Is ASL Music an Oxymoron?

ASLGAL said:
Amy's Vlog

What do you think?
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I think this person is overthinking this a bit. What I read was that the lyrics of songs are being translated using ASL. I don't see an oxymoron about that. Remember that songs are nothing more than a poem put to music. Translating the lyrics (the poem) to ASL is not the same as trying to put the music to ASL which may prove difficult if even possible. Just my two cents worth.
 
From auditory art to visual art. Take the theme of the music and convey it through sign in an artful manner.

There's at least one man on youtube who does this with BSL - wish I could understand more. He is good I think even if I don't understand BSL yet! :)
 
doh said:
From auditory art to visual art. Take the theme of the music and convey it through sign in an artful manner.

There's at least one man on youtube who does this with BSL - wish I could understand more. He is good I think even if I don't understand BSL yet! :)
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That's pretty good. It seems like that dude has some hearing though. It's still very expressive and I suppose with the dancing around you are kind of putting the music to sign language. If I didn't hear the music it would be kind of like ASL storytelling maybe.
 
rockdrummer said:
That's pretty good. It seems like that dude has some hearing though. It's still very expressive and I suppose with the dancing around you are kind of putting the music to sign language. If I didn't hear the music it would be kind of like ASL storytelling maybe.
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What is music but rhythm and melody? Both can be conveyed visually.
 
Thanks for the input.

I stumbled onto that vlog today and see her point but had always enjoyed signed music, modern/religious/and so on.
I honestly didn't know how to feel about it and it truly had not crossed my mind that folks would be offended by it.

Deaf and hearing ASL teachers have used signing songs as a teaching tool for years.

Anyway - thanks again :)
 
As a beginner...I enjoyed her Vlog but, since I am hearing I realize that I will NEVER be able to gain the deaf perspective. "Imagining' deafness is just not the same as not hearing for life! Therefore, as much as I enjoyed the BSL, I could hear the music...DUH!

John
 
JonRobrt said:
As a beginner...I enjoyed her Vlog but, since I am hearing I realize that I will NEVER be able to gain the deaf perspective. "Imagining' deafness is just not the same as not hearing for life! Therefore, as much as I enjoyed the BSL, I could hear the music...DUH!

John
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Mute it. It's a better performance because it's a man doing visual art and not a man signing to music. ;)
 
doh,

Yes, I could mute the sound but, my main point was with regards to those (people) who are deaf from birth! It would be pompous for me to suggest, even with the sound muted, that I could ever truly gain their perspective. I could try but, I have experienced something (sound) and developed neural pathways they can never have. It is simply apples and oranges. Art for most is visual and sometimes can include sound (think Foley artists). Other artistic displays, pantomime for example, can be completely silent and wonderful to observe (Tia Chi can look beautifully poetic) but, do they generate the same types of physiological responses that music does to the listener? Such a study could be done and the results would be very interesting to me. When I first began studying ASL I used to think that, if I had to lose one of my senses, I would pick my hearing. Why? Because it would be 'easier' to live independently (though blind people can be 100% independent too). Now, as I gain more of the Deaf perspective, I am questioning my, "what if..." scenario. Music has moved me to tears, brought me great joy and generated so many different wonderful feelings inside me that I do ache with remorse for the Deaf from time to time. I KNOW they do not want pity. All I am saying is that I never really considered deafness a big deal and ultimately, I suppose that is the goal of the Deaf community as a whole but now, the impact of this loss of sense is becoming more apparent to me than ever. It is true: losing the ability to experience music is a tragedy on whatever level of importance you wish to place there and the video on Amy's Vlog of the Bison Song and the excitement generated in those kids is the REAL example of what music can do. Music needs to be FELT to be experience or, it is simply NOT music, it is visual performance art... Sorry so long kids:-((

Have a great Sunday!
John


NOTE: Some deaf do look poetic and their signing can look quited beautiful, my teachers fascinate me with the rythmic beauty of their signing and the "stillness" lends to a peacefulness for the Hearing that is hard to describe!
 
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Before I start... Hi. I'm new here... :wave:

The very first thing (of several) that made me want to learn ASL was watching the 'terps on stage at the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, interpreting everything from slam poetry to the lyrics of the musical performances. When it came to the music, I watched as every part of their bodies went into interpretation. It was not just the lyrics... it was the beat... it was the melody... and anything else that would bring integrity to the description of the performance.

Of course, "ASL music" is different. Do I find it to be an oxymoron? No.

doh, thanks for sharing that BSL video performance. I did keep my computer muted, and I only wish that I hadn't seen the title of the song before I started watching. Had I not known the title, I wonder if I would have known what song he was signing/performing.

At this point, I'm a mere infant in my ASL studies.
 
