Mother of Palin daughter's boyfriend arrested

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jillio said:
Actually, Reba, I am verymuch at peace with the security that the American public (at least, the vast majority) saw Palin for exactly what she is.
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That's just it. Your peace depends on events going your way. Suppose Palin and McCain had won the election--would you be at peace then?
 
Reba said:
Suppose Palin and McCain had won the election--would you be at peace then?
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definitely not me. I'd be stockpiling bullets and food :laugh2:
 
BradB08 said:
Again, there's no comparison between the two. Nice try though.
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I'm not comparing them. I'm asking a question.

Is the determining factor of "rightness" or "wrongness" whether or not a procedure is "natural?"
 
Maria said:
Well, it's NOT the first time that Bristol got pregnant before she turned 18. It happened to MANY teen girls nowdays and none of them have learned since the Day One when they were taught about birth control pills and everythin'.

I read one article yesterday about a woman who is 20 years old -- she was sharin' her feelings and thoughts about " pregnancy ". She wants to be sterlized for good -- don't want to take a responsibility to take care of/raise a child. She mentioned in the article that she wants to have a good time makin' out with " male " partners without worryin' about gettin' pregnant. And, of course she is perfectly healthy and her mind is very sane as crystal. She perfectly knew well what she wants since she already thought things over before she decided to become sterlized.

Can you image that she is only 20 years old and not want to have a baby for good ? I guess, she have seen/heard sooo many " problems " with women/teen girls nowdays and she don't want to be either one of them. Obviously, she DID learned.
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:eek3:
 
jillio said:
Smilies aren't necessary. I saw your attempt at sarcasm. It was simply ineffective.
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Yeah, sure you did. ;)

I was going to respond, but meh. I see no way you could have read my links or understood my post to respond the way you just did.

jillio said:
If one teaches, it also means one learns.
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I just learned that's not true.

Reba said:
Wow, that's a leap. Are you this judgmental with all families who have an unwed teen?
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It would be very interesting to see the response if, heaven forbid, one of Obama's daughters gets pregnant in the future, since going by the reasoning around here, pregnant teenager=teenager was poorly taught by parent (logic and statistics be damned). My values are similar to Palin's in this regard (i.e. emphasize abstinence but also teach contraception) since that's the way I was raised and it worked out pretty well for me. However, I don't pretend for a second that it's impossible for one of my daughters (should I have any) to get pregnant, even if I teach them everything they need to know. If that happens, I don't think I'd appreciate busybodies, whether in my family, my community, or the public, making assumptions and passing judgments about my quality of parenting.
 
Sarah Palin is so old news... I think its so pointless to discuss about her and her situation since they are donig nothing with us.

Just sayin'.
Peace.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Sarah Palin is so old news... I think its so pointless to discuss about her and her situation since they are donig nothing with us.

Just sayin'.
Peace.
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yes but that's the problem. Palin's doing all the stuff to keep the spotlight shining on her.
 
Jiro said:
yes but that's the problem. Palin's doing all the stuff to keep the spotlight shining on her.
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Yet it is so easy for me to ignore all of that. So I do think anybody can ignore those. I stand on my mere thought.
 
darkdog said:
It would be very interesting to see the response if, heaven forbid, one of Obama's daughters gets pregnant in the future, since going by the reasoning around here, pregnant teenager=teenager was poorly taught by parent (logic and statistics be damned). My values are similar to Palin's in this regard (i.e. emphasize abstinence but also teach contraception) since that's the way I was raised and it worked out pretty well for me. However, I don't pretend for a second that it's impossible for one of my daughters (should I have any) to get pregnant, even if I teach them everything they need to know. If that happens, I don't think I'd appreciate busybodies, whether in my family, my community, or the public, making assumptions and passing judgments about my quality of parenting.
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Obama did not express a distaste to ban sex education and abortion. Apparently - Palin does and boom goes the headshot..... it pretty much backfired at her.

beside - it makes absolutely no sense in teaching about contraception if teaching about abstinence. It's a convenient bureaucracy runaround. For example - it's obviously unconstitutional to ban firearms but you can just make it very expensive or restrictive to buy. I call it a "polite version" of gun ban. and same for Palin's view - a polite version of sex education.
 
Jiro said:
Obama did not express a distaste to ban sex education and abortion. Apparently - Palin does and boom goes the headshot..... it pretty much backfired at her.
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You're right about Obama. I was talking about the reasoning in this thread with statements such as "...given that the abstinence only ed actually leads to a greater incidence of teen preganancy, one can assume she did [teach abstinence only]". In other words, pregnancy is proof of abstinence-only education*. By logical extension, you'd have to say that girls who receive contraception education have a zero probability of pregnancy. Obviously, the assertion is absurd. That's why I wonder if the same logic would be applied to a more popular figure like Obama should he end up in the same situation. After all, Palin herself expressed support for contraception education, but that doesn't seem to deter people from making up silly logic and applying it to her. I would hope I could expect consistency, but I'm not holding my breath.

