Israeli researcher: Moses was HIGH on drugs

lumbingmi

lumbingmi

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High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week.
Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.

"As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics," Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.
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Moses was high on drugs: Israeli researcher

Indeed Moses is very happy man.
 
Interesting...

What's kind of drugs Moses use? I didn't know that there're kind of drugs around Moses' time?

Just curious...
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Interesting...

What's kind of drugs Moses use? I didn't know that there're kind of drugs around Moses' time?

Just curious...
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He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil's Amazon forest in 1991. "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," Shanon said.

He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible.
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Look up for acacia and ayayhuasca. that what researcher claimed moses was taking these drugs to have "visions" from God.

Not many people realized that Moses wandering in desert for 40 years. If you really think about it, you would be likely to be delirium if you wander in desert for 40 years lmao.
 
deafskeptic said:
It is said that the writer of the Revelations sounded like he was high on drugs and he was having a very bad trip.
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John was taking "psychotropic" mushrooms and had a bad trip whereas he got the intense, violent vision of apocalyptic. Psychotropic mushrooms are plentiful on Patoms, the place where john was exiled.
 
I don't know what all the shock and uproar is about. Even if the theory were true, many, many religious seers throughout world history have used the help of herbs to connect to their diety. Some achieve the same state through fasting. Many pre-Columbian Americans used tobacco.

Historically, most were careful not to overdo the practice, like every day highs or an amount which was addictive.

Some who used herbs, spirits, and the like were not in religion, but in the sciences and arts. Although it didn't do their health any service, their works are still highly valued today. Why would the visions of the Hebrew biblical figures be any different?
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Interesting...

What's kind of drugs Moses use? I didn't know that there're kind of drugs around Moses' time?

Just curious...
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There have been drugs on Earth for centuries. Different people find them and use them for the right or wrong reasons.

For instance, there has been alcohol for centuries. They just never developed a process for making it until recently. Cavemen have unknowingly gotten drunk from eating fermented fruits... animals too.

One common way of finding drugs is when a person is stuck in the desert. Hunger develops, so they find something to eat. Since it's known that people eat almost any plant... they probably grabbed something and ate it. They barely survive, but remember the effects of what they ate... a drug is born! Another example would be at a campfire. They create a fire and throw pieces of wood in it. One piece of wood has a plant stuck to it and it's a drug. *gasps* WEED! (or something else). ;)
 
lumbingmi said:
Look up for acacia and ayayhuasca. that what researcher claimed moses was taking these drugs to have "visions" from God.

Not many people realized that Moses wandering in desert for 40 years. If you really think about it, you would be likely to be delirium if you wander in desert for 40 years lmao.
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Yeah, that's true.

Also, who says he wandered in the desert for 40 years? Did people actually see him leave and return 40 years later or did he appear out of nowhere and say... "Boy, it seemed like forever! I must have been in the desert for 40 years!" (This is probably cuz he hallucinated so much that time seemed to go on forever.
 
So a whole conservative religion might be based on the hallucinations of various men over the course of centuries?? Also how do you explain nearly idential writings from two different men who wrote them in seperate countries at seperate times. I dont they could have easily copied each other since there wasnt exactly email back then either. Most writings and teachings were kept in temples and synogogues, not always readily accessible to many AND literacy back in those days meant your family had the money to educate you. Many people were quite illiterate.

I think alot of the Old Testament stories were handed down generation to generation orally, through storytelling. The Isrealites had to memorize the scriptures very well (even better than most Christians do these days) in order to have them. It was not unusual then for a boy to know the first five books of the Bible strictly from memory.

Now - I will say this the version we got was the version that Constantine and the Early Church agreed on. Alot of these stories were likely exaggerated for entertainment purposes while still retaining their educational and religious value.

I wont rule out the use of plants and herbs for recreational and medicinal purposes in those days as they didnt know better about alot of things. But there are still certain things you can't explain. Like the near identical teachings written by several authors who had written these books in a similar time period (or even several years apart) in different locations.

I dont think several guys can have the same visual experiences from a drug. Or even have a similar train of thought for that matter.

To me this theory is what you would expect from a high school kid. He writes this only because he's a rebel and wants his opinon known as fact. I dont think any legitimate research went into this. Any college professsor would have thrown this out and told him to start over. This is laughable in my opinion.
 
Sigh . . . People have been trying to discredit the Word of God for ages--it's nothing new, and it's still nonsense.

Also, it's interesting how anti-Judeo-Christian posts and threads are being allowed since the locking of the religious debates forum.
 
Dixie said:
So a whole conservative religion might be based on the hallucinations of various men over the course of centuries?? Also how do you explain nearly idential writings from two different men who wrote them in seperate countries at seperate times. I dont they could have easily copied each other since there wasnt exactly email back then either. Most writings and teachings were kept in temples and synogogues, not always readily accessible to many AND literacy back in those days meant your family had the money to educate you. Many people were quite illiterate.

