Long Term Care Insurance...

Y

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Recent conversation with an Elder, I realize
that it's better to learn and share now before
we MIGHT get too old to think clearly
about this Long Term Care Insurance...
I wonder if anyone have this Good or Bad
experience with this Long Term Care Insurance ?
Worth it or not ? I NEVER see any
written testimonials from any Elders who
are either happy or un-happy with their
Long Term Care Insurance !!!

I do NOT want to read any articles from "salespeople",
but I do hope to find any articles/opinions from
Elders (Customers) whoever have the
experience with Long Term Care Insurance
and which name of corporation do they recommend ?
Perhaps rip-offs ?

NOTE: Long Term Care Insurance is to cover
the costs of nursing homes/assisted living/in-home care,
etc.... (I think that Medicare do NOT cover any
kind of Long Term Care Insurance, Sigh...)

I would like to keep this thread with any questions
and any answers related to
"Long Term Care Insurance" only.
 
I haven't had personal experience with it yet, but I have heard financial experts on the radio suggest it. They were not salesmen, just general financial experts.

The following is a blunt example. One man said that you can easily tell the difference between a long term "nursing" home that Medicare can afford, and one that long-term-care insurance can afford--just use your nose. He said you can smell the difference when you enter.

Sorry about the crude example but it has some truth to it.

I need to begin thinking about getting that insurance for myself and Hubby soon. I believe you have to get it before you become sick.
 
Hold your horse about an insurance issue. You need to know about this one first.

If a person has to move in a nursing home for a long term, the nursing home company has the right to take away your house and your entire money from the bank.

For a short term, the medicare would pay you. I assume that they cannot take away your home. It depends what kind of policy in your state.

My neighbor moved in a nursing home, and she thought that she would move back to her home, but she lost her rights. You wouldn't want this happen to you. Her former neighbor helped her to move to the nurse home. How? She took her to a doctor for the approval without telling the patient what is going on. Once, her friend recieves the paperwork from the doctor, and then she got the approval from her lawyer (not the patient's lawyer). Finally, she was in charge of everything to sell the house and her car. (This is a legal in most states.) Living in a nursing home, the patient has a few rights, but her rights do not involve outside of the nursing home.

Usually, some patients, at nursing home, have no control over what they need. The nurses give them the pills in order to stop complaints and make them to forget about any issue that nurses do not want even want to hear. That is sad part. That's where they end their life.
 
Geez.. Nursing home force you sell everything your values home and others.. That frigg'n ridcouisly...

You have to rights investment when your house sold and move to GRSP.. FYI: Nursing home cannot take your investment which not allowed!
Need co-trust by your silbings... will protect your funds when r u in Nursing Home.. til passed away.. Lawyer will take care of these worry free.. some of states.. that what I've heard about..

Isn't same Canada.. not going same as USA follow steps.. hell no way..
Their own choices and deserved to be happy.

wow.. what webexplorder said.. that uglier news.. unbelivable nursing home is GREEDY and running after the money!
 
According to AARP, the average cost of nursing home care in the United States is $150 per day (2001). It is probably more now, and it varies by state.

http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/longterm/Articles/a2003-10-30-dailycost.html

That does not include costs for therapy or medications.

That equals $55,250 per year. If you don't have long-term care insurance, how can you afford that? I don't make that much money now, and I know I won't get that much from Social Security. I think that is why we need that insurance.
 
I looked this up:

How Much Will Medicare Pay For a Nursing Home?

100% of the first 20 days (providing you are receiving daily skilled care)
Days 21-100, you pay the first $101.50 per day and Medicare will pay the balance
After day 100, Medicare pays nothing
 
Thanks for the link just in case in the future
this link might NOT work anymore so I was going to
include Edelman's entire article here but it's bit
too huge to fit the whole thing so I have to
enclose Part 1 and then Part 2:


How to Pay for Long-Term Care
By Ric Edelman
From The Truth About Money

This is why neither private medical insurance nor Medicare pays for long-term care. It’s simply not a medical need. So who pays? You do, until you can no longer afford it. Thus, we can group all Americans into three broad groups: the wealthy, the middle class, and the poor.

If you are wealthy and can afford the $66,000+ annual cost, long-term care may not be a financial concern for you.

If you are middle class, you must pay for the cost of long-term care from your income and assets until you run out of money.

If you are poor (which is where many in the middle class eventually find themselves) and cannot afford to pay for the care you need, you will be covered by Medicaid.

