HIV+ Bug Chasers

Heath

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The men who long to be HIV+ Carlos nonchalantly asks whether his drink was made with whole or skim milk. He takes a moment to slurp on his grande Caffe Mocha in a crowded Starbucks, and then he gets back to explaining how much he wants HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. His eyes light up as he says that the actual moment of transmission, the instant he gets HIV, will be "the most erotic thing I can imagine." He seems like a typical thirty-two-year-old man, but, in fact, he has a secret life. Carlos is chasing the bug.
"I know what the risks are, and I know that putting myself in this situation is like putting a gun to my head," he says. Some of that mountain music that's so popular is playing, making the moment even more surreal as a Southern voice sings, "Keep on the sunny side of life" behind Carlos. "But I think it turns the other guy on to know that I'm negative and that they're bringing me into the brotherhood. That gets me off, too."

I met Carlos in New York's Greenwich Village, the neighborhood where he usually hangs out. He is tall, with a large build, and plenty of gay men find him attractive. His longish, curly-wavy hair is jet-black with golden highlights, and his face is soft and just a bit feminine. He has a very appealing smile and laugh, and he's a funny guy sometimes. The conversation veers from the banal -- his fascination with the reality show The Amazing Race -- to his desire for HIV. Carlos' tone never changes when switching from one topic to the other.

When asked whether he is prepared to live with HIV after that "erotic" moment, Carlos dismisses living with HIV as a minor annoyance. Like most bug chasers, he has the impression that the virus just isn't such a big deal anymore: "It's like living with diabetes. You take a few pills and get on with your life." Carlos spends the afternoon continually calling a man named Richard, someone he met on the Internet. They met on barebackcity.com about a year ago, while Carlos was still with his boyfriend. That boyfriend left because Carlos was having sex with other men and because he was interested in barebacking -- the practice of having sex without a condom. Carlos and Richard are arranging a "date" for later that day.

Carlos is part of an intricate underground world that has sprouted, driven almost completely by the Internet, in which men who want to be infected with HIV get together with those who are willing to infect them. The men who want the virus are called "bug chasers," and the men who freely give the virus to them are called "gift givers." While the rest of the world fights the AIDS epidemic and most people fear HIV infection, this subculture celebrates the virus and eroticizes it. HIV-infected semen is treated like liquid gold. Carlos has been chasing the bug for more than a year in a topsy-turvy world in which every convention about HIV is turned upside down. The virus isn't horrible and fearsome, it's beautiful and sexy -- and delivered in the way that is most likely to result in infection. In this world, the men with HIV are the most desired, and the bug chasers will do anything to get the virus -- to "get knocked up," to be "bred" or "initiated into the brotherhood."

Like a lot of sexual fetishes and extreme behaviors, bug chasing could not exist without the Internet, or at least it couldn't thrive. Prior to the advent of Web surfing and e-mail, it would have been practically impossible for bug chasing to happen in any great numbers, because it's still not acceptable to walk up to a stranger and say you want the virus. But the Internet's anonymity and broad access make it possible to find someone with like interests, no matter how outlandish. Carlos surfs online about twenty hours a week looking for men to have sex with, usually frequenting sites such as bareback.com and barebackcity.com, plus a number of Internet discussion groups. Most of the Web sites use the pretense that they actually are about barebacking, which is in itself risky and controversial but still a long way from bug chasing. For the Web sites, that distinction is at best razor-thin and more often just an outright lie. "We got Poz4Poz, Neg4Neg and bug chasers looking to join the club," the welcome page to barebackcity.com, which claims 48,000 registered users, up from 28,000 about a year ago, recently said. "Be the first to seed a newbie and give him a pozitive attitude!"

Within this online community, bug chasers revel in their desires, using their own lingo about "poz" and "neg" men, "bug juice" and "conversion" from negative to positive. User profiles include names such as BugChaser21, Knockmeup, BugMeSoon, ConvertMeSir, PozCum4NegHole and GiftGiver. The posters are upfront about seeking HIV, even extremely enthusiastic, possibly because the Web sites are about the only place a bug seeker can really express his desires openly. Under turn-ons, a poster called PozMeChgo craves a "hot poz load deep in me. I really want to be converted!! Breed me/seed me!" Carlos' profile on one Web site lists his screen name as ConvertMe, and he says he wants a man "to fill me up with that poison seed." His AOL Instant Messenger name is Bug Juice Wanted.

