My name is Tomer, bilateral CI with problems.

[Crickets]

Oh yes it is. Very much so.it can be used in more enviroments, it doesnt need any arrificial power, no maintinence, no doctors, no drills, no wires, it costs almost nothing.to aquire save your effort and time...doesnt need.to be replaed. It is very much a superior technology. In every way shape and form.

Technology is something people use every day. Do you use electricity? A phone? A computer? Watch TV? Do you have central heating in your home (instead of a wood stove)? Do you cook your food on an electric or gas stove or in a microwave? Do you use a refrigerator? Do you use a washing machine to wash your clothes? Do you drive a car or walk everywhere you want to go? That's all based on technology, too.

All those other surgicsl procedures you mention sre not targeting deaf babies to change them into hesring onea, and strip them of there culture by denying them their language. Sign.
Tell you what. The minute mutlinational cochlear inplant.conpanies stop targeting deaf babies with there frankensien tech, will be the minute i shut up about sign bieng a superior technology and how signwill indeed set you free?
i wouldnt hold your breath..

This thread isn't about babies and cochlear implants. This thread was started by a grown man who had been using a cochlear implant for 17 years. The issue of cochlear implants being used for babies is completely separate from adults choosing to get cochlear implants for themselves.

Has worked for me just fine....deafies are all over, further now with the net and cell phones its allot easier. i dont buy your b.s. all it is is frankly bieng lazy..

What "b.s." don't you buy? According to statistics at gallaudet.edu http://libguides.gallaudet.edu/content.php?pid=119476&sid=1029190 about 2.1% of the population is deaf. According to this page of statistics at gallaudet.edu as of about 30 years ago (the last time fairly good measurement was done) http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php a much smaller percentage of people actually use ASL. Even if the number of people who use ASL has quadrupled in the last 30 years, still only about 1% of the population would be considered "good" at using ASL to communicate.

You can find peoplw who use asl. We are all over, once you learn it yiu csn teach others arouns you. oh that. Too much effort i Get it.

You know other people who use ASL because you need to use it to communicate with other Deaf people. But Deaf people are not "all over." I'm 50 years old, have lived in a few different cities in different states, went to college, and have worked all my life in either business or education, and I have never personally met anyone who was Deaf or who communicated mainly with sign language. People who use ASL well enough to communicate well with it make up a tiny percentage of the population. Most people who are hoh or late-deafened aren't going to spend months or years learning ASL so that they can talk to the 1% of the population who uses it to communicate, because it doesn't make sense, especially if no one in that 1% lives near them.

It seems like many Deaf people congregate in a few cities where there are Deaf schools or universities, and if hoh or late-deafened people don't happen to live near one of those Deaf "hubs" then there's a good chance that, like me, people may go their entire lives without ever meeting a Deaf person.

Cant you see its not just about the end user. Cochlear implants are not just about if you can listen to ozzy osborn and have a good time. For every succsesfull implant, that money goes into companies who.are pushing these things on deaf babies, by cohersion and in even some nations governments r now forcing them. Along with this these companies.push that these babies do not get exposed to sign sobthey do not revert back to bieng deaf. Your just comminf across as a first world person un aware or not concerned that others r greatly effected by oir neat fancy toys...most of which come from awful womrring conditions. But as long as the first world gets our kicks...who the the hell cares right. As long as you can hear, deaf babies and sign be damned.
Got it.
You need to become aware there is . History with this techbology. Yiu need to be aware for every succsesfull implant and maricle stories, there is one less baby being exposes to sign, our language, our culture is direcly effected in a negative way by your support of these things. Then again no suprise. These multinational companies Come. by it honesty. We deaf are looked as defective. In need of a cure. So every dsmn chance i get, ill offer the bwtter technology...oir sign

Hearie have used it its for everyone. its just allot more money in drilling holes in babies heads then.in promoting the superior technology
Sign

Again, this thread has nothing to do with making babies get cochlear implants. No one in this thread has said that they support babies being implanted with cochlear implants. This thread was started by a man who had questions about cochlear implants he has had for 17 years. If you want to talk about babies and cochlear implants, then go start your own thread about that.

