Is it very frustrating to try to sign with someone when you're fluent and they aren't

I get frustrated when ASL signers think we should all learn ASL and every other sign language is "stupid, slow". When ASL is the sloppiest language out there.

SEE is the first, and thus rules forever =P
 
Chuck said:
I get frustrated when ASL signers think we should all learn ASL and every other sign language is "stupid, slow". When ASL is the sloppiest language out there.

SEE is the first, and thus rules forever =P
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FSH- morpheme
 
Today was my first day back at work..was nice to be back in an ASL environment all day. Communication was so easy and clear among deaf and hearing people. :)

Sure, I love hanging out with my neighbors but it is nice to be in an environment where I am not constantly teaching the other person the correct signs for a lot of words. Just nice to really relax and have free-flowing conversations.
 
Chuck said:
I get frustrated when ASL signers think we should all learn ASL and every other sign language is "stupid, slow". When ASL is the sloppiest language out there.

SEE is the first, and thus rules forever =P
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This statement is along the same line as when the Anglophones view French as "sloppy" here. Just because English and SEE are explicitly stressed, it doesn't means unstressed languages are sloppy.
 
souggy said:
This statement is along the same line as when the Anglophones view French as "sloppy" here. Just because English and SEE are explicitly stressed, it doesn't means unstressed languages are sloppy.
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I like that word, stressed. You're really good with words.

English and SEE are not explicity stressed, there is slang in the english language and there is individual movements an interpreter can make and still have the correct fingers to her sign. ASL people tend to make their signs to align with their body movement, it's really sloppy. VERY.

One person's "non-stressed" ASL sign can mean something totally different with another's same ASL sign. Deaf people have to stop each other sometimes for them to explain a sign or finger spell what they're saying. So it's not standard, is what I'm trying to say here. SEE is standard, ASL is not.
 
Eh, I used to go "SEE, English and German are very blocky" then I was informed by a linguist it is because the consonants are stressed in the Germanic languages unlike the romantic languages which are obviously unstressed.

Second, it is not uncommon for English speakers to stop EACH others to clarify what they means. I get B.C. folks asking me what I means because I use a lot of Albertan vocabulary in my speech, and I haven't really developed a B.C. accent or B.C. lexicon yet.

So it really shouldn't be a surprise when Deaf people do it to each others, especially since vast geography of the States isolates the ASL in each community from each others quite a bit.
 
souggy said:
Eh, I used to go "SEE, English and German are very blocky" then I was informed by a linguist it is because the consonants are stressed in the Germanic languages unlike the romantic languages which are obviously unstressed.

Second, it is not uncommon for English speakers to stop EACH others to clarify what they means. I get B.C. folks asking me what I means because I use a lot of Albertan vocabulary in my speech, and I haven't really developed a B.C. accent or B.C. lexicon yet.
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That's dialects of English. Which obviously there is a difference like you said. But for people within the same area(example:Californians) to constantly stop each other and repeat what they say? Doesn't happen too often.

So it really shouldn't be a surprise when Deaf people do it to each others, especially since vast geography of the States isolates the ASL in each community from each others quite a bit.
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I see ASL as slang english, and SEE as standard english. I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions.

I understand what you're saying about the accents, and there is accents even within the United States, but even still, Americans would understand Americans, Southerners may sound funny to Californians and vice versa, but we understand each other.

Dont mean to turn this into a loooooong discussion but didn't wanna leave you hanging. :hmm:
 
Chuck said:
I see ASL as slang english, and SEE as standard english. I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions.
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You realize you insulted a three-hundred years old language family that has its roots in the 16th century right? From the Old French Sign Language arose numerous languages such as German Sign Language, American Sign Language, French Sign Language, Quebec Sign Language, Irish Sign Language and so on. Not all sign languages derive from the Old LSF since most of them are language isolates, however... you did kinda insult the Spanish religious orders of the 16th and 17th century and as well as the founders who took that and ran with it in 18th century Paris.

Sign Exact English has only been around for what? Since early 1970s? And even then, most of its native users end up dropping the articles, prepositions, prefixes and suffixes in conversations. These would be your -ed, -ing to the point where it start to resemble Pidgin Sign Language. Which by the way, PSE is not a language, nor is it part of SEE but rather a result of what would happen when you mix English native-speakers with ASL and this is as old as ASL itself. My biggest gripe with SEE? It doesn't even truly represent the natural flow of English.

Trust me though, it is not hard to make the transition from SEE to ASL. Just drop the initalizing signs and its grammatical concepts then immerse yourself in ASL videos. Eventually you will get the feel of the language.

It appear to me that you would behove from taking a history lesson on Deaf culture from the time of the Israelites and philosophical Greeks until the present day to truly appreciate ASL or Deaf culture.

