National ID card

SmileyGin said:
http://nonationalid.com/


What do you think?
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A waste of taxpayers' money and a flagrant invasion of privacy. Of course, with the GOP in power, why is that surprising? That's practically their party platform.

That said, the comment that this is a sign that the Apocalypse of John is coming true is just stupid. Whoever came up with that should be sacked.
 
I wouldn't be surprised it will happen one day like this in our future. It will violate people's rights to privacy. It could cause civil war.
 
Teresh said:
A waste of taxpayers' money and a flagrant invasion of privacy. Of course, with the GOP in power, why is that surprising? That's practically their party platform.
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If you use that argument, then shouldn't it also apply to Social Security Numbers? They were originally meant just for the Social Security Administration, but they are being used as a de facto national ID as far as I'm concerned.
 
And it shouldn't be, Rose. The company I work for just lost a bunch of employee's SSNs, including possibly mine. A relative of mine is dealing with a skip tracer - you know, a debt collections agency - that has a debtor with the same first and last name. When he pointed out that his middle name was different, they stopped using the middle name in their correspondence; imagine what they'd do if they ever got their hands on his SSN.

The SSN is a bad, bad, idea for many reasons, not least of which is that it is in no way cryptographically secure (look up "one way hashes" if you want an example of something that could be done to improve the system). It's used both as an identifier, which doesn't have to be secure (and really can't be secure) and as a verifier/authenticator, which *ought* to be secure.
 
ismi said:
And it shouldn't be, Rose. The company I work for just lost a bunch of employee's SSNs, including possibly mine. A relative of mine is dealing with a skip tracer - you know, a debt collections agency - that has a debtor with the same first and last name. When he pointed out that his middle name was different, they stopped using the middle name in their correspondence; imagine what they'd do if they ever got their hands on his SSN.
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Someone may have lost SSN's belonging to my relatives...it ticks me off pretty badly.

About your relative dealing with the collections agency, have you considered reporting the agency's behavior to the Federal Trade Commission? Back when I was in college, I got a harassing phone call from one myself, and they kept trying to get my SSN out of me and treating me like I was automatically guilty because I wouldn't give it. I called my father, and he basically called them and threatened to report them to the FTC, and the harassment stopped. I don't know if it would work in your case, but it could be worth looking into.

The SSN is a bad, bad, idea for many reasons, not least of which is that it is in no way cryptographically secure (look up "one way hashes" if you want an example of something that could be done to improve the system). It's used both as an identifier, which doesn't have to be secure (and really can't be secure) and as a verifier/authenticator, which *ought* to be secure.
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Even the one-way hash technique looks like it could be beaten. Would it be Orwellian to suggest a biometric identifier instead? That might be harder to forge or for the wrong person to use even if they had an idea of what your fingerprint or iris looked like.
 
Rose Immortal said:
Even the one-way hash technique looks like it could be beaten. Would it be Orwellian to suggest a biometric identifier instead? That might be harder to forge or for the wrong person to use even if they had an idea of what your fingerprint or iris looked like.
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It's not perfect, but it's an improvement. Example: if a database with everyone's login data is stolen, you can't get the password out of that, because the password has been hashed. Geek though I am, I'm not naive enough to think that there's any way to get the majority of the population to use public key encryption and signing, which would be truly secure. Among other reasons, everyone would have to have at least basic computing resources ...

Biometrics is tricky. It is pretty easy to forge a fingerprint with stuff you can get at home - gummy bears, gelatin (non-flavored Jello), cyanoacrylate (superglue) and similar can be used to make a fingerprint sleeve for your hand, as long as you have a sample fingerprint (which is easy to get). Iris technology would be better, but it's still relatively simple to falsify, and it's expensive to install. Beyond that, though, it's not really changeable. If someone gets their hands on stuff you've touched, they have all your fingerprints; you only have 10, after all, and you can't change it ... same with your iris.
 
ismi said:
...Biometrics is tricky. . . your fingerprints; you only have 10, after all, and you can't change it ... same with your iris.
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Also, double amputees have no fingerprints, and some people, thru birth defects or accidents or disease, have no irises.
 