It's not uncommon to see people post replies to the profiles encouraging the men to seek HIV. One such comment reads, "This guy knows what he wants!! I would love to plant my seeds ) Come and join the club. The more we are, the stronger we are." A Yahoo! spokeswoman confirms that the company shuts down such sites when it receives notice that the subscribers are promoting HIV infection or any other kind of harm to one another, but the company doesn't go looking for bug chasers in its thousands of discussion groups, most established by subscribers themselves. Recently, it was easy to find two discussion groups on Yahoo! that promoted bug chasing, one called barebackover50 and one called gayextremebareback. The first discussion group was established in 1998 and had 1,439 members at the end of 2002. Yahoo! closed the group after Rolling Stone inquired about it.

Condoms and safe sex are openly ridiculed on bug-chasing Web sites, with many bug chasers rebelling against what they see as the dogma of safe-sex education; constantly thinking about a deadly disease takes all the fun out of sex, they say, and condoms suck. Carlos agrees and says getting HIV will make safe sex a moot point. "It's about freedom," he says. "What else can happen to us after this? You can **** whoever you want, **** as much as you want, and nothing worse can happen to you. Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV."

For some, the chase is a pragmatic move. They see HIV infection as inevitable because of their unsafe sex or needle sharing, so they decide to take control of the situation and infect themselves. It's empowering. They're no longer victims waiting to be infected; rather they are in charge of their own fates. For others, deliberately infecting themselves is the ultimate taboo, the most extreme sex act left on the planet, and that has a strong erotic appeal for some men who have tried everything else. Still others feel lost and without any community to embrace them, and they see those living with HIV as a cohesive group that welcomes its new members and receives vast support from the rest of the gay community, and from society as a whole. Bug chasers want to be a part of that club. Some want HIV because they think once they have it they can go on with a wild, uninhibited sex life without constant fears of the virus. Getting the bug opens the door to sexual nirvana, they say. Others can't stand the thought of being so unlike their HIV-positive lover.

For Carlos, bug chasing is mostly about the excitement of doing something that everyone else sees as crazy and wrong. Keeping this part of his life secret is part of the turn-on for Carlos, which is not his real name. That forbidden aspect makes HIV infection incredibly exciting for him, so much so that he now seeks out sex exclusively with HIV-positive men. "This is something that no one knows about me," Carlos says. "It's mine. It's my dirty little secret." He compares bug chasing to the thrill that you get by screwing your boyfriend in your parents' house, or having sex on your boss' desk. You're not supposed to do it, and that's exactly what makes it so much fun, he says, laughing.

Carlos carries another secret that he says heightens the thrill of pursuing HIV. Sometimes he volunteers in the offices of Gay Men's Health Crisis, the pre-eminent HIV-prevention and AIDS-activist organization in New York. And about once a month, he does outreach volunteering in which he goes to clubs to hand out condoms and educate men about safe sex.

Carlos should meet Doug Hitzel, but he probably never will. A year ago they might have been online buddies, both sharing a passion for HIV that few others understood. Now Hitzel understands all too clearly what bug chasing can do to a young man's life, but it's too late for him. After six months of bug chasing, Hitzel succeeded in getting the virus. He's now a twenty-one-year-old freshman at a Midwestern university, so wholesome-looking you'd think he just walked out of a cornfield.

Hitzel's experience started when he moved from his home in Nebraska to San Francisco with his boyfriend. When that relationship broke up, Hitzel was at the lowest point in his life, and alone. He sought relief in drugs and sex, as much of each as he could get. At first, he started out just not caring whether he got HIV or not, then he found the bug-chasing underground and embraced it. He was sure he'd get HIV soon anyway. He thought he would always feel exactly like he did then; he was certain that ten, twenty, thirty years later he'd still be partying every night. It lasted only six months -- then Hitzel got sick with awful flulike symptoms and lost a lot of weight. A doctor's visit cleared him of hepatitis and other possible problems, but the clinic sent him home with an HIV test he could do himself. Hitzel waited before doing the test and decided to go home to Nebraska, to give up the bug chasing and the rest of the life that was killing him. Once he got home, he did the test and found out he was positive. He now wakes up each day with a terrible frustration that's just below the surface of his once sunny demeanor. He hates the medication he has to take every day, and he realizes that HIV affects nearly every part of his life. While he was bug chasing, Hitzel couldn't imagine ever wanting to be in a relationship again. But now that he's getting his life back in order, he realizes that being HIV-positive can be a roadblock to new relationships.