I think alot of the Old Testament stories were handed down generation to generation orally, through storytelling. The Isrealites had to memorize the scriptures very well (even better than most Christians do these days) in order to have them. It was not unusual then for a boy to know the first five books of the Bible strictly from memory.

Now - I will say this the version we got was the version that Constantine and the Early Church agreed on. Alot of these stories were likely exaggerated for entertainment purposes while still retaining their educational and religious value.

I wont rule out the use of plants and herbs for recreational and medicinal purposes in those days as they didnt know better about alot of things. But there are still certain things you can't explain. Like the near identical teachings written by several authors who had written these books in a similar time period (or even several years apart) in different locations.

I dont think several guys can have the same visual experiences from a drug. Or even have a similar train of thought for that matter.

To me this theory is what you would expect from a high school kid. He writes this only because he's a rebel and wants his opinon known as fact. I dont think any legitimate research went into this. Any college professsor would have thrown this out and told him to start over. This is laughable in my opinion.
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Stories have been passed down for years from one man to another.

When stories are written, it's not always based on what the author witnessed... but what the author heard. That's a possibility for two people sharing similar stories.
 
Chase said:
Some who used herbs, spirits, and the like were not in religion, but in the sciences and arts. Although it didn't do their health any service, their works are still highly valued today. Why would the visions of the Hebrew biblical figures be any different?
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So you agree that Moses and other biblical figures have used some kind of drugs that enabled them to have a "vision" from God?

It s interesting that there are many people or "false" prophlets (david korseh, Jesus, Talyor Helzer, Benny himm, etc...) who claimed to be either second coming of Jesus or God spoke them. We were quickly to discredit them because of our advanced technologies whereas in biblical times, there are very limited technologies and they rely on people's stories.

the point here is that researcher make interesting observation and it s up to us to believe. Of course, Christians will label the researcher as balant lair while for the rest of us, it s a food for thought.
 
Dixie said:
To me this theory is what you would expect from a high school kid. He writes this only because he's a rebel and wants his opinon known as fact. I dont think any legitimate research went into this. Any college professsor would have thrown this out and told him to start over. This is laughable in my opinion.
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Huh. This story was wrote by well educated professor. He's no high school dude. He know more about how human's mind work more than ever we will.

Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.
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lumbingmi said:
So you agree that Moses and other biblical figures have used some kind of drugs that enabled them to have a "vision" from God?
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No, I don’t agree that Moses and other biblical figures took drugs to encourage visions, especially not what the current term for “drugs” implies. That’s patently ridiculous and is merely the usual gleeful twisting of words that “antis” do (“antis” are those always against something, trying to tear it down).

What I pointed is many earnest people the histories of religion, sciences, arts -- many fields of human endeavor -- sought to make their minds more receptive to inspiration by eating certain herbs, drinking spirits, and/or fasting, which is the entire point of Shanon’s study of memory under “natural and artificial conditions.” It's not exactly earth-shaking news. Shanon raised the possibility that Moses could have done the same, solely on the basis that the particular herbs (or other mind-altering agents) were available.

Reba is right. Despite Shanon’s impressive education, the connection is more wishful thinking than scholarly. But that’s also nothing new in a world where academics are desperate to publish something with a punch.

Naturally people who want to attack the current laws on recreational pharmaceuticals and/or bash others’ religious beliefs will twist it into fact and spout it as proof of whatever they want to tear down.

I’d also like to know why you keep on piling on this atheist, specifically anti-Christian, tirades when the owner of this site and its moderators have shut down the topic for a cooling off period.
 
There is nothing wrong with speculating. I just thought it s interesting that according to researcher, famous biblical figures may be using drugs because they re only people who God spoke to them while God disregard the rest of people. There are many people who claimed that God spoke to them in modern era but we threw them in loony bin or locked them up. See any correlation? hmm..
 
Interesting ..maybe he was on mushrooms?
 
shel90 said:
Interesting ..maybe he was on mushrooms?
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Like Case said, the use of mind altering substances and fasting to produce visions is well documented in numerous religions. It is not unreasonable to speculate that it occurrred in Christian religion as well.
 
jillio said:
Like Case said, the use of mind altering substances and fasting to produce visions is well documented in numerous religions. It is not unreasonable to speculate that it occurrred in Christian religion as well.
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Yep we can only speculate bec we can't disprove anything that doesn't have physically evidences in the first place.
 
lumbingmi said:
Huh. This story was wrote by well educated professor. He's no high school dude. He know more about how human's mind work more than ever we will.
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Cognitive human psychology - NOT Theology, or more specifically Biblical Theology. Big difference. He's claiming proficiency in a field he has very little to do with. To me this is likened to a Chiropractor claiming he's found a cure for cancer. Both fields require a high level of education and study but you can't suddenly make the leap from one to the other to make a 'breakthrough discovery'. As before mentioned its wishful thinking not thorough logic or study.
 
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