If Deaf never had sign language, would you hearing still want to know us??

What really irritates me is the people wanting to learn sign language. They go to college take sign class. Come to our all deaf church. During sunday school they wont even attempt to fellowship. They will sit there. We deaf go over shake hands and sign slow....welcome. my name..blahblah...what your name....they answer...but it like pulling teeth. The hearing not show interest at all in us Deaf. Only want stand back and watch us sign, but not sign with us. I not understand. We have the same students levels 1-6 come every sunday. They sit together. Fellowship by themselves. Not with us Deaf. We Deaf have talk about this and feel like why do they come if they not talk fellowship with us. They only come watch our signs. Yes, make many us Deaf sad.
 
deafgam said:
What really irritates me is the people wanting to learn sign language. They go to college take sign class. Come to our all deaf church. During sunday school they wont even attempt to fellowship. They will sit there. We deaf go over shake hands and sign slow....welcome. my name..blahblah...what your name....they answer...but it like pulling teeth. The hearing not show interest at all in us Deaf. Only want stand back and watch us sign, but not sign with us. I not understand. We have the same students levels 1-6 come every sunday. They sit together. Fellowship by themselves. Not with us Deaf. We Deaf have talk about this and feel like why do they come if they not talk fellowship with us. They only come watch our signs. Yes, make many us Deaf sad.
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If they were trying to learn French, Italian, Korean, Cantonese: they would do these same things you've just mentioned. They watch you to gain insight on how to Sign with flow. They're trying to pick up on things that will help them as students, new to the language, and trying to master what little they've already studied. The difference between other ethnic groups and the deaf community is that most Europeans and Asians are delighted people have an interest in learning about them, especially those with difficult languages to learn: Arabic, Russian, Korean, Chinese and Japanese. They also tend to be very forgiving of the things you mention. The ASL students sit with themselves because they're shy and you've probably show your distain; why would they try to sit next to you to continue talking?

When I was trying to learn Sign, years ago in college, we were required to find a table with deaf students and introduce ourselves and "start signing." It was a stupid assignment (the teacher was deaf BTW). I was uncomfortable so I never did this, particularly since those that I met through my classes didn’t seem very friendly and inviting. I used to gear other students to take Spanish or Italian, as I later did; the experiences one had interacting with native speakers were generally more positive and fun. ALL students at the college level are required to take a language and most do so for credit only. They choose languages based on what they hope will be easier to learn and what doesn’t conflict, schedule wise, with their other required courses that aren’t always offered every semester.

If you’ve ever wondered more schools don’t offer Sign language, this is it in a nutshell from a student’s perspective: who would even want to learn a language where they would be treated with suspicion for trying?

Laura
 
^^ Interesting. I see the opposite; ASL students at my home state have positive experiences. I enjoy chatting with new students at Deaf Coffee, and it is still fun. :dunno:

I am sorry that you didn't get positive experiences enough.
 
How about turning the table on this , I went to the office for deaf and hoh in collage for help and there where only students there that where deaf and they did not want to help me because I do not know ASL. I am very hoh but the deaf students did not want get to know me or help me as a new student.
 
Sighs...

You seriously need to keep in your mind that there are different local regions, locations, and anywhere. That depends on local Deaf groups. You should try Deaf Oregonians or Washingtonians for one explain. I meet Deaf Pennsylvanians a while ago and they're still very social and chatty. I see no complaints from new ASL students when they meet them. I am sure that I would have no problem with you if you want to learn ASL and you are in Oregon. You clearly missed out of those are plenty of awesome Deaf people...

Again, I am sorry that you have a bad experience with only few Deaf groups...
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Sighs... You seriously need to keep in your mind that there are different local regions, locations, and anywhere. That depends on local Deaf groups. You should try Deaf Oregonians or Washingtonians for one explain. I meet Deaf Pennsylvanians a while ago and they're still very social and chatty. I see no complaints from new ASL students when they meet them. I am sure that I would have no problem with you if you want to learn ASL and you are in Oregon. You clearly missed out of those are plenty of awesome Deaf people... Again, I am sorry that you have a bad experience with only few Deaf groups...
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Did you not read my first thread? I am profoundly DEAF ! I not hear at all. I am sharing about those who come into my life, church, and into our Deaf culture who only interest is in signs only. They not interest in going Deaf chats, Deaf meetings and socials, no they want stand in their own churches and sign music specials and get pats on backs and praises for their good performances. It those groups that not want us Deaf . Only our language to benefit themselves not to fellowship with Deaf. no not all hearing like this...only some i met. It sad...make Deaf wonder where we come in ....why they want just learn signs if not talk with us.
 