"Whenever I have to deal with things like medication, days when I'm really down," Hitzel says, "I have to look myself in the mirror and say, 'You did this. Are you happy now?' That's the one line that goes through my head: 'Are you happy now?' " He says it with a snarl, full of anger. "Some days I feel really angry and guilty. I'm pretty much adjusted to the fact that this is my life, but about forty percent of the time I look at myself and say, 'Look what you've done. Happy now?' "

Looking back on it, Hitzel says he was committing suicide by chasing HIV, killing himself slowly because he didn't have the nerve to do it quickly. Hitzel is ashamed and embarrassed that he actually sought HIV, but he's willing to tell his story because he hopes to dissuade others who are on the same path. He gets angry when he hears bug chasers talking in the same ways he talked a year earlier. The mention of "bug chasing" and "gift giving" sets him off.

" 'Bug chasing' sounds like a group of kindergartners running around chasing grasshoppers and butterflies," Hitzel says, "a beautiful thing. And gift giving? What the hell is that? I just wish the terms would actually put some real context into what's going on. Why did I not want to say that I was deliberately infecting myself? Because saying the word infect sounds bad and gross and germy. I wanted it to be sexualized." He's particularly angered by the idea of HIV being erotic: "How about you follow me after I start new medications and you watch me throw up for a few weeks? Tell me how erotic that is."

Though he's older, Carlos lives a life that has a lot in common with Hitzel's in San Francisco. Carlos estimates that he has had several hundred sex partners throughout his life, and he routinely hooks up with three or four guys a week, all of them HIV-positive or at least uncertain about their status.

That's a common trait among bug chasers, says Dr. Bob Cabaj, director of behavioral-health services for San Francisco County and past president of both the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association and the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists. Cabaj (pronounced suh-bye) calls bug chasing "a real phenomenon." Some bug chasers are more likely to have a defeatist attitude, to think they'll eventually get HIV anyway, whereas others are more likely to add the element of eroticizing HIV, Cabaj says: "For kids who have had a really hard time fitting in or being accepted, this becomes like a fraternity."

As a public official, Cabaj is familiar with how the topic makes people uncomfortable. Most AIDS activists prefer to deny that the problem exists to any significant extent, he says: "They don't want to address that this is a real ongoing issue."

When I asked about bug chasing, leaders of groups such as Gay Men's Health Crisis in New York, the San Francisco AIDS Foundation, the Stop AIDS Project, and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation weren't interested in providing much education or increasing public awareness. To the contrary, most were dismissive of the issue and some actively dissuaded me from writing the article at all. A spokeswoman for the Stop AIDS Project, Shana Krochmal, characterized bug chasing as "relatively minor acting-out" and aggressively encouraged me to drop the article idea altogether, saying the issue is "not big enough to warrant a trend story." Krochmal cautioned against focusing on "just a bunch of really vocal guys who want to continue this image of being reckless, hedonistic gay men who will do anything to get laid. I think that does a disservice to the community at large." The San Francisco AIDS Foundation labeled the issue "sensational" and would not provide further comment. GLAAD spokeswoman Cathy Renna was more helpful, saying she had heard enough about bug chasing to be concerned, emphasizing that her group's focus would be whether people use bug chasing as an easy way to disparage all gays and lesbians as sex-crazed and reckless. "The vast majority of the gay community would be just as surprised and appalled by this as anyone else," she says.

At GMHC, where Carlos is one of more than 7,000 volunteers, spokesman Marty Algaze calls bug chasing "one of those very underground subcultures or fetishes that seems to have sprung up in recent years." The assistant director of community education at GMHC, Daniel Castellanos, acknowledges that bug chasing exists but claims there's not much need to discuss it because it involves such a small population. But would he try to talk a bug chaser out of trying to get HIV? "If someone comes to me and says he wants to get HIV, I might work with him around why he wants to do it," he says. "But if in the end that's a decision he wants to make, there's a point where we have to respect people's decisions."

Cabaj, the San Francisco psychiatrist, says those arguments sound familiar. Then, without being asked, he adds, "But I don't know if it's an active cover-up." He pauses for a moment, then continues, "Yeah, it's an active cover-up, because they know about it. They're in denial of this issue. This is a difficult issue that dredges up some images about gay men that they don't want to have to deal with. They don't want to shine a light on this topic because they don't want people to even know that this behavior exists."