Your posts show that you are only interested in telling people that they should learn ASL and not use cochlear implants, without consideration for what is best for their situation, and without paying attention to what they are saying.

 

[BleedingPurist]

Again, this thread has nothing to do with making babies get cochlear implants. No one in this thread has said that they support babies being implanted with cochlear implants.

I do! I do!

Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be Hoichis arguing with poor language (and reasoning) skills how ASL will free them to limit their communications to a mere fraction of the world population... strike that.. a mere fraction of the American population.

For all the screeches of Audism, there is a whole hell of a lot of ethnocentrism going on here. The world is a complicated and varied place. If you've found something that works for you, that's awesome. Have the maturity to recognize the difference between what works for you and what will work for someone else with very different circumstances. We are all deaf to some degree, but the reality is we are not all the same and that is something that a number here fail to grasp. We all have different backgrounds, different experiences with our hearing loss (or just plain being deaf without any loss having occured,) and different abilities.

What essentially happened in this thread was someone seeking other implant users who might have had similar experiences for support was met with "All you need is Jesus!"

 

[jollyrj]

I do not know how to sign personally but I want to learn. One thing that's been apparent to me is that it's not common place to automatically teach the deaf or the hearing impaired how to. In fact, when I was in high school, I volunteered to teach deaf children at a local grade school. They ONLY communicated via lip reading. Which was perfect because that's all I knew. They were taught to rely and communicate that way. I want to know both because I'm a huge advocate for "the more you know....".

 

[hoichi]

hoichi
If language is so easy to learn, how come you never learned to write in standard English?

I have not once claimed it was easy. Ive actually said the exact opposite. the drill is far easier.bargain then learning sign.so janeb why is your reading comprehension so lacking?

 

[BleedingPurist]

the drill is far easier.bargain then learning sign.so janeb why is your reading comprehension so lacking?

Learning sign and limiting your world to where large Deaf populations reside is far easier than living in the world at large and being able to interact with it fluidly.

 

[hoichi]

Technology is something people use every day. Do you use electricity? A phone? A computer? Watch TV? Do you have central heating in your home (instead of a wood stove)? Do you cook your food on an electric or gas stove or in a microwave? Do you use a refrigerator? Do you use a washing machine to wash your clothes? Do you drive a car or walk everywhere you want to go? That's all based on technology, too. g.

technology is not nuetral,if the technology you posted was having a negative impact on a peoples culture, and language, would you continue not to care? We have created allot of technology that has poisoned our planet, should we not care? Should we shut up as long as you get what ever you desire. . I am pointing out here to you, that the deaf, oir culture, our language we as a people are in the cross hairs of this technology that.these multinational companies who create this technology, view us as defective in need of a cure, in need of a solution.. That they target deaf babies for implants which i find monstrous. That these companies pay allot of money to convince, to coherce parents to allow this...with implanting babies comes preasure to not teach sign, to not allow the deaf baby to revert back to bieng deaf...this is what im pointing out to you. We are a minority culture, and this technology is not only threatening oir deepest and most charished treasures. Our babies and our language..

TThis thread isn't about babies and cochlear implants. This thread was started by a grown man who had been using a cochlear implant for 17 years. The issue of cochlear implants being used for babies is completely separate from adults choosing to get cochlear implants for themselves.g.

It is not conpletely seperate. It is the same multinational conpanies doing it. making huge profits. The more.grown adults get them and dont care, the more money these companies get, the more of our babies are targeted

T
What "b.s." don't you buy? According to statistics at gallaudet.edu http://libguides.gallaudet.edu/content.php?pid=119476&sid=1029190 about 2.1% of the population is deaf. According to this page of statistics at gallaudet.edu as of about 30 years ago (the last time fairly good measurement was done) http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php a much smaller percentage of people actually use ASL. Even if the number of people who use ASL has quadrupled in the last 30 years, still only about 1% of the population would be considered "good" at using ASL to communicate.