Supposedly, therefore, everybody in the U.S. who needs care will receive it, even if they can’t afford it. But if you’re going to rely on Medicaid, you are assuming:

Medicaid still exists when you need it;
a Medicaid bed will be available in your community when and where you need one; and
you will be admitted by that facility.
Even assuming that the patient requiring institutionalized care is able to find it, a problem remains for his or her spouse. If all of the family’s income and assets are devoted to paying for the care of the institutional spouse, where does that leave the still-at-home spouse (also known as the community spouse)?

A Crisis for the Middle Class
This is why long-term care is a crisis for the middle class. The wealthy, after all, can afford the cost without sacrificing the lifestyle of their spouse or family members. And the poor enjoy a similar advantage, not because they can afford it, but because they are not required to.

Thus, it’s the middle class which suffers the most, economically-speaking. Unfortunately, those in the middle class also have the most misconceptions about who pays for long-term care. As already mentioned, health insurance does not cover this cost. And according to the U.S. Health Care Financing Administration, only under special circumstances does Medicare pay part of the costs of long-term care. Here’s why:

Medicare pays only if the patient has been hospitalized for three consecutive days within the 30 days prior to entering a nursing home (60% of patients fail this test).
The facility must be Medicare-approved (only 20% of the nation’s 20,000 nursing homes qualify); and
Even if the above two criteria are met, Medicare pays only for the first 21 days in full. Medicare requires a patient co-payment in excess of $100 per day for the next 80 days, and Medicare pays nothing after the 100th day. Medicare also stops paying as soon as your health care provider determines that your condition is chronic and is not going to improve — even if the 100 days are not yet up.
“No problem,” you say to yourself. “I’ll just become poor and get Medicaid to pay.” Before you try that, make sure you know the truth about Medicaid. If you decide to spend down your assets — or if you’re forced to — you need to know how Medicaid operates (again, assuming it still exists).

The Medicaid Asset Test
As the rules stand at this writing, Medicaid places your assets into three categories: non-countable, countable, and inaccessible.

Non-countable assets include your house (but only if you have a spouse who lives there), car, jewelry, household goods, personal effects, prepaid funeral, and $2,000 in cash.
Countable assets include second homes and any additional cars, plus all savings and investments, including CDs, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, annuities, IRAs, and retirement plans — even the cash value of your life insurance policies.
Inaccessible assets include gifts and anything placed into irrevocable trusts. These assets will be deemed by Medicaid to be exempt transfers (meaning gifts or transfers into trusts will be allowed) or non-exempt transfers (meaning the gifts or transfers are disallowed). If the transfers are deemed non-exempt, Medicaid will deny benefits for a period of time based on when the non-exempt transfers occurred.
Under Medicaid rules, the community spouse may keep non-countable assets, but is forced to liquidate countable assets. Furthermore, in most states, the community spouse is allowed a monthly income of less than $2,000; the institutional spouse is allowed $30 to $40 per month. Medicaid takes all income above those amounts, including Social Security income, pensions, interest income, annuity income, and alimony payments.

Although Medicaid will not take your house if a spouse lives there, you will lose your home when your spouse dies or goes to a nursing home. When your house eventually is sold, Medicaid will recover the sale proceeds — even if it has to wait until after you’ve died to do so. So you can forget about leaving your house to the kids.

The solution? Actually, there are three of them. Let’s look closely at each:
 
Part 2... (Edelman article as of 1/11/2006)

The solution? Actually, there are three of them. Let’s look closely at each:

Solution #1: Qualify for Medicaid By Transferring Assets

Clearly, Medicaid will pay only if you have few assets. Logically, then, make sure you don’t have assets. Therefore, transfer your assets to your children now. This will make you poor, and by being poor, you’ll qualify for Medicaid.

If you don’t transfer your assets to your children, you’ll just spend everything you own on long-term care costs until you have nothing left anyway. Either way, you’ll be broke. So wouldn’t you rather give your assets to your kids instead of to a nursing home?

Four Problems with Transferring Assets

If you think this sounds reasonable, watch out for these four big problems:

Problem #1: Yeah, Right

You’ll find it very hard to give everything you own to your (spoiled rotten!) kids just as you’ve reached that time in your life when you can start enjoying yourself. In other words, this recommendation, um, usually doesn’t go over very well.

Try convincing your parents to give you all their money.

“No, really, Dad, you need to give me everything you own right now. It’s for your own good!” Yeah, right.