Jiro said:
beside - it makes absolutely no sense in teaching about contraception if teaching about abstinence. It's a convenient bureaucracy runaround. For example - it's obviously unconstitutional to ban firearms but you can just make it very expensive or restrictive to buy. I call it a "polite version" of gun ban. and same for Palin's view - a polite version of sex education.
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I don't think my parents were involved in any bureaucracy runarounds when they taught me about both abstinence and contraception. They basically said that abstinence is the best way to go since it's the only 100% safe way of avoiding pregnancy and diseases and it's safer from an emotional standpoint, too. They also taught me everything I ever need to know about contraceptives in case I decided against the abstinence route. It worked out very well for me. That's my own experience and it's why I say teaching about both abstinence and contraception makes sense.

* The poster actually makes a contradiction. The phrase "greater incidence" implies that the probability a pregnant teenager received abstinence-only education is greater than 50%. This is reasonable, even if not specific. How much greater would depend on the data used, but reason dictates it's not 100% or close to it. Nevertheless, the next clause, "one can assume she did [teach abstinence only]" makes that very assumption. Such an assumption would mean that kids always do what they are taught is best, they would always use contraceptives correctly, and the contraceptives would never fail. This would actually vindicate abstinence only sex education since kids would always be diligent in abstinence.
 
You got lucky. My parents were too selfish to a point where they let their Catholic beliefs get in the way of my right to know what sex was. We never had "the talk".
 
A reply for DarkDog -

Sarah Palin strongly opposes sex education programs that do not include abstinence. She has also said she does not support using taxpayer dollars to distribute contraception in schools. She is a member of Feminists for Life - a group that forcefully opposes abortion and forms of birth control it views as equivalent to abortion, such a emergency contraception.

Excerpts from Teen Sex, Sex Education And Sarah Palin

"You can turn the television on any day or night and find something that allows families and communities to have a conversation with their young people," Brown says. "It allows parents to explain why 'in this family, we hope you are going to delay childbirth and pregnancy until you are older.' "

It's a conversation, she says, that parents should have with their children not once, but time and time again.

The messages in the movies, at church and in school may not be the same as the one they're hearing at home. And those mixed signals can confuse teens, she says.

"Is the message that sex is OK as long as you use protection?" she asks. "Is it that sex should be postponed until you are 22 and out of the house? In the meantime, teens are spending a lot of time together, and a lot them are grown up — at least physically."
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Gov. Sarah Palin is among that group. In response to a questionnaire during Alaska's gubernatorial race, Palin said, "I am opposed to explicit sex education."

Alaska ranks in the middle of all states — 30th — in teen pregnancy. Its teenage pregnancy rate is lower than the national average, though teenagers in Alaska are just as likely to be sexually active as U.S. teenagers in general.

Three out of 10 U.S. girls get pregnant at least once before their 20th birthday. After a 15-year decline in teen pregnancies, there was a 3 percent increase in the most recent year tallied.

Most states leave the scope of sex education up to the local school boards. That's also true in Alaska, where there is no requirement that the subject be taught. Alaska's largest school district, Anchorage, emphasizes abstinence, with a program called "Abstinence Plus."

Once each semester, a teacher, student or principal can invite experts to talk to the class on reproductive health. Planned Parenthood is often invited in to do comprehensive sex education, and so is Let's Talk, a program that advocates abstinence until marriage.

Let's Talk is run by Bill Donovan, who also directs the Crisis Pregnancy Center in Anchorage. He says teenagers in Alaska are getting a balanced view of the options available to them.

"You can't say that because they are hearing abstinence education, they don't know anything about what they call 'safer sex,' " Donovan says. "They hear it from their teachers. They hear from outside groups that are invited in."

Teens from small towns like Palin's hometown of Wasilla turn up "all the time" at the Crisis Pregnancy Center, Donovan says.

"Not only that, they will fly in from the bush and the villages to come to our center," he says.

He has helped teenagers tell their parents that they are pregnant and he has counseled them on adoption. But Donovan says he neither counsels nor refers them to contraceptive services.
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simply put - their approach and priority are WACKED. their effort (with abstinence program) to prevent teen pregnancy IS NOT EFFECTIVE. Their approach to those who became pregnant are WACKED and CONTROLLING. They "forced" those to give birth for adoptions.