You know other people who use ASL because you need to use it to communicate with other Deaf people. But Deaf people are not "all over." I'm 50 years old, have lived in a few different cities in different states, went to college, and have worked all my life in either business or education, and I have never personally met anyone who was Deaf or who communicated mainly with sign language. People who use ASL well enough to communicate well with it make up a tiny percentage of the population. Most people who are hoh or late-deafened aren't going to spend months or years learning ASL so that they can talk to the 1% of the population who uses it to communicate, because it doesn't make sense, especially if no one in that 1% lives near them.

T
Again, this thread has nothing to do with making babies get cochlear implants. No one in this thread has said that they support babies being implanted with cochlear implants. This thread was started by a man who had questions about cochlear implants he has had for 17 years. If you want to talk about babies and cochlear implants, then go start your own thread about that.ng.

Again it has everything to do with, it is the same multinational profit driveN Corperations that are implanting grown men, and wee babies...
It has everything to do with it

T
Your posts show that you are only interested in telling people that they should learn ASL and not use cochlear implants, without consideration for what is best for their situation, and without paying attention to what they are saying.

Im interested in saving my people, our language, and our culture. Im interested in making sure people dont buy the propoganda and hype fed to them, hook, line and sinker by these multi national corps who are implanting deaf babies in record numbers.
I understand us deaf dont stand a chance against the billions of dollors these companies have to push these monstrous implants on our babies. I understand as long as adult implanties can listen to there tunes then the deaf be damned....
But i wont go meakly into the night. I wont lay down and shut up. I know very well whats at stake.
I hope after resding this you do too

 

[hoichi]

Learning sign and limiting your world to where large Deaf populations reside is far easier than living in the world at large and being able to interact with it fluidly.

If its so easy then whats the problem for you then?

 

[Crickets]

technology is not nuetral,if the technology you posted was having a negative impact on a peoples culture, and language, would you continue not to care? We have created allot of technology that has poisoned our planet, should we not care? Should we shut up as long as you get what ever you desire. . I am pointing out here to you, that the deaf, oir culture, our language we as a people are in the cross hairs of this technology that.these multinational companies who create this technology, view us as defective in need of a cure, in need of a solution.. That they target deaf babies for implants which i find monstrous. That these companies pay allot of money to convince, to coherce parents to allow this...with implanting babies comes preasure to not teach sign, to not allow the deaf baby to revert back to bieng deaf...this is what im pointing out to you. We are a minority culture, and this technology is not only threatening oir deepest and most charished treasures. Our babies and our language..


It is not conpletely seperate. It is the same multinational conpanies doing it. making huge profits. The more.grown adults get them and dont care, the more money these companies get, the more of our babies are targeted

T
What "b.s." don't you buy? According to statistics at gallaudet.edu http://libguides.gallaudet.edu/content.php?pid=119476&sid=1029190 about 2.1% of the population is deaf. According to this page of statistics at gallaudet.edu as of about 30 years ago (the last time fairly good measurement was done) http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php a much smaller percentage of people actually use ASL. Even if the number of people who use ASL has quadrupled in the last 30 years, still only about 1% of the population would be considered "good" at using ASL to communicate.



You know other people who use ASL because you need to use it to communicate with other Deaf people. But Deaf people are not "all over." I'm 50 years old, have lived in a few different cities in different states, went to college, and have worked all my life in either business or education, and I have never personally met anyone who was Deaf or who communicated mainly with sign language. People who use ASL well enough to communicate well with it make up a tiny percentage of the population. Most people who are hoh or late-deafened aren't going to spend months or years learning ASL so that they can talk to the 1% of the population who uses it to communicate, because it doesn't make sense, especially if no one in that 1% lives near them.