Problem #2: Medicaid Is Aware of This Trick

If you made gifts during the 36 months prior to filing your claim for benefits, Medicaid will deny the claim — 60 months for gifts you make to a trust. This rule is specifically intended to prevent people from asset-shifting. And please note an important change in Medicaid rules: If you file a claim at any time during the 36-month waiting period, Medicaid will restart the clock. Therefore if you plan to use this strategy, assets must be transferred well in advance of the need for long-term care, and be sure you don’t file a claim until you’re sure the 36-month waiting period has expired. Also, be aware that transferring assets to a spouse does not shield the assets from Medicaid.



Have you brought assets into your marriage?

Many people who marry later in life bring assets into the marriage, like Ruth. Her husband died when she was 47, leaving her his 401(k), their home, plus life insurance proceeds. Five years later, Ruth remarried. She kept all her assets in her name and filed a separate tax return. When her second husband needed long-term care, he quickly spent down all his assets. But Medicaid permitted Ruth to keep only $2,000 per month; all her other income had to be spent on her husband’s care before Medicaid would pay benefits. Thus, over the next several years, Ruth was forced to spend down to the poverty level, too.
Regardless of whose money it was or where it came from — inheritances, savings, retirement plans, or insurance proceeds — Medicaid will deny claims until both spouses spend virtually all their money on long-term care. The fact that the money originally belonged to the community spouse does not matter.



Problem #3: Attempts to Asset-Shift Are Stymied by the IRS

Under gift tax rules (see Chapter 63), you may give to any one person only $12,000 per year (you may give unlimited amounts to your spouse, but as shown above, doing so has no effect). So, even if you try to give your money away, the IRS will restrict the speed with which you may proceed.

Problem #4: This Strategy Is Unethical ...

Please remember that Medicaid is funded by taxpayers to help the truly needy of our society— not as a middle-class tax-dodge to protect your assets.

Problem #5: ... and Illegal, Too!

Congress knows that few consumers have the imagination or knowledge to effectively execute an asset-shifting strategy. So, to discourage professional advisors from sharing this information, Congress passed a law that made it a felony for advisors to counsel or assist consumers in their efforts to shift assets. Therefore, don’t bother asking your lawyer, accountant, or financial advisor for help; the smart ones won’t provide it.

Solution #2: Divorce Yourself from Medicaid

For all five reasons noted above, transferring assets is not as simple or as easy as it first appears. This is why some elder-care attorneys suggest strategy number two: Divorce. The institutional spouse leaves all assets under a divorce decree to the community spouse; Medicaid cannot claim assets transferred in such a manner.

Three Problems with Divorce

This isn’t necessarily a great idea, either, because:

The same ethical problem exists as noted above;
If you thought it was tough for Mom and Dad to handle the thought of giving everything to their kids, just try to get them to file for divorce after 45 years of marriage simply because one of them is declining in health. Not only is it unlikely they’ll do it — it’s one heck of a commentary that our laws even encourage such an action; and
Medicaid is aware that many couples are divorcing for economic rather than marital reasons, and the agency is starting to challenge this strategy. Where claimants have recently divorced and decreed all their assets to their ex-spouses, Medicaid has gone to court, arguing that under the divorce decree, the institutionalized spouse did not get his or her fair share of the marital assets. Why argue that position? Because if Medicaid wins, as much as half the marital assets return to the institutional spouse, which Medicaid then can seize.
Solution #3: Long-Term Care Insurance

This is the least-evil solution.

Although buying insurance is never fun, given the alternatives of transferring assets or getting a divorce, it is the least evil choice. For that reason, clients who are not independently wealthy should consider buying a policy — even as early as age 40 or 50.

Here’s why: The cost of coverage is related directly to your age at the time you buy the policy (rates are unisex; there is no cost difference between men and women — not yet, anyway). Since a person age 50 is not likely to file a claim for 20 years or more, the carrier has many years to collect premiums. Thus the cost for that 50-year-old is quite low — about $150 per month in many cases. That’s extremely affordable, especially considering that the cost of policies skyrockets with age. If you don’t buy a policy until age 65, the cost could exceed $3,500 per year, or $7,500 by age 75.

Many feel that buying a policy in their fifties is unnecessary, since it is likely to be years — even decades — before they’ll need the coverage. (But it’s more likely than you might think: 11% of nursing home residents are under age 60. Most of them are accident victims, which can occur at any age.)