Public-health officials also tend to dismiss the bug-chasing phenomenon, he adds, assuming that it is just an aberration practiced by a few, nothing more than a curiosity. Cabaj adamantly disagrees, though he admits numbers are very hard to come by. Some men consciously seek the virus, openly declaring themselves bug chasers, he says, while many more are just as actively seeking HIV but are in denial and wouldn't call themselves bug chasers. Cabaj estimates that at least twenty-five percent of all newly infected gay men fall into that category.

With about 40,000 new infections in the United States per year, according to government reports, that would mean around 10,000 each year are attributable to that more liberal definition of bug chasing. Doug Hitzel says he fits that description. Though he now says he was a bug chaser for six months, he explains that he would not have admitted it to anyone outside the subculture, and he sometimes even lied to himself about what he was doing. Even if you consider only the number of self-proclaimed bug chasers and not the overall group of men seeking HIV, Cabaj still sees cause for concern because of the way one bug chaser's quest can spread the virus far beyond his own life. "It may be a small number of actual people, but they may be disproportionately involved in continuing the spread of HIV," he says. "That's a major issue when you're talking about how to control the spread of a virus. A small percentage could be responsible for continuing the infection. The clinical impact is profound, no matter how small the numbers."

The problem is not restricted to any one community. Cabaj's counterpart in Boston reports a similar experience with bug chasers. Dr. Marshall Forstein is medical director of mental health and addiction services at Fenway Community Health, an arm of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center that specializes in care for gay and lesbian patients. Forstein is on the medical-school faculty in psychiatry at Harvard University and chaired the American Psychiatric Association's Commission on AIDS for eleven years. He says bug chasers are seen regularly in the Fenway health system, and the phenomenon is growing. He adds that bug chasers can be found in any major city, though officials might be reluctant to discuss the issue either because it is unseemly or because it has escaped their notice. A spokesman for the Los Angeles County Department of Health confirms that bug chasers are known in its health system. Public-health officials in New York refused multiple requests for comment.

One standout in public-health circles is the Miami-Dade County Health Department in Florida, which is taking steps specifically to address bug chasing. Evelyn Ullah, director of its office of HIV/AIDS, readily admits that bug chasing is "a definite problem" in the Miami area, having become more common and more visible in the past few years. Miami health officials regularly monitor Internet sites for bug chasing in their community, and they keep track of "conversion parties," in which the goal is to have positive men infect negative men. The health department also is launching new outreach efforts that include going online to chat with bug chasers and others pursuing risky sex.
 
Cabaj and Forstein stress that more should be done, particularly on a national level. For starters, federal health officials will have to familiarize themselves with the problem. Dr. Robert Janssen, director of the division of HIV/AIDS Prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, says he has never seen the Web sites that promote bug chasing and does not know of any organized efforts to spread the virus. There is virtually no research on people who intentionally seek HIV, he says, but he notes that several studies have shown a growing complacency among gay men and the population in general about the risk of HIV and a misconception that HIV infection is completely manageable. Ongoing outbreaks of syphilis and gonorrhea (which Carlos recently had) in large cities indicate a tendency to forgo condom use, he says. Recent data from the CDC show that syphilis rates among men in the United States rose 15.4 percent between 2000 and 2001, which the researchers attribute to outbreaks among gay and bisexual men in several U.S. cities. Janssen says the CDC has not addressed bug chasing in any way but might if researchers determine that it is a significant method of spreading the virus. "I'm interested that you're saying there's that much out there on the Web and that it's easy to find," Janssen says. "If we can confirm that it's happening to any real degree beyond just an anecdote here and there, we may need to address it."

What frustrates health-care professionals the most, Forstein says, is that "gay men who are doing this haven't a clue what they're doing," he says. "They're incredibly selfish and self-absorbed. They don't have any idea what's going on with the epidemic in terms of the world or society or what impact their actions might have. The sense of being my brother's keeper is never discussed in the gay community because we've gone to the extreme of saying gay men with HIV can do no wrong. They're poor victims, and we can't ever criticize them."

Furthering the epidemic doesn't bother Carlos. Bug chasing requires a great deal of self-delusion, and he easily acknowledges the contradictions in what he's doing. He notes that while he seeks HIV, he doesn't eat junk food or smoke, and that he drinks only socially. "I take care of myself," he says proudly. He also notes the hypocrisy in his doing volunteer work at GMHC, in which he tells other men to use condoms and practice safe sex, while he's hunting for partners for his secret hobby. The conflict doesn't bother him in the least.

Forstein says that attitude is disastrous for gay men. "We're killing each other," he says. "It's no longer just the Matthew Shepards that are dying at the hands of others. We're killing each other. We have to take responsibility for this as a community."