deafgam said:
Did you not read my first thread? I am profoundly DEAF ! I not hear at all. I am sharing about those who come into my life, church, and into our Deaf culture who only interest is in signs only. They not interest in going Deaf chats, Deaf meetings and socials, no they want stand in their own churches and sign music specials and get pats on backs and praises for their good performances. It those groups that not want us Deaf . Only our language to benefit themselves not to fellowship with Deaf. no not all hearing like this...only some i met. It sad...make Deaf wonder where we come in ....why they want just learn signs if not talk with us.
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I wonder if they are just nervous? With ASL, I get nervous signing with new people because my vocab isn't huge and my grammar sucks. Same with Spanish--I know it, can read and understand it...but I won't speak because I sound too American and it's embarrassing.

That aside, if I were to go to a Deaf church, I would do the same thing I did when I started going to my church. I would introduce myself to everyone who said hi and try to learn names (still working on that part...) and get to know everyone. If they are going to a service in ASL, they must be able to understand and communicate well enough to have basic first-time-meeting type chats with the congregation.

I could be wrong. They could just be dicks and are just there to say they're there, and how cool are they? Who knows... :/
 
deafgam said:
Did you not read my first thread? I am profoundly DEAF ! I not hear at all. I am sharing about those who come into my life, church, and into our Deaf culture who only interest is in signs only. They not interest in going Deaf chats, Deaf meetings and socials, no they want stand in their own churches and sign music specials and get pats on backs and praises for their good performances. It those groups that not want us Deaf . Only our language to benefit themselves not to fellowship with Deaf. no not all hearing like this...only some i met. It sad...make Deaf wonder where we come in ....why they want just learn signs if not talk with us.
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Yes, I did read your first post, and my previous post is not for you, actually. But, I'll answer your question, anyway. If ASL and sign languages do not exist, our world will lost a plenty of wonderful benefits of non-spoken languages. There would be no baby sign languages, My Smart Hands, Clerc's Children, ASLE, and so on. Hearing toddlers or infants would not learn earlier via visual educational signs.

If there is no ASL, then I would be different KarissaMann05 by now, plus, my reading and writing skills would be sticky so bad. Oralism or speech therapy won't help me, either. I would be such fucked up without ASL.
 
deafgam said:
I often wonder.....many hearing say they love the Deaf. But is it the signs the hearing love? if we deaf never had a language, would hearing still want be our friends, help us, want to know us, ????
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I can only speak for myself, but of course I would want to know you. Without a doubt. Hearing and Deaf cultures are so immensely different and each are worth knowing and being educated about. That said, though, I'm a bit of a xenophile -- I like to know as much as possible about as many things as I can -- cultures especially. Different cultures are absolutely fascinating, only because I'm comparing them to what I know. I'm actively learning ASL not only because I love the language, but because I'm developing an affection for the culture. However, I'm a little worried that my enthusiasm will come off as invasive, though. :/

I can definitely see where you're coming from in asking if hearing folks are just in love with the signs. I can understand where this may actually be true, but I don't think it applies to me. (Is "hearies" slang, like endearing slang, or is it offensive? I have yet to come across the term in "real life".)

For me personally, it's the idea of communicating without "words" that draws me in. I have noticed that Deaf people are highly, highly attuned to others' facial expressions, body movements, and the like -- even the most subtle change or flicker in expression will be noticed. It really is amazing. I'm still walking the fine line, trying to figure out what questions/opinions may be considered offensive or annoying, but I've just got to be me and I'll (we'll :) ) figure it out along the way. I have also noticed that Deaf people are very much up front, to the point, and blunt, which I think is a really respectable trait. And like I said before, I'm worried that my enthusiasm will come off as invasive. I'm not trying to change or control anything or anyone -- I'm just a sponge that wants to learn.

One thing I do find interesting is the dominant hand vs non-dominant hand in regards to inconsistent signing. My professor told me -- strongly -- that it's akin to nails on a chalkboard for us hearing people. I'll never forget that.
 
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When you are friends with a person, you love all of them... not just one part of them. If sign language didn't exist, I would still be with the Deaf community because of the people in it, not just the language. The Deaf community is just like anything else. If the people are mean, you wouldn't want to be around them anyway, even if you were there only to sign. Personally though I see more in people than the language they use to communicate. Yes, ASL is fascinating to me, which is what made me want to be a terp, but I think if ASL didn't exist, then I would find other ways to communicate throughout the Deaf community, because I feel like this is where I belong. :D :ily: (Interesting question, but sort of narrow minded... don't ya think?? :/)
deafgam said:
I often wonder.....many hearing say they love the Deaf. But is it the signs the hearing love? if we deaf never had a language, would hearing still want be our friends, help us, want to know us, ????