Rose Immortal said:
If you use that argument, then shouldn't it also apply to Social Security Numbers? They were originally meant just for the Social Security Administration, but they are being used as a de facto national ID as far as I'm concerned.
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I remember when I got my first SS card. It stated that it was NOT to be used for identification. Later, after I married and got a new card, that sentence was gone!

When I first enlisted in the Navy, we were given military service numbers. Later, we had to convert our service numbers to SSNs.

When I first started college, we were assigned student numbers. Then, during my senior year, the student numbers were dropped and the SSNs were used.

I think there is a pattern of converting all kinds of account numbers and IDs to the SSN.

Last week, Hubby and I each got letters in the mail from the VA (Veterans Administration). Our personal data and SSNs were among those included in the recent theft of veterans' data from the worker who took those files home.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/vets.data/index.html
Grrrrr! Now we have to be extra diligent about identity theft, thank you very much.
 
Reba said:
I remember when I got my first SS card. It stated that it was NOT to be used for identification. Later, after I married and got a new card, that sentence was gone!

Last week, Hubby and I each got letters in the mail from the VA (Veterans Administration). Our personal data and SSNs were among those included in the recent theft of veterans' data from the worker who took those files home.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/vets.data/index.html
Grrrrr! Now we have to be extra diligent about identity theft, thank you very much.
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Reba, what was the sentence on the old SS card?

Yeah, the university decided to changed from SS# to college ID # recently. I am glad that I dont want to show my SS# to anyone or business...
 
Reba said:
Last week, Hubby and I each got letters in the mail from the VA (Veterans Administration). Our personal data and SSNs were among those included in the recent theft of veterans' data from the worker who took those files home.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/vets.data/index.html
Grrrrr! Now we have to be extra diligent about identity theft, thank you very much.
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Oh ugh!!! Identity theft is a pain in the ass!!!
 
Mookie said:
Reba, what was the sentence on the old SS card?..
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I don't have my original card but I asked Hubby if he still has his. He does, and here is the sentence:

"FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES--NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"
 
I am disagreeing with National Card is because government can control everybody's life that can be leading to 666 as beast of the world. 666 can control everybody's life no choice -- can't avoid it once a person does not want 666 on hand or forehead.. That means 666 knows everything about you and people's life. I am against 666!
 
Throwstones said:
I am disagreeing with National Card is because government can control everybody's life that can be leading to 666 as beast of the world. 666 can control everybody's life no choice -- can't avoid it once a person does not want 666 on hand or forehead.. That means 666 knows everything about you and people's life. I am against 666!
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If you are a born-again Christian, you will be raptured to heaven before the Beast takes control, so you have nothing to worry about.

The Bible tells us about the end times events. The events will happen--we can't stop them. We just need to be ready for the rapture, and to spread the Gospel as much as possible while we still have time.
 
Reba said:
I remember when I got my first SS card. It stated that it was NOT to be used for identification. Later, after I married and got a new card, that sentence was gone!

When I first enlisted in the Navy, we were given military service numbers. Later, we had to convert our service numbers to SSNs.

When I first started college, we were assigned student numbers. Then, during my senior year, the student numbers were dropped and the SSNs were used.

I think there is a pattern of converting all kinds of account numbers and IDs to the SSN.
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Yes, and I don't think it's right--especially since record-keeping technology is so much better these days! There's no need for a one-size-fits-all number like that.

Last week, Hubby and I each got letters in the mail from the VA (Veterans Administration). Our personal data and SSNs were among those included in the recent theft of veterans' data from the worker who took those files home.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/vets.data/index.html
Grrrrr! Now we have to be extra diligent about identity theft, thank you very much.
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Yeah, I heard about that...I know a veteran who got one of those letters. Very sad!!

Oh, and good points on the biometrics stuff. I toss ideas out there a lot of times but I'm not always dead-set on them. And I still don't have my mind made up, but it was interesting to consider those things. :)
 
Reba said:
If you are a born-again Christian, you will be raptured to heaven before the Beast takes control, so you have nothing to worry about.

The Bible tells us about the end times events. The events will happen--we can't stop them. We just need to be ready for the rapture, and to spread the Gospel as much as possible while we still have time.
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Reba, yes you are right that we are born again Christian and won't worry about 666 because we will be gone with Jesus through rapture or die!
 
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