After several phone calls to work out a time, Carlos is ready to go see Richard. He's had sex with Richard about thirty times in the past year. "Knowing he's positive just makes it more fun for me," he says. "It's erotic that someone is breeding me." Richard is in the entertainment business, in his mid- to late forties.

"Lots of guys want to know who breeds them," Carlos continues. "When I have sex, I like to always make it special, a really good time, something nice and memorable in case that is the one that gives it to me."

Carlos offers, not for the first time, to have me come along and watch him and Richard have sex, but I decline. In the taxi to Richard's place, the conversation falls silent. He hasn't been tested in a couple of years, and he's reluctant to get a test now. He might very well be positive already. But as long as he doesn't know for sure, he can always hope that tonight is the night he gets the virus. Every date is potentially The One. Stepping out of the cab into the rain, I ask what he will do if he finds out one day that he has succeeded in being infected -- ending the fun of being a bug chaser. He stops, then says he might move on to being a gift giver: "If I know that he's negative and I'm ****ing him, it sort of gets me off. I'm murdering him in a sense, killing him slowly, and that's sort of, as sick as it sounds, exciting to me."
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939950/bug_chasers/?rnd=1144640419957&has-player=false
 
That story was three years ago.

Bug chasers are extremely naive and they simply have no idea how HIV will literally eat away their lives. They forget about the cost of medication. They forget about the toxic side effects of HIV medications. They forget the cost of being hospitalized for infections. They forget the impact HIV will have on their quality of life. There is NOTHING good about HIV.

Those men are incredibly STUPID and deserves no tax-paid treatments. They must pay for their stupidity.
 
Heath said:
"I know what the risks are, and I know that putting myself in this situation is like putting a gun to my head," he says. Some of that mountain music that's so popular is playing, making the moment even more surreal as a Southern voice sings, "Keep on the sunny side of life" behind Carlos. "But I think it turns the other guy on to know that I'm negative and that they're bringing me into the brotherhood. That gets me off, too."
I think this says a lot. People can eroticize some very odd and dangerous things. I think this is very sad. Personally, I think sex is pretty amazing as it is. I don't feel the need to add anything weird to the mix myself - and certainly not risk my life. What a shame. That said - though this does happen - it's pretty rare.
 
MorriganTait said:
I think this says a lot. People can eroticize some very odd and dangerous things. I think this is very sad. Personally, I think sex is pretty amazing as it is. I don't feel the need to add anything weird to the mix myself - and certainly not risk my life. What a shame. That said - though this does happen - it's pretty rare.

Actually this is not rare, that is becoming more and more commonplace and how can people trust somebody who is secretly a bisexual and he or she does not know that person is HIV + and then infects that straight person all thanks to the bisexual and the homosexuals.

I view the bisexuals as more dangerous than the homosexuals.

How do I know the U.S. Government is telling the truth about HIV/AIDS ? I would not be surprised to see the U.S. Government and the world governments announce 20 years later that yes, you can get HIV/AIDS from shaking hands or sitting down on the toilet seat etc. I would not be surprised.

Read in between the lines , the US Gov't said you can get HIV from sweat and some HIV+ people have sweaty hands or a HIV + person is getting the hot and cold chills then he or she goes into a public restroom and sits down to go to the bathroom pee urine and discharge feces then gets up then the next person who is straight and not HIV + goes in the bathroom and sits down and the seat is sweaty and you are sitting there and open bodily fluids are present then the water goes plop ! as the feces is being discharged then some of that water with the sweat mixed hits the floating water then again the feces hit the water and plop ! some of the water drops goes upwards into the cavity of where the anus is discharging feces and boom !!!!! You have HIV + also remember sweat can seep through another people's skin as they shake hands so that is something else to think about.

I try to avoid homosexuals , bisexuals and transsexuals as much as possible for precisely this reason.

The US Gov't said the same thing about cigarettes then 20 years later they go Uh-oh by the way yes, you can get cancer then you have a mass of millions of people with cancer.

I trust the US Gov't on certain things but not all. As much as I love the USA. I am concerned for the wrong direction this country is headed into and I can clearly see that homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals are a curse on American society and a drain on our American taxpayer's system because we are not obeying God and look what is happening. If we obeyed God then none of this would be happening.
 
homosexuals are not the only ones being guilty of having sex with people while having HIV without protection, Heterosexuals do that too. Don't make it out that all Gays and Lesbians are bug chasers.