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deafgam said:
What really irritates me is the people wanting to learn sign language. They go to college take sign class. Come to our all deaf church. During sunday school they wont even attempt to fellowship. They will sit there. We deaf go over shake hands and sign slow....welcome. my name..blahblah...what your name....they answer...but it like pulling teeth. The hearing not show interest at all in us Deaf. Only want stand back and watch us sign, but not sign with us. I not understand. We have the same students levels 1-6 come every sunday. They sit together. Fellowship by themselves. Not with us Deaf. We Deaf have talk about this and feel like why do they come if they not talk fellowship with us. They only come watch our signs. Yes, make many us Deaf sad.
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That's rude :-( I am sorry to hear that!! Why do they bother taking ASL if they aren't going to use it?? I have seen people do it as well at silent dinners and such... it makes me wonder why they bother to sign up for ASL in the first place...
 
This really is a loaded question, I was not sure if I should even answer because I don't want to make people mad or push people away before I have even had a chance to get to know people here. I will just speak for myself, from my experiences, because that is really all that any of us can do.

I am hearing. I have never been exposed to Deaf culture or really even deaf people for any length of time, never really many HOH people either. I will say that even as a young child I remember being drawn to ASL, I think it is a beautiful language and so expressive, you put your whole person into communicating with another person. But, I think that many other languages are beautiful as well, I take an interest in learning about people and what makes them who they are- both their struggles and their triumphs (probably why I have chosen to work in a social services related field). I am a very shy person for the most part, have always been that way. I feel awkward sometimes in social situations and the way I first start off when meeting people is to be quiet and observant (I might be getting off topic a little, but I feel it is important for you to know how I view myself in order to understand the answers that come).

In relation to the original question, about hearing people saying they "love the Deaf" and would we still "love the Deaf" if there was no ASL. I have to believe that I would. I have a friend who is deaf-blind (she can hear speech with hearing aids but still has trouble sometimes) and I like her and care about her because of WHO she is, not because she is deaf or blind (BTW- she is just now learning ASL, so she does not communicate that way, if that makes a difference). I like people for who they are, not only because of their abilities or "cool language". I do think that people are drawn to other people sometimes BECAUSE of their differences, because they see something or someone different than themselves and are curious about it. I think most people are naturally curious about things they don't know- we explore the world around us in order to learn more about it. So, some people probably are drawn to Deaf culture because of their curiosity of the language (but I also think people are drawn to Jamaican culture and Latino culture and any other culture because of it's language as well). But the people who genuinely CARE about the people they meet in those cultures WILL stick around if you let them (that might have been a bit off the topic too- just thought it was important to add).

That being said, I do think that it is hard for the hearing to really get involved in the Deaf community. In my area I am not even sure how much of a Deaf community there is! (I live in a county with a population of about 70,000 I think) If we as hearing people want to learn ASL (in order to communicate, not just because it is "cool"), it is hard for us to be able to use it once we do (first because we are hearing trying to enter into your world and second because places like mine we might not be even sure if there IS a Deaf community locally). And everyone knows that if you don't use something (skill or language), you eventually lose it to an extent. Until now, I have not really had a push to learn ASL because of time and worry that "how will I use it". And to be honest, the only reason I am really having that push right now is because my 3 year old daughter is deaf (this has not been confirmed yet as to what kind of loss, we are waiting on a sedated ABR- but I am proceeding with things as this is a permanent thing and this is our life now). You might hate me for that comment, but I said I would be honest and speak from my experiences. I NEED to learn ASL and Deaf culture because someone I LOVE (as a person, not because of ASL because she doesn't know it!) is probably going to be deaf for the rest of her life! I NEED to know that she is going to be ok in life and that I can still communicate with her and that she can communicate with other people (and possibly have a community where she feels accepted and fits in). So, I have probably strayed too off topic here, but I think it is important for you to know that just because a person is hearing doesn't mean that we are shallow (which I feel is what was implied by the original question). I am a human being too and I like other human beings because of WHO they are, not because of a language that is different than mine, even if I might initially be DRAWN to a person because of that difference- I STAY because of WHO they are. Maybe those you have encountered that say they "love the Deaf" really are just drawn because of the language and the culture, because it is different (and sometimes different is exciting)- and maybe they haven't stayed or kept that interest because it has been hard for them to break through that wall that seems to be put up against hearing people (not saying it isn't sometimes justified). Most people give up when things get too tough, they go back to what they know and what they are comfortable with- just as you do sometimes.