Again it has everything to do with, it is the same multinational profit driveN Corperations that are implanting grown men, and wee babies...
It has everything to do with it


Im interested in saving my people, our language, and our culture. Im interested in making sure people dont buy the propoganda and hype fed to them, hook, line and sinker by these multi national corps who are implanting deaf babies in record numbers.
I understand us deaf dont stand a chance against the billions of dollors these companies have to push these monstrous implants on our babies. I understand as long as adult implanties can listen to there tunes then the deaf be damned....
But i wont go meakly into the night. I wont lay down and shut up. I know very well whats at stake.
I hope after resding this you do too

Babies who get cochlear implants are getting them because their parent or parents decide that that is what they want for their child, and that is their right as parents. It's the same for other elective medical procedures for children; it's up to the child's parents to decide. It's not your decision, just because you're Deaf, whether those babies/children get cochlear implants. Some parents decide they want their children to get cochlear implants, and some don't. It's up to each parent to decide for themselves and for their child. A deaf child's language is whatever the child's parent(s) decides it's going to be.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is. You may be right about Deaf people who are anti-cochlear implants fighting a losing battle, because history shows us that technological advances tend to win and keep advancing, including health and medical issues. Once something is invented and is shown to be effective, more people tend to want it, too, and then people want one that's better, faster, smaller, more efficient, etc.

You talk about wanting to prevent propaganda. Well, the facts are that cochlear implants help many people to hear who couldn't hear without them. They enable many deaf children to hear and use spoken language (I have a young cousin who has one) who might not have been able to otherwise. Many people who use cochlear implants are able to communicate with the 99% of the population who hear and speak vs. the 1% who use ASL to communicate. As long as those things are true for many deaf people (even if they aren't true for ALL deaf people), cochlear implants aren't going away, and the technology in them will probably keep advancing.

ASL is a valuable language for the deaf/hoh people who want or need to use it; but as wonderful as it is for those who do use it, it's not a practical or useful solution for most hoh or late-deafened people who have lived and will continue to live their lives as part of the hearing world.

 

[hoichi]

I do! I do!

Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be Hoichis arguing with poor language (and reasoning) skills how ASL will free them to limit their communications to a mere fraction of the world population... strike that.. a mere fraction of the American population. s

i haveno plm with you voicing your opinion, i just dissgree and belive ASLwill do the opposotie of what you and multi national corpoerstions driven by peofit clAim. ive known a few implanties. Implants actually limted them far more then sign ever would.
sign is not pysicaly limiting in the least, contrary to implants..

The world is a complicated and varied place. If you've found something that works for you, that's awesome. Have the maturity to recognize the difference between what works for you and what will work for someone else with very different circumstances. We are all deaf to some degree, but the reality is we are not all the same and that is something that a number here fail to grasp. We all have different backgrounds, different experiences with our hearing loss (or just plain being deaf without any loss having occured,) and different abilities.
!"

I agree with this..

What essentially happened in this thread was someone seeking other implant users who might have had similar experiences for support was met with "All you need is Jesus!"

Not at all.
What happened here, is someone who was having great plms withbhis implwnts posted his plms. and i offered another techbology that does not have those plms
Period. And its for all to see.

 

[Bottesini]

i haveno plm with you voicing your opinion, i just dissgree and bekive ASLwill do the opposotie of what you and multi national corpoerstions driven by peofit clAim. ive known a few implanties. Implants actually limted them far more then sign ever would.
sign is not pysicaly limiting in the least, contrary to implants..


I agree with this..



Not at all.
What happened here, is someone who was having great plms withbhis implwnts posted his plms. and i offered another techbology that does not have those plms
Period. And its for all to see.

Since all you ever say is "Sign will set you free" why not just put it in your signature, then you can say hello to people, your message will still be there, but it won't make you look like a bully.

Even I am getting about ready to take Foxrac's advice, just because it's kind of like a spoiled five year old looking for attention, without much preference if it's positive or negative.

 

[hoichi]

[q
Babies who get cochlear implants are getting them because their parent or parents decide that that is what they want for their child, and that is their right as parents. It's the same for other elective medical procedures for children; it's up to the child's parents to decide. It's not your decision, just because you're Deaf, whether those babies/children get cochlear implants. Some parents decide they want their children to get cochlear implants, and some don't. It's up to each parent to decide for themselves and for their child. A deaf child's language is whatever the child's parent(s) decides it's going to be.d.