You cannot get HIV from sweat by shaking hands or using the public restrooms, not even hugging or holding hands, You get HIV if you have an open cut wounded, nor sex, It has to be related to blood.

If someone has HIV and using unprotected sex, and passed it along to someone else, that person who has HIV will be charge with murder, I heard that it was a law. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Cheri said:
homosexuals are not the only ones being guilty of having sex with people while having HIV without protection, Heterosexuals do that too. Don't make it out that all Gays and Lesbians are bug chasers.


You cannot get HIV from sweat by shaking hands or using the public restrooms, not even hugging or holding hands, You get HIV if you have an open cut wounded, nor sex, It has to be related to blood.

If someone has HIV and using unprotected sex, and passed it along to someone else, that person who has HIV will be charge with murder, I heard that it was a law. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi Cheri,

You are simply saying and reciting what the U.S. Government's medical position and stance on HIV/AIDS is.

Don't act surprised or shocked when the government says you can get HIV from shaking hands with sweaty palms or going to the bathroom 20 years later down the road.

Whenever I am out in public then I go to the bathroom. I never sit on the toilet itself and go to the bathroom in the air near the toilet bowl then close my pants up and if there is a paper toilet seat lid on the wall then I will use that and sit down to go to the bathroom only after I have flushed the bathroom 2 or 3 times before sitting down.

The government said the same thing about the cigarettes that you can't get cancer and all of a sudden you have millions of people who have smoked out lungs from cancer.
 
Heath said:
Don't act surprised or shocked when the government says you can get HIV from shaking hands with sweaty palms or going to the bathroom 20 years later down the road.

We are talking about now, the fact not the myth. You cannot tell what the future will hold. Right now the fact says that you cannot get HIV by infected person by using a public restrooms or shaking hands with an infected person. Thank you very much. :)


The government said the same thing about the cigarettes that you can't get cancer and all of a sudden you have millions of people who have smoked out lungs from cancer.

For a long time government had stated that cirgarettes can give smokers lung cancer, It has warning labels on all cirgarette brands. Beside this is not related to it's topic is it?
 
Heath said:
Actually this is not rare...
With all due respect Heath, you have proven yourself nothing if not a sexual neophyte, and your grasp of facts about STD's is startlingly lacking in almost every post you have made on this topic.

Heath said:
I view the bisexuals as more dangerous than the homosexuals.
Personally, I see dogmatic conservative fundamentalist Christians as the most dangerous. Go figure?

Heath said:
How do I know the U.S. Government is telling the truth about HIV/AIDS ?
The US Government is not doing all of the AIDS research, nor did "the Government" make most of the announcements about important HIV discoveries. Research is being carried out in countless private and public institutions in many countries. Have you ever met anyone involved in HIV/AIDS research? I would encourage you to talk to some forerunners in the field before pronouncing thier research invalid.

Heath said:
I would not be surprised to see the U.S. Government and the world governments announce 20 years later that yes, you can get HIV/AIDS from shaking hands or sitting down on the toilet seat etc.
Diseases that are transmitted as casually as handshakes are much more common than HIV. I am sure you, like most people, catch one or two minor colds or the flu each year. If AIDS were transmitted this easily, we would all have it.

Heath said:
Read in between the lines , the US Gov't said you can get HIV from sweat...
Heath, would you kindly find me a credible reference that claims HIV can be transmitted in human sweat? (You won't, because it can't - sweat is too alkaline to carry live HIV.)

Heath said:
...bodily fluids are present then the water goes plop ! as the feces is being discharged then some of that water with the sweat mixed hits the floating water then again the feces hit the water and plop ! some of the water drops goes upwards into the cavity of where the anus is discharging feces and boom...
Heath, HIV is laregly a disease transmitted by repeated exposure to high concentrations of live virus. In the open air, HIV survives only seconds. It is an extremely fragile virus as things go.

Heath said:
I try to avoid homosexuals , bisexuals and transsexuals as much as possible for precisely this reason.
I doubt this has anything to do with why you avoid GLBT people. I think you suffer simple prejudice. Dress it up however you want to in your own head to justify it, but you know, Christ wouldn't have shunned or avoided them. He didn;t even avoid known lepers.

Heath said:
The US Gov't said the same thing about cigarettes then 20 years later they go Uh-oh by the way yes, you can get cancer then you have a mass of millions of people with cancer.
Heath, I don;t believe you were alive to say what "the Government" did or din't say about cigarettes in much of the past. For my entire life cigarettes have had to carry health warnings. From what I have read and studied on the subject, it's not what they Government said - it's what they didn't say.