Two Reasons to Buy Long Term Care Insurance at Young Ages

Although it’s true that a 50-year-old is unlikely to need the coverage for many years, it nonetheless makes sense to buy it young. Why? Consider Figure 11-6, which compares the cost of a typical long-term care policy for different ages:

Reason #1: It’s Cheaper When You’re Younger

Thus, the 50-year-old pays 30% less in total payments over his lifetime than the 75-year-old and is protected for 35 years instead of just 10. The insurance industry is sending you a clear message: Buy this policy when you’re young, because you’ll save a lot of money in the long run.

Reason #2: You’re More Able to Qualify

And you’re more likely to qualify for it, too — and that’s the second reason you need to protect yourself at younger ages. On the application form, you’ll be presented with a list of medical conditions. If you have any of them, you will be declined or asked to pay a higher premium. But at age 50, when you’re unlikely to have symptoms, you are better able to get the coverage.

Thus, you need to buy a policy when you’re young enough to afford it and healthy enough to qualify.

updated 01/11/06
 
Beware:
A few people informed me that they noticed
some elders who stayed at their own homes
tend to live LONGER than at any of these
assisted-living/nursing homes.

I'm sure many of us would prefer
to stay at our homes till death rather than go
to either living-assisted homes or nursing homes
but who will ever know what will happen to us...
I did some recent research showing the average
is about $62K a year.

Edelman article showed the average monthly
is about $150 monthly just for Long Term Care
Insurance that's still too high but it will go
even higher if we wait too long. I noticed
that Edelman included "Medicare" and then
"Medicaid" create a little confusion there.

There is a huge difference between
Medicare and Medicaid...

Medicare is NOT income-based just
for people over 65 and/or with disability...

Medicaid is based on Low-incomes only.
 
webexplorer said:
Hold your horse about an insurance issue. You need to know about this one first.

If a person has to move in a nursing home for a long term, the nursing home company has the right to take away your house and your entire money from the bank.

For a short term, the medicare would pay you. I assume that they cannot take away your home. It depends what kind of policy in your state.

My neighbor moved in a nursing home, and she thought that she would move back to her home, but she lost her rights. You wouldn't want this happen to you. Her former neighbor helped her to move to the nurse home. How? She took her to a doctor for the approval without telling the patient what is going on. Once, her friend recieves the paperwork from the doctor, and then she got the approval from her lawyer (not the patient's lawyer). Finally, she was in charge of everything to sell the house and her car. (This is a legal in most states.) Living in a nursing home, the patient has a few rights, but her rights do not involve outside of the nursing home.

Usually, some patients, at nursing home, have no control over what they need. The nurses give them the pills in order to stop complaints and make them to forget about any issue that nurses do not want even want to hear. That is sad part. That's where they end their life.

Yeah, I ought to hold that horse but the problem is
that I do NOT have any horse ...Just kidding ya...
All of your comments does make a lot of sense
in such a cruel world here...

Sometimes we can NOT even trust our own lawyers !!
I read an article somewhere that an elderly woman
lost her house toward her own lawyer who took
everything away from her.
 
Y said:
Beware:
A few people informed me that they noticed
some elders who stayed at their own homes
tend to live LONGER than at any of these
assisted-living/nursing homes.

I'm sure many of us would prefer
to stay at our homes till death rather than go
to either living-assisted homes or nursing homes
but who will ever know what will happen to us...

Hmm, it depends on the elderly people themselves. Most will die early in nursing home mainly because of isolation, no family member bothering to visit, and sometimes, it's attributed to substandard care they've recieved.

But then sometime, it's the same story for those who lived at home, and yet died earlier.

Of course, many of us prefer living in our own house because it's familiar, and it's in our comfort zone.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
But then sometime, it's the same story for those who lived at home, and yet died earlier.

Of course, many of us prefer living in our own house because it's familiar, and it's in our comfort zone.

That's what we are hoping that we could die in our own home and make us feel comfortable and peace of our mind. I hate pathologists to cut the heads to see what is the cause of the death, and wrap up plastic along with dead people in a big refrigerator. Come on - they were old ages. They are sicko.
 
Ahhh!

My solution (on a whim) is to do it like the Indians did in the old days. Just walk into the woods... :sure: There are no simple answers to this age old dilemma. How to die gracefully...but I have to admit dying at home ain't so bad compared to the hospital or in a nursing home.

:topic:
 
wow interesting thread here.


Accord German law, every employees are obligate to pay Nursing insurance thru our monthy pay slip.
 
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