Oh, and the other part of that question: would we still want to help deaf people if they didn't have ASL? I can only speak for myself, but I would say yes. In my work especially, as that is my job to help people no matter what their abilities or limitations are. But also personally, I try to help those in my life as much as I can. I don't care about a language, I care about the person...

Sorry so long, I just hope this helps someone better understand at least one hearing person's point of view.
 
Friends with Deaf

Sweet_Candice86 said:
I am hearing. I think to suggest that we hearing people only like the appeal of signing, is like saying someone only like a guy from Paris b/c he has a French Accent and speaks French. That sort of thinking basically says that we are shallow people that don't really love people who do things differently than us. I don't exclusively like Deaf persons, but I have had friends and acquaintances in the deaf community, so I wouldn't be against the idea of finding "Mr. Right" in the deaf community. Just like I wouldn't be against the idea of "Mr. Right" was from any other community that I am not a part of. I don't care how a guy communicates, as long as he looks decent, has a job/career that can support a family, loves kids/wants more kids(b/c I already have a 6 year old daughter), and knows how to/ will respect and treat me and my daughter the way we should be treated. To be honest, I have found nothing but dirt-bags in the "hearing world" who have been from all communities and walks of life. So please don't insinuate that we "hearing people" could only be interested in "deaf people" b/c of ASL. That is also insulting to people who are deaf, b/c that implies that the only reason a "hearing person" could be interested in a "deaf person" is b/c they want to sign. That is insulting on any level.

If anyone has any comments, please do so.
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I have to agree with you in several areas. I too have found nothing but jerks within the "hearing world" and am not apposed to dating someone within the Deaf community. For me it's not the language which is very beautiful, but the people. I actually knew a man that I'd gone to church with who was Deaf. He had NO LANGUAGE SKILLS of any kind, he didn't know sign, didn't know how to write, read, he literally had no communication skills but his heart was obvious and that's what drew me to him as a friend. I befriended him and we managed to find a way to communicate, so yes, if the Deaf community had no language or even communication skills I would happily want to know and be part of their world. Again, I don't look at that in a person, I look at what's in the heart, and that will show no matter what communication ability a person has or doesn't have. I also have to agree that it's an insult to assume that all people within the hearing community are jerks. You have good and bad in every community so please just as you would not want to be all lumped together, don't do that to us either.
 
Jade Skye- long yes, but you explained it very beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Really enjoyed reading your post. Thank you for loving those who are close to your heart. Deaf or hearing rather ASL is in their future life or not, you see the persons heart, soul, and beauty. Those people in your life are blessed to have you apart of theirs.
 
Brenda9995 said:
Yes, I would still love the Deaf if they didn't have sign language. I have been trying to learn sign language but I find that the Deaf in my area are very protective of themselves and their culture. I guess I can understand how they could come to that place. However, how can us hearing/HOH people make friends if they don't want to talk to us or show us their real language. A lot of people say they're learning ASL but the truth is they are trying to memorize a sign language dictionary. ASL can't be learned or used properly until it is taught by the Deaf themselves and I'm not speaking of only classroom situations, but life situations. I'm about ready to give up on trying to learn. How I long for a Deaf friend who believes in sharing her language.
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Brenda,@ I am a older adult with late deafness. I am trying to learn signs .but it is very hard to teach your self. There are none that I know of in the area I live in and the college here does not teach it w would have to go 300 miles to learn. Yet yes I need to comunicate with others and it is hard to explain that to them. I have recently found a coffee shop that people go to that may sign. But would like to meet others that do sign . Learn so if you do come in contact with someone you will know how to talk with them. I think everyone should know basic signs. people who work in the public eye should be aware of this language and how to use it.
 
deafgam said:
What really irritates me is the people wanting to learn sign language. They go to college take sign class. Come to our all deaf church. During sunday school they wont even attempt to fellowship. They will sit there. We deaf go over shake hands and sign slow....welcome. my name..blahblah...what your name....they answer...but it like pulling teeth. The hearing not show interest at all in us Deaf. Only want stand back and watch us sign, but not sign with us. I not understand. We have the same students levels 1-6 come every sunday. They sit together. Fellowship by themselves. Not with us Deaf. We Deaf have talk about this and feel like why do they come if they not talk fellowship with us. They only come watch our signs. Yes, make many us Deaf sad.
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This is one of the reasons that I think everyone should be given a chance to learn. even basic sign.. to get them started. Fellowship in a church you would think someone would learn to be a teacher and help them know. What god is all about, But also this is why that deaf people dont want to be in the public eye. Especially if they have anyone who is deaf come to church or a area where anyone is..
 