Heath said:
I am concerned for the wrong direction this country is headed...
I agree here. I am concerned with our increasing lack of tolerance, our ignorance, our refusal to learn, the way a religious minority has weilded huge influence over politics, how students in public schools are not being taught science, math, reading and critical thinking well enough to recognize lies in the open. It's dismaying.

Heath, I have seen you be a sweet, kind, inquisitive young man, but so terribly uninformed. If you would like to discuss sexuality and STD's privately, I will happily answer any questions clearly and honesty, citing my sources - you can PM me or e-mail me, it will be entirely confidential. Then you can face the world with real knowledge instead of naive ranmblings and prejudice.

You'll have to excuse me. I am off to have dinner with my friend who has AIDS. Talk to you later.
 
MorriganTait said:
I agree here. I am concerned with our increasing lack of tolerance, our ignorance, our refusal to learn, the way a religious minority has weilded huge influence over politics, how students in public schools are not being taught science, math, reading and critical thinking well enough to recognize lies in the open. It's dismaying.

Heath, I have seen you be a sweet, kind, inquisitive young man, but so terribly uninformed. If you would like to discuss sexuality and STD's privately, I will happily answer any questions clearly and honesty, citing my sources - you can PM me or e-mail me, it will be entirely confidential. Then you can face the world with real knowledge instead of naive ranmblings and prejudice.

You'll have to excuse me. I am off to have dinner with my friend who has AIDS. Talk to you later.


Hi MorriganTait,

You are off to have dinner with your friend who has AIDS ?

From what I understand people with the AIDS disease have to sterilize their forks , spoons and knives to make sure they are 100 % clean before sharing with a person who is not infected with AIDS.

That is how dangerous the AIDS disease is, if they have to sterilize the forks, spoons and knives. It has to get you thinking and wondering what all our government is saying or not saying. That was what my gripe was about.

As for the another things, I believe I have answered myself and during that time up to the mid-1950's to the 1960's there was a campigan to get people to stop smoking and people could figure out on their own that smoking was bad and finally came the Surgeon General's Warning Labels all because of that effort.

I would like to show you a very excellent article which will be a real eye opener to show you just how dangerous the AIDS disease is and what the liberal backed government is pushing on the American school educational system. Take a real good close look and read the green chart then you have to wonder how dangerous that really is , not to mention just the medical costs alone, but the moral and the emotional cost and the abnormal personal growth to our American youth is :

http://www.article8.org/docs/news_events/glsen_043005/black_book/black_book_inside.htm

Thank you and God Bless, Heath
 
Heath said:
From what I understand people with the AIDS disease have to sterilize their forks , spoons and knives to make sure they are 100 % clean before sharing with a person who is not infected with AIDS.
Your understanding, again, is quite wrong. I am at very little risk from using utensils she has used. Saliva contains only miniscule concentrations of HIV, and as I explained, it is a fragile organism, and survives very poorly in the open air and light. She has much more to worry about from oportunistic infections - with a supressed immune system, common foodborne bacteria could be quite hazardous. However, her T-Cell count is still in the normal range, so she is not at particular risk yet.

Heath said:
That is how dangerous the AIDS disease is, if they have to sterilize the forks, spoons and knives.
Again, some AIDS patients must be careful to sterilize utensils and cookware to protect themselves from bacteria and other organisms that a healthy immune system would be able to fight of, but theirs can't. They don't do that to protect YOU from catching AIDS. They do it to protect themselves from catching common parasites like cryptosporidium, giardia, salmonella, and countless others. My husband, who has a normal immune system got food poisoning the other night and was ill for three days. An illness that he will recover from can kill someone with AIDS because their immune systems cannot fight off the infection.

Heath said:
liberal backed government is pushing on the American school educational system.
Heath, American Public Schools are not governed centrally by the Federal Government. Curriculum is decided locally, partially at the State Level, but especially in matters of human sexuality, curriculum is typically decided at the local city/district level. Many school districts allow little to no education on STD's, Pregnancy and Contraception, or human sexuality in general.

Heath, I have been specially trained in this field. I have met and worked with biologists, clinicians, counsellors and educators working on the frontlines of AIDS research, prevention and treatment. I still learn new things very often, but pretty much all of what you have said so far is not based in fact, and some small factual information has been taken out of context or misinterpreted entirely. My offer still stands. If you would like to have a frank and private discussion about the real risks, I would be happy to talk to you in strict confidence.
 
