his Foreign Language credit (he's VERY persuasive LOL), so DS is learning two computer coding languages as well.

I didn't know about SEE until today, and just thought that he might find it a better "fit" than ASL. I'm not opposed to him learning ASL, as he learns foreign languages with ease, but it is more a matter of lessening the workload overall for him. That's all.
Click to expand...
See is a manually coded English. It is the same language he already knows.
 
aspiecat said:
Hi all,

I hope I've come to the right place - I am sure I have. I looked through several threads to see what was what, then decided to register.

My hearing is fine. Well, it's a bit skew-iff after a few years of working in a noisy environment, and it's not as good as my husband's (I'm always saying to him, "Damn your Vulcan hearing!"), but it's fine.

So why am I here? Well, I homeschool my son, who's 14, and I'd like him to learn sign language for his Foreign Language credit. I've discovered the two main routes to take are ASL and SEE. Then SEE is split into two "factions", as it were. I have also found out the difference between ASL and the SEEs is mainly the former is considered a foreign language, the latters a transliteration of English. I know it's probably more complicated than that, but at the moment, that's the important thing concerning my decision.

My DS has Asperger's, which makes me think Signed Exact English would be best, so he doesn't have the added stress of translating to a different grammar system, which would come with ASL. However, I think ASL is the only language that is accepted by colleges for a high school Foreign Language credit - is that right?

I don't think he would use this in any real capacity - he's never met someone who is hearing impaired, apart from and great-grandparents (and that is a different issue altogether) - yet nor would he be likely to use French, which we just started last week, in any real capacity.

I hope I am not sounding offensive, because I really do not mean to be that way. I realise that most hearing people here learn sign language for reasons that go past "learning for minimum college entry". So I apologise for anything I have said that has insulted the wonderful world of signing.

Any advice would be great.

Aspiecat
Click to expand...

Ok, I was going to let this thread take its course and see what happens, but I feel compelled to put my 2 cents in. . . Here it goes. . .

A person interested in signing should realize that ASL is NOT an interpretation of another language, (hence, WHY its a foreign language). SEE is most likely used to interpret to the hearing impaired an important document where each specific word can ensure the full content of this contract/document/permit/license. . . Whatever legal document. SEE is used when studying the emphasis of English sentence structure.

Of course, from someone who has fine hearing, SEE would make perfect sense because its the word order you are used too. But as you are ‘signing’ in english word order, It is very limiting because english word order of subject-verb-object LOOKS more confusing in a language that is intended to be VISUAL and SPATIAL. Yes, ASL has its own word order and rules because its meant for a visual language. The syntax of ASL does NOT make sense when reading or saying it outloud which is why it sounds complicated and confusing because english is a vocal language.

Here is something I must add beside the fact that I too am HEARING. I am absolutely terrible in foreign language. So terrible, that I can’t even speak my parent’s language. I don’t even understand it. Also, english is NOT mainly spoken at home, and I actually have the nerve to say to my parents to translate in english for me because they often forget I don’t understand. Everyone wonders WHY I can’t even speak or understand it. Trust me, I don’t know why either. And I have tried with great urgency to pick up my whole family’s language. . . BUT, to me ASL is not complicated at all. (If I am this terrible and still learn how to sign, you can too.) For someone still learning, I tend to fall into PSE more than SEE. But from PSE, I can continue to practice and wean off of it and warm into ASL. But SEE, you’ll constantly feel restricted to sticking to proper english and won't let you exercise the part of the brain to think "conceptually" --speakers of sign language communicate through concepts, not words.

Why do hearing people find ASL to be a beautiful language? The hearing don’t even need to know what they are signing and it looks beautiful. BECAUSE its expressive, open, direct, and allows room for creativity. A lot of the signs are not necessarily “words” but concepts. Concepts put into common gestures and motions that YOU have done, yet didn’t know it was ASL. (i.e. Write, book, pull, push, take, carry. . . ).

Here’s another opinion that could possibly be biased on my part. When you open up to the language, of course you’ll learn about the culture, you’ll notice that the deaf are more here than the average French men. The Deaf are regular people that go to baseball games, shop at the mall or grocery store, the person you walked by down the street. You don’t know because that’s not what you are looking for. You may not “meet” one, but I know you have seen them. The only difference is if you are willing to seek them out and USE the language. I believe that you have a higher chance at using ASL, than French. (Unless you go to France?)

If you chose SEE as a convenient route to get the foreign language credits, don’t do SEE. Study ASL, because it’s actually a foreign language. Don’t rob his education because you think SEE will be easy to teach in homeschool because its already in english word order. [Honestly, English is complicated in its own way as well.]

I hope this doesn’t come offensive to you. I am HEARING and just wanted to share my perspective on how I view this language that I respect and appreciate.

. . . OH. :wave: And welcome to AllDeaf.com. Really, I hope I didn’t stub on your toes. This forum is friendly and welcoming. You’ll find all the help you need here if you have any questions.
 
Thanks for the responses. I am aware of the difference between ASL and SEE (I already discovered that ASL is regarded as a foreign language, and SEE is one of many "codes" for English). I just wonder if SEE would be a better fit for my son than ASL, given their inherent differences. I am not opposed to DS learning ASL - as I said, he learns foreign languages quickly.