In some cointries due to the lobbying of cochlear implant multinationals parents actually do not have choice. choice can be easily and often is socialy conditioned. In america there is allot of cohercion, how much choice do you think terrified hearie parents actually make when confronted with the dazzle of white coated docs promising them. A maricle? How much money do you think these corporstions sink into advertising to these very parents the maricle.choice? Your sounding rather nieve.

[q You may not like it, but that's the way it is. You may be right about Deaf people who are anti-cochlear implants fighting a losing battle, because history shows us that technological advances tend to win and keep advancing, including health and medical issues. Once something is invented and is shown to be effective, more people tend to want it, too, and then people want one that's better, faster, smaller, more efficient, etc. d.

Yes its all about what you want, if it has a negative impact on others, to hell with them..

,thYou talk about wanting to prevent propaganda. Well, the facts are that cochlear implants help many people to hear who couldn't hear without them. They enable many deaf children to hear and use spoken language (I have a young cousin who has one) who might not have been able to otherwise. Many people who use cochlear implants are able to communicate with the 99% of the population who hear and speak vs. the 1% who use ASL to communicate. As long as those things are true for many deaf people (even if they aren't true for ALL deaf people), cochlear implants aren't going away, and the technology in them will probably keep advancing

No doubt these multi national companies will keep advancing these.technology. its a big money eaner. Doesnt mtter if it effects anyone badly or not. As long as you and others get what you want. The rest be damned

ASL is a valuable language for the deaf/hoh people who want or need to use it; but as wonderful as it is for those who do use it, it's not a practical or useful solution for most hoh or late-deafened people who have lived and will continue to live their lives as part of the hearing world.

Right and one day, when your multinational corps that implant succeed in their goals. A solution for people like me the deaf. our wonderful language you speak of along with our culture, our stories, our poems, our very living moving signs will be no more.

How true, snd how sad.
And thats the very reason, a stupid deaf guy like me, wont shut up,norgo meakly into the night..

 

[hoichi]

Since all you ever say is "Sign will set you free" why not just put it in your signature, then you can say hello to people, your message will still be there, but it won't make you look like a bully.

Even I am getting about ready to take Foxrac's advice, just because it's kind of like a spoiled five year old looking for attention, without much preference if it's positive or negative.

All right botisini...ill do it for you...all cool

 

[Bottesini]

All right botisini...ill do it for you...all cool

There! Now I have fixed everybody's world, and all will be well.

 

[hoichi]

No plm at all botisini..ll cool

 

[o0talula0o]

Bottesini FTW!!!

 

[Crickets]

In some cointries due to the lobbying of cochlear implant multinationals parents actually do not have choice. choice can be easily and often is socialy conditioned. In america there is allot of cohercion, how much choice do you think terrified hearie parents actually make when confronted with the dazzle of white coated docs promising them. A maricle? How much money do you think these corporstions sink into advertising to these very parents the maricle.choice? Your sounding rather nieve.

Yes its all about what you want, if it has a negative impact on others, to hell with them..

It has absolutely nothing to do with what I want. I don't have children, I'm not deaf, I don't know anyone with a deaf child, and I don't make the rules about cochlear implants, so my opinions on the entire subject don't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. I just know that technological advances tend to move forward, not backwards.

No doubt these multi national companies will keep advancing these.technology. its a big money eaner. Doesnt mtter if it effects anyone badly or not. As long as you and others get what you want. The rest be damned

I haven't stated anything about what I want, and even if I did, how would that matter at all? I don't have anything to do with the companies that make cochlear implants. I wear hearing aids. If I lose my hearing completely someday and have the option of getting cochlear implants, I would definitely consider it, but fortunately I haven't had to make that decision yet. I've always been part of the hearing world, and everyone else I know is too, so I'll probably do whatever I believe will help me communicate best with all of the other people in my life. I'll make what I believe to be the best decision for me. Most probably, I won't choose to do nothing if I lose all my hearing, and I also probably won't decide to learn ASL (not because I have anything against ASL, but because no one else I know uses it, so my learning it is of no use to me).