Heath, you have NO idea what you're talking about.

HIV is difficult to contract. If HIV was so easy to contract, a LOT MORE people would be infected. No one ever got HIV from sharing food. No one ever got HIV from kissing or hugging. No one ever got HIV from shaking hands. HIV is extremely difficult to get.

In fact, let me cite a reliable study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12045500&dopt=Abstract

"We analysed a cohort of heterosexual HIV-serodiscordant couples with the aim of evaluating the risk of transmission ascribed to unprotected orogenital intercourse. A total of 135 seronegative individuals (110 women and 25 men), whose only risk exposure to HIV was unprotected orogenital sex with their infected partner, registered 210 person-years of follow-up. After an estimated total of over 19,000 unprotected orogenital exposures with the infected partner not a single HIV seroconversion occurred."

Let me translate it for you: in that study, each couple has one person who is HIV+ and the study examined 135 people who performed only oral sex. Despite over 19,000 unprotected sex, NONE OF HIV- PEOPLE BECAME HIV+! That should show you how HARD it is to get HIV.

Here's another link:

http://www.cdpc.com/s6.htm

"HIV is rarely, if ever, transmitted from infected individuals to others through nonsexual household or casual contact. The sharing of toothbrushes, beds, bathrooms, eating utensils, food and other common household items poses no measurable risk of HIV infection. Even though saliva can contain HIV, social kissing has not been shown to transmit HIV infection. Similarly, the risk of HIV transmission through ordinary contacts at school, social, and community events, and in the workplace - except for health care and laboratory settings - is considered to be virtually nonexistent."

Contrary to popular belief, having unsafe sex with HIV+ person doesn't always mean you'll get HIV the first time. The odds of getting infected ranges from 1 out of 100 to 1000. That is why many gay couples are HIV serodiscordant (meaning in a couple, one is HIV- and one is HIV+).

I looked at article8. article8 is antigay and distorted the reality of what's going on. It implied that it was given to students freely if as they were recruiting them when in fact, it didn't intend to. The news said:

"Fenway Community Health officials yesterday said they left about 10 copies of the ''Little Black Book" on an informational table they rented at a conference sponsored by the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network of Boston. The annual event, held on April 30 at Brookline High School, was aimed at high school students, educators, counselors, administrators, and parents.

The ''Little Black Book," produced by the AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts, is targeted at 18-and-older gay men, according to the committee."

However, I do hold them accountable for their actions. I got the chance to read the *whole* literature and don't find it that bad as it made it sound like it is. The booklet warned about HIV, STD's, drugs and what you could do to protect yourself. But it's not appropiate for that event.
 
Heath, I saw your website. I sense no life but death. I sense no joy but fear. Honestly, I don't understand what's going on in your mind. Do you have a social life? Do you meet diverse people of diverse cultures?
 
Health, you have too much fear in life and too much mis-informed data. We are smart than you think. Please research straight out facts before saying it all out of your mouth that you think it's right. It sounds like you have some kind of phobia.

I have a few friends who have HIV, I have worked, eaten, chatted, etc. no problems and I haven't got HIV. The only way you get HIV is contact thru blood or salvia (rare cases) includes sexual or kissing lips (if you have cuts and him/her has cuts. HIV is not as congitaous like cold/flu and so on.
 
No phobia.

Just plain and clear common sense.

I just got home from working the 3rd shift.

When I get caught up on sleep then later in the daytime I will respond to all of these okay?

I gotta catch some sleep now.
 
Hmm... HIV bug-chasing should be considered a crime since it is like committing suicide.
 
Vampy, I'm all for personal freedoms, but I DO believe that bug chasers should be locked up in a mental insistuion!
 
Heath - stop being homophobic!

It is sad that you continue to believe in myths and lies. You only get it through liquid exchange during sex.

You do not get it from sitting on toilets or anything you have mentioned. You can be 99% wrong.

You need to go to AIDs workshop and be up to date on its projects.

Sorry to say this - you sound like a damn fool for believing in myths and lies....what a waste of life!

:dunno:
 
Sorry you feel this way

VamPyroX said:
Hmm... HIV bug-chasing should be considered a crime since it is like committing suicide.

Although you may have your right to your opinion, to put this type of spin on it will only make it even more desirable to many of the giftees.
Also, suicide in this country is no longer a criminal act in any state. It will only land someone in a psychiatric institution where one can get the professional help one truly needs at that point.
 
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