I don't want to cause issues in this forum, nor to give the impression I am trying to give my DS an "easy out". I am just looking for objective advice as to which might be best fit for my son.

Again, I am sorry if I have offended anyone. From some of the threads I have read, it seems to be a touchy subject, this "ASL vs SEE" topic. I certainly do not wish to cause any problems. The first response I got made me very nervous that I might be unwittingly doing that.

I have Asperger's myself and do not get online social clues very well at all, so it might be best if I do not stay in this community forum, in case I brush people's fur the wrong way.

Once more, I apologise.

Aspiecat
 
aspiecat said:
My DS has Asperger's, which makes me think Signed Exact English would be best, so he doesn't have the added stress of translating to a different grammar system, which would come with ASL. However, I think ASL is the only language that is accepted by colleges for a high school Foreign Language credit - is that right?

Aspiecat
Click to expand...

I know both ASL and SEE (I haven't used SEE in decades).

Since both you and your son have Aspergers, I actually think ASL would be a better fit.

SEE is basically intended for teaching Hard of Hearing and Deaf students English literacy in the classroom - it doesn't really make a lot of linguistic "sense" outside of that environment. SEE isn't "easier" to use or learn, because it's very awkward and artificial - it attempts to take a spoken language and make it "fit" somehow on the hands.

ASL, being a true language and one that's native environment/use is on the hands (versus speech/paper) etc "makes sense" visually. It uses space, movement etc in logical ways to explain concepts like time, tense, order of importance, physical spaces etc. I know a number of people who have learned ASL who are hearing and have various challenges such as Aspergers/Autism, Down's Syndrome etc - all of them have said that ASL "makes sense" to them, while SEE is just awkward (which it is).

I'd go the ASL route - even if you aren't perfect with the grammar, attempt to use it. ASL gives you the options of getting involved with other homeschoolers and various groups who also are learning ASL. ASL may well end up being a way that allows your son to grow and express himself in a way he might now otherwise discover (and would be impossible to discover using SEE).
 
Hi welcome I'm pretty new here my self. My mom home schools me and am learning ASL as my foreign language, too. I am enjoying it very much. I want to work with deaf youth when I get older, so it is kind of necessary I learn ASL! Lol! But any ways, welcome!

Sent from my XT907 using AllDeaf App mobile app
 
Staaaay. Please.

As for figuring online social clues, that is everyones weakness because you can't read emotion and expression through a monitor. Nobody is offended we are trying to explain the differences of apples and oranges as a LANGUAGE.

We are only trying to shed light to this. I was only answering in what you asked. . . Is if it will be "fit" for him because he has Aspergers and if SEE will lessen the workload because he doesn't have to learn another form of rules and grammar.

But if you want to consider communication, Since he has Aspergers, learning ASL gives him more room and leniency for expression with communication. My intent was to explain the restriction of SEE with the use of a linear vocal language.

I recommend you look into PSE to understand it. It's more of a transition from English into ASL. Verses using and keeping only with SEE. PSE isn't an official language but a natural transition a English-first-language person adapts till they are used to ASL. Sometimes I don't realize I start signing PSE, but someone who is fluent in ASL will still understand what the message I am trying to convey. SEE has somewhat different signs than ASL.

English is my first language. Learning a new language will take struggle till you are familiar with it. That's in any language.

Please stay. We want to help you understand. And this is the right place to get the answers you are looking for.




Sent from my iPod touch using AllDeaf
 
Agree with them, please stay. Share your thoughts with us.


I was born profoundly Deaf. I was taught with SEE for many years in my early childhood. I had a really hard time with writing. I could not able to write while I signed in SEE. I did not understand the concept with English. In my late teen years, I was introduced to ASL. I started picking up English while I signed in ASL and understand better and know how to write better. That is so bizzare!
 
Try asl with him and see how he functions, he may as others find its eaiser than english. And as you stated he seems to like or do well with foreign language... The big determinate will be is he visual oriented and logical. Or more auditory based. As all other languages are auditory based ( speaking and listening came before writing) in asl its visual so if he really needs to subvocalizw he might struggle with it . As some things dont have an auditory equivilente.

I actually find thats my biggest problem with asl in that i cant think visually well, i am auditory based so asl is difficult and fingerspell never works since i cant seem to "see" it.

If he did well with english he will with see save for the physical use of hands and the doing stuff visually instead of through audution as it is as its name signed exact english ( well unless he cant bridge taking it visually that what is english). < if thats the case then asl is better, at least reAl language and he will still have the problem either way and maybe less fingerspell and awkward signs

Though curious you mentioned he tried other languages, why not those he already has experience if this is for the credits requirement. No need to start anew again. Though i feel thats the obvious statement which you already know.


Enviado desde mi iPad con AllDeaf
 
aspiecat said:
. I certainly do not wish to cause any problems. The first response I got made me very nervous that I might be unwittingly doing that.

I have Asperger's myself and do not get online social clues very well at all, so it might be best if I do not stay in this community forum, in case I brush people's fur the wrong way.

Once more, I apologise.

Aspiecat
Click to expand...

Really? That was me. From your forum name, I assumed you could actually appreciate a purely factual response.

These days I usually just stay away from trying to tell newbies anything since they don't understand my manner.

I better just follow that policy.. :(
 
Hi I am 13 and my mom is deaf so I know how to sign Im home schooled and am looking to make some friends while signing.
 
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