Right and one day, when your multinational corps that implant succeed in their goals. A solution for people like me the deaf. our wonderful language you speak of along with our culture, our stories, our poems, our very living moving signs will be no more. How true, snd how sad.

I don't own or work for any multinational corporations. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but whether ASL thrives in the future is not up to me. It's not my language. ASL is competing with cochlear implants, lipreading, speech, and electronic forms of communication, so the fate of ASL is literally in the hands of those who use it to demonstrate to late-deafened adults and to hearing parents of deaf children that learning ASL is a better choice for them than using the alternatives. If those people can't be convinced that ASL is the best choice for them, they're not going to learn it or see any value in having their children learn it. That's just common sense.

And thats the very reason, a stupid deaf guy like me, wont shut up,norgo meakly into the night..

If you really want to be an advocate for ASL, there are probably better, more effective ways to do it than arguing with people who have no influence over the issue about it on this message board.

"The future of ASL is in your hands." <-- There's your slogan. By the way, if you or someone else on this board uses that and makes money, I expect royalties, please

 

[hoichi]

O

It has absolutely nothing to do with what I want. I don't have children, I'm not deaf, I don't know anyone with a deaf child, and I don't make the rules about cochlear implants, so my opinions on the entire subject don't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. I just know that technological advances tend to move forward, not backwards.

we are discussing a topic on a discussion forum.which you are involved with. Sure you, and i, are nothing but dust before the wind in the grand scheme of things.but we are discusing issues none the less..juat because technology is pushed forward and profit driven doesnt mean we should just accept it ignoring the ramifications of it. Thats the kind of thinking that has Brought us nuclear waste, poisoned rivers, clear cut stript bare forests, burned rain forests and puluted oceans. We need to understand everything has A price. regardless if the march of technology is inevetible or not.

I
I haven't stated anything about what I want, and even if I did, how would that matter at all? I don't have anything to do with the companies that make cochlear implants. I wear hearing aids. If I lose my hearing completely someday and have the option of getting cochlear implants, I would definitely consider it, but fortunately I haven't had to make that decision yet. I've always been part of the hearing world, and everyone else I know is too, so I'll probably do whatever I believe will help me communicate best with all of the other people in my life. I'll make what I believe to be the best decision for me. Most probably, I won't choose to do nothing if I lose all my hearing, and I also probably won't decide to learn ASL (not because I have anything against ASL, but because no one else I know uses it, so my learning it is of no use to me). s.

By blindly accepting the ideology of these companies, what drives them you have everything to do with it...we are discussing it. Its not a plm. Discussing ideas is a good thing.

II don't own or work for any multinational corporations. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but whether ASL thrives in the future is not up to me. It's not my language. ASL is competing with cochlear implants, lipreading, speech, and electronic forms of communication, so the fate of ASL is literally in the hands of those who use it to demonstrate to late-deafened adults and to hearing parents of deaf children that learning ASL is a better choice for them than using the alternatives. If those people can't be convinced that ASL is the best choice for them, they're not going to learn it or see any value in having their children learn it. That's just common sense.
s.

I agree in that AS. is in our hands,but we cant ignore the array of forces with deep pockets that seek to eradicate it as a living breathing language with a culture. Used by a million americans. Small patatos sure. But thats two million hands signing...

I
If you really want to be an advocate for ASL, there are probably better, more effective ways to do it than arguing with people who have no influence over the issue about it on this message board.e

Well you got involved in the discussion on your own accord. I think this statement of yours is a cop out. Discussing this here, doesnt negate discussing or working towards it anyplace else...discusion about this. In an honest way is a good thing all round. its an issue tht effects us deaf. This is a deaf forUm. It makes sense we discusse what effects us as a people and a culture.

I"The future of ASL is in your hands." <-- There's your slogan. By the way, if you or someone else on this board uses that and makes money, I expect royalties, please

I like the slogan but prefer mine....
All cool