Here's further info from National Campaign to Prevent Teen & Unplanned Pregnancy:
What We Do
We work in many areas in order to:
* strengthen a culture of personal responsibility regarding sex, getting pregnant, and bringing children into the world
* support responsible policies that will increase the use of contraception
* provide more education to teens, parents, and young adults.
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Why It Matters: Teen Pregnancy & Education
Parenthood is the leading cause of school drop out among teen girls. (sounds familiar??)

Because the relationship between academic failure and teen pregnancy is so strong, and because teen pregnancy affects the educational achievement of teens themselves as well as that of their children, those concerned about educating young people should also be concerned with preventing teen pregnancy.
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In addition, the majority of children from an unplanned pregnancy are born to unmarried women. This is important because children raised in single-parent families face more challenges in a variety of areas than do children raised in two-parent, low-conflict married families. For example, when compared to similar children who grow up with two parents, children in one-parent families are more likely to be poor, drop out of high school, have lower grade-point averages, lower college aspirations, and poorer school attendance records. As adults, they also have higher rates of divorce. Such data suggest that reducing unplanned pregnancy will increase the proportion of children born into circumstances that better support their growth and development.
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so if Sarah Palin bans sex education and promote abstinence & contraception... How are you supposed to know the risk of it and the whole story about it? They rather not teach students to be fully aware of teen pregnancy, think abstinence program should be good enough. and because of that - they engage in risky sexual behaviors without fully-knowing the risk and danger of it. BTW - Palin's stance on contraception is very odd and unclear. Anyway - you just read that kids are getting conflicting, confusing information about sex so chance is - they probably didn't fully understand the big deal about teen pregnancy.

Simply enough - TEACH TEACH TEACH and that will effectively reduce unplanned teen pregnancy.
 
The Lesson of Bristol Palin
It's naive to imagine, in the anything-goes Internet era, that Palin's daughter's pregnancy would go unremarked upon. It's also mistaken, I think, to expect it. Like it or not, Bristol Palin's pregnancy is intertwined with an important public policy debate about which the two parties differ and on which Sarah Palin has been outspoken.

Which brings me to the teachable moment: What should teenagers be taught about sexual activity and contraception? By whom? What access should they have to condoms or other forms of birth control? Specifically, is abstinence-only education enough?

The 2008 Republican Party platform acknowledges that "each year, more than 3 million American teenagers contract sexually transmitted diseases, causing emotional harm and serious health consequences, even death." It expresses support for "efforts to educate teens and parents about the health risks associated with early sexual activity and provide the tools needed to help teens make healthy choices."

Then it adds, "Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-of-wedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases."

Yes, but talking about abstinence turns out to be easier than abstaining. More than 60 percent of high school seniors report having had sex at least once. The message that every family should take from Bristol Palin's pregnancy is: It can happen here.

Except Sarah Palin opposes programs that teach teenagers anything about contraception. "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," she said in answering a questionnaire from the conservative Eagle Forum during her 2006 gubernatorial race.

McCain has voted to increase abstinence-only funding, voted to terminate the federal family planning program and voted against funding teen pregnancy prevention programs. He voted to require teens seeking birth control at federally funded family planning clinics to obtain parental consent.

Being a teenager means taking stupid risks. The best, most attentive parenting and the best, most comprehensive sex education won't stop teenagers from doing dumb things. The most we as parents can hope for is to insulate our children, as best we can, from the consequences of their own stupidity.

I have two daughters back home, 11 and 13 -- close enough to Bristol's age that I cannot comfort myself that her situation is a far-off irrelevance.

When I talk with them about this news, I will use the moment to convey this admittedly muddled message: Wait, please. But whenever you choose to have sex, at some distant moment, don't do it without contraception.
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Random Comments from people -
As political leaders in America, one must have morals, character and beliefs. I believe Palin should not have been placed as a candidate for the VP position. McCain is not in a position to lie and say he knew about the pregnancy. McCain is in an awkward position.
mary, Snellville, United States

It is quite ironic that Mrs. Palin opposes sex education in schools, though her own daughter is pregnant. Will American's leave their foreign policy and government in the hands of someone who cannot manage their family?
adila, Rotterdam, Netherlands

if we have to respect the family's privacy then they shouldn't be able to flaunt them in our face for political gains. if you talk about and show your family to the media all the time, then you can't cry foul when bad news about your family emerges.
Ian, seattle,
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Jiro said:
...Simply enough - TEACH TEACH TEACH and that will effectively reduce unplanned teen pregnancy.
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Don't schools TEACH TEACH TEACH teens that they shouldn't smoke, drive drunk, or abuse drugs? Well, teens still smoke, drive drunk, and abuse drugs.
 
Reba said:
Don't schools TEACH TEACH TEACH teens that they shouldn't smoke, drive drunk, or abuse drugs? Well, teens still smoke, drive drunk, and abuse drugs.
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Do conservative parents teach their kids anything?
 
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