Anyway, the only thing that spoken English has over ASL? Mass media. I assure you that before movies (with sounds), records, radios and televisions were invented that English speakers struggled just as much people with ASL did. The observation that hearing people struggle with understanding dialects and accents is evident in the letters and manuscripts prior to the 1900s. I means why you think the French and German haven't standardized written languages with a complete rulebook until recent decades, which by the way English still haven't standardized the rules to their written languages yet. Give it some time, and you will see that the Internet-- along with videophones will "standardize" ASL as more and more of its signers are able to communicate with each others with a flick of the "on" button on their webcams.
 
souggy said:
It appear to me that you would behove from taking a history lesson on Deaf culture from the time of the Israelites and philosophical Greeks until the present day to truly appreciate ASL or Deaf culture.
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What book or webpage should I check out?

I means why you think the French and German haven't standardized written languages with a complete rulebook until recent decades, which by the way English still haven't standardized the rules to their written languages yet. Give it some time, and you will see that the Internet-- along with videophones will "standardize" ASL as more and more of its signers are able to communicate with each others with a flick of the "on" button on their webcams.
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English doesnt standardize anything. There is thousands of new words in the dictionary that werent there 100 years ago. Even 'noob' is getting into the dictionary. When noob can get in it. You know there is no standards. :lol:

I think words get into the dictionary simply on amount of usage in society.
 
Chuck said:
That's dialects of English. Which obviously there is a difference like you said. But for people within the same area(example:Californians) to constantly stop each other and repeat what they say? Doesn't happen too often.
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perhaps it's because you are deaf (or HOH) so how would you know it doesn't happen often?. Fact - yes it does happen a lot. Verbal communication is difficult even for hearing.

Chuck said:
I see ASL as slang english, and SEE as standard english. I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions.
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No offense taken :) That's why we're here to educate you. As we said repeatedly - ASL is a complete language with its own syntax and vocabulary. It's the 3rd largest language in America.

SEE, CS, etc. are NOT a complete language.

Chuck said:
I understand what you're saying about the accents, and there is accents even within the United States, but even still, Americans would understand Americans, Southerners may sound funny to Californians and vice versa, but we understand each other.

Dont mean to turn this into a loooooong discussion but didn't wanna leave you hanging. :hmm:
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Southerners speak in quite a different English syntax. I forget the term called but it's "black" language used back in old days for example.

It's not the accent. It's the syntax of English and usage of certain English words adapted to their style. New Yorker would not understand what Texan says and Californian would not understand what British said. When people do not understand, they revert to "proper" English.
 
Chuck said:
What book or webpage should I check out?
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How about a beginner ASL class? :)

Chuck said:
English doesnt standardize anything. There is thousands of new words in the dictionary that werent there 100 years ago. Even 'noob' is getting into the dictionary. When noob can get in it. You know there is no standards. :lol:

I think words get into the dictionary simply on amount of usage in society.
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what dictionary are you using? Urban Dictionary? :lol:

You will not find "noob" in well-established, reputable dictionary like oxford dictionary and merriam-webster.
 
Jiro said:
perhaps it's because you are deaf (or HOH) so how would you know it doesn't happen often?. Fact - yes it does happen a lot. Verbal communication is difficult even for hearing.


No offense taken :) That's why we're here to educate you. As we said repeatedly - ASL is a complete language with its own syntax and vocabulary. It's the 3rd largest language in America.

SEE, CS, etc. are NOT a complete language.



Southerners speak in quite a different English syntax. I forget the term called but it's "black" language used back in old days for example.

It's not the accent. It's the syntax of English and usage of certain English words adapted to their style. New Yorker would not understand what Texan says and Californian would not understand what British said. When people do not understand, they revert to "proper" English.
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"Black" language? You mean Ebonics?
 
Jiro said:
:hmm: isn't that modern black language? I meant the language that slaves used back in old days.
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I just looked up and you are correct it is a modern language first used in the 1960s/1970s and wasn't widely-known until couple of years ago.

Perhaps, the slaves used Niger-Congo language?
 
Chuck said:
English doesnt standardize anything. There is thousands of new words in the dictionary that werent there 100 years ago. Even 'noob' is getting into the dictionary. When noob can get in it. You know there is no standards.
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Spellings and dictionary meanings are completely different than grammar. What I meant is that there is such thing as "standard French" and "standard German" now since they actually have grammar books that have rules for everything. English still have unwritten rules which make it appear that there are "more exceptions than there are rules." Problem is that you have to understand a myriad of languages before you can even understand the "unwritten rules of written English." That is remain to be seen. I am willing to be we will see a complete guide in the future, since there are more and more resource books for the English grammar as English is becoming the lingua franca of the world.
 
souggy said:
Spellings and dictionary meanings are completely different than grammar. What I meant is that there is such thing as "standard French" and "standard German" now since they actually have grammar books that have rules for everything. English still have unwritten rules which make it appear that there are "more exceptions than there are rules." Problem is that you have to understand a myriad of languages before you can even understand the "unwritten rules of written English." That is remain to be seen. I am willing to be we will see a complete guide in the future, since there are more and more resource books for the English grammar as English is becoming the lingua franca of the world.
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unwritten rules? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Of course English has written rules. It's just that English has a more complicated rules than others.
 
Jiro, in S. Ga, there was an island called Gullah. Stranded slaves, escaped or born there, they spoke Gullah. Island culture is still there, and Gullah is a dying language. It was a mixture of African languages is what we were taught about it in the old days.

I hope this is what you were thinking of.
 
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