JonRobrt said:
doh,

Yes, I could mute the sound but, my main point was with regards to those (people) who are deaf from birth! It would be pompous for me to suggest, even with the sound muted, that I could ever truly gain their perspective. I could try but, I have experienced something (sound) and developed neural pathways they can never have. It is simply apples and oranges. Art for most is visual and sometimes can include sound (think Foley artists). Other artistic displays, pantomime for example, can be completely silent and wonderful to observe (Tia Chi can look beautifully poetic) but, do they generate the same types of physiological responses that music does to the listener? Such a study could be done and the results would be very interesting to me. When I first began studying ASL I used to think that, if I had to lose one of my senses, I would pick my hearing. Why? Because it would be 'easier' to live independently (though blind people can be 100% independent too). Now, as I gain more of the Deaf perspective, I am questioning my, "what if..." scenario. Music has moved me to tears, brought me great joy and generated so many different wonderful feelings inside me that I do ache with remorse for the Deaf from time to time. I KNOW they do not want pity. All I am saying is that I never really considered deafness a big deal and ultimately, I suppose that is the goal of the Deaf community as a whole but now, the impact of this loss of sense is becoming more apparent to me than ever. It is true: losing the ability to experience music is a tragedy on whatever level of importance you wish to place there and the video on Amy's Vlog of the Bison Song and the excitement generated in those kids is the REAL example of what music can do. Music needs to be FELT to be experience or, it is simply NOT music, it is visual performance art... Sorry so long kids:-((

Have a great Sunday!
John


NOTE: Some deaf do look poetic and their signing can look quited beautiful, my teachers fascinate me with the rythmic beauty of their signing and the "stillness" lends to a peacefulness for the Hearing that is hard to describe!
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One can "feel" music vibrationally, as well as visually. Music seen is every bit as beautiful as music heard. Just ask Beetoven.
 
Yes, I am aware of Beethoven's loss of hearing and I certainly do not disagree with you. What I was saying is that I cannot make a unbiased judgment in this matter because I am hearing! I am aware of the vibrational translation (i.e. Bison Song!). You do not say whether you are deaf or hearing! We can try but, I can never be sure of the truly silent experience, nor do I think any hearing person could. For example, bagpipes playing Amazing Grace at my fathers funeral was a purely auditory experience.


Please understand that I am saying, "I do not know!" NOT "I do know:))"

John
 
We can try but, I can never be sure of the truly silent experience, nor do I think any hearing person could.
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I was losing hearing over the years, so I can remember what music sounded like before I lost the ability to hear most of it. IMO it's impossible to experience it without hearing. It's just .... barely possible to truly experience music by vibration the way it really sounds, IMO.
Since I do feel some vibration I can tell it's nowehere close to the real sound.
but then the question is- does it have to be?

Fuzzy
 
Dont forget that most music also has words. I know words can also be conveyed visually.
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And that's about it... if you are unable to hear the music, "seeying" words it's like dancing without musical accompaniment. It's doable, but..

Not that I am knocking down deaf version of music- I think it's just fine thing. As a deaf person one has other means to convey the feelings. Is as avild as everything else.
But truthfully, deafness is a reason why deaf people can not experience everything what hearing can.


Fuzzy
 
JonRobrt said:
Yes, I am aware of Beethoven's loss of hearing and I certainly do not disagree with you. What I was saying is that I cannot make a unbiased judgment in this matter because I am hearing! I am aware of the vibrational translation (i.e. Bison Song!). You do not say whether you are deaf or hearing! We can try but, I can never be sure of the truly silent experience, nor do I think any hearing person could. For example, bagpipes playing Amazing Grace at my fathers funeral was a purely auditory experience.

Try to close your eyes and concentrate fully ont he experience of the sound, and I thinkthat you will find that you do experience sound---especially soemthing like the sound of bagpipes---kinesthetically. It is jsut that the kinesthetic perception is not necessary to your interpretation of the sound, so you do not pay close attention to it.

When you dance, it is a kinestheic perception of the rhythm of the music. You pay closer attention, because the kinesthetic perception is important to the interpretation.
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Try to close your eyes and concentrate fully ont he experience of the sound, and I thinkthat you will find that you do experience sound---especially soemthing like the sound of bagpipes---kinesthetically. It is jsut that the kinesthetic perception is not necessary to your interpretation of the sound, so you do not pay close attention to it.
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and if one closes eyes, and doesn't feel much vibration at all - just some deepest, strongest bass - then what kind of experience is that, kinesthetically?

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
and if one closes eyes, and doesn't feel much vibration at all - just some deepest, strongest bass - then what kind of experience is that, kinesthetically?

Fuzzy
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It is a minimal kinesthetic experience based on those sound waves that create the densest, and therefore, most readily perceived, vibrations. Thekey is concentration, and blocking out the distraction that creates the failure to receognize the kinesthetic perception. Innate kinesthetic awareness varies within groups; however, training can increase awareness.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And that's about it... if you are unable to hear the music, "seeying" words it's like dancing without musical accompaniment. It's doable, but..

Not that I am knocking down deaf version of music- I think it's just fine thing. As a deaf person one has other means to convey the feelings. Is as avild as everything else.
But truthfully, deafness is a reason why deaf people can not experience everything what hearing can.


Fuzzy
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No, it would be dancing without melody. One can still perceive the rhythm, and rhythm is the very foundation of music. Melody does not exist without rhythm.
 
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