deafgam said:
I often wonder.....many hearing say they love the Deaf. But is it the signs the hearing love? if we deaf never had a language, would hearing still want be our friends, help us, want to know us, ????
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I can only comment from my point of view, and I am going to be completely honest.
I can hear, but I have no voice.
The hearing get frustrated that I can't speak, and I often get frustrated they don't understand me. (It's even more frustrating that I understand them easily, so I know exactly what they want and just can't communicate it to them.) They expect me to have a voice for them to hear, but I just don't have one.
I do my best to communicate with them, but it's always limited to short banter scrawled on my writing tablet. That really puts a damper on real friendship.
The Deaf, on the other hand, don't care that I can't speak. Those I've talked with were curious about the details of my inability to speak, but I was just a person to them. I wasn't an inconvenience, or stupid, or any of the other negatives most people I encounter tend to put on me.
I don't care what language you use.
I like ASL, I think it's an excellent language and I strongly prefer it over English.... However, no matter the language, yes, I would still want to make friends among the Deaf.

I spent the vast majority of my life among people who think I'm stupid for being unable to speak. It has done me no favors. Even the guy I live with doesn't say much to me, other than to yell at me when he's frustrated he can't get an answer from me if he's in another room. He insists he's my friend, but when he's home, I'm still on my laptop alone despite him sitting right across from me. and he has thrown my lack of voice back in my face more times than I care to think about. He thinks it's funny.
That's not the type of person I care to spend my time with.

Of course, having no voice makes my point of view a little unique.
 
Why don't the beginning ASL hearing students share fellowship with you at church? I can't answer for them, but I can tell you my story: I started learning ASL two years ago, once my hearing started deteriorating rapidly. I have to admit, that the first year I was learning, I did lurk at some deaf events. Why? Because even though I went to ASL classes to learn the language, I didn't know enough, or feel comfortable enough to use it yet. I wanted to see the language in use first. So yes, I watched deaf people interact with each other. I would sometimes introduce myself to someone, "hi, my name is...what is your name...where do you work....", but mostly I wanted to watch the culture. Once I got more comfortable, I started to use my ASL and interact with deaf and other hoh people with my ASL. It is very intimidating for someone with a new language to use it with a native speaker, especially when the new learner knows nothing about the other's culture.

I watched from the outside for a while, until I felt I knew enough to interact with the language and the culture. Plus, because I am a bit shy, that made it even harder. But now I feel much more comfortable to interact with deaf and hoh. When I go to deaf events, I sign and try to be part of the event, even though I know my ASL still needs a lot of work. Honestly, I still feel shy and unsure, even though I make an effort now to interact. My hope is, that if I keep learning my ASL and go to places where deaf and other hoh people are, that I will eventually become comfortable and be able to make friends with someone else who is like me. At least I am to the point though where I can communicate what I am trying to say (even though it isn't always pretty, or the right way to sign it).
 
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CuriouslyMute said:
I can only comment from my point of view, and I am going to be completely honest.
I can hear, but I have no voice.
The hearing get frustrated that I can't speak, and I often get frustrated they don't understand me. (It's even more frustrating that I understand them easily, so I know exactly what they want and just can't communicate it to them.) They expect me to have a voice for them to hear, but I just don't have one.
I do my best to communicate with them, but it's always limited to short banter scrawled on my writing tablet. That really puts a damper on real friendship.
The Deaf, on the other hand, don't care that I can't speak. Those I've talked with were curious about the details of my inability to speak, but I was just a person to them. I wasn't an inconvenience, or stupid, or any of the other negatives most people I encounter tend to put on me.
I don't care what language you use.
I like ASL, I think it's an excellent language and I strongly prefer it over English.... However, no matter the language, yes, I would still want to make friends among the Deaf.

I spent the vast majority of my life among people who think I'm stupid for being unable to speak. It has done me no favors. Even the guy I live with doesn't say much to me, other than to yell at me when he's frustrated he can't get an answer from me if he's in another room. He insists he's my friend, but when he's home, I'm still on my laptop alone despite him sitting right across from me. and he has thrown my lack of voice back in my face more times than I care to think about. He thinks it's funny.
That's not the type of person I care to spend my time with.

Of course, having no voice makes my point of view a little unique.
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Have you seen the Boogie Boards sold by Brookstone? I just got a boogie board RIP. It. Has the advantage of saving everything that is written or drawn on it as a PDF file and so u can download it to computer to save or print.
 
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