History teachers drop Holocaust & Crusades

[jillio]

Quote:
I suggested in a previous posting that a perspective acceptable to everyone in the community should be developed and taught.

Where does that community exist? (That is, where in the free world does that community exist?)


I'd like to know where that community exists, as well!

 

[Berry]

We are living in a society of fear these days. Fear of getting shot at in a mall, fear of offending anyone, and fear of spanking our children. Children need to learn the tough lessons of life and learning the ugliness of the past is a good lesson to learn.

If one avoids controversy in classroom subject matter, students do not develop their critical thinking skills, thus impairing their ability to make reasonable judgement throughout their lifetime. Critical thinking is the most important skill that comes from teaching and discussing controvery in the classroom.

This is where it is at completely.

Teaching what everyone agrees upon is not teaching -- It is reinforceing -- And avoiding teaching what is controversial is teaching both that fear rules and that controversy cannot be conducted in a peaceful and sane manner.

Real learning begins where controversy starts: What is not known for sure, what is incompletely known, what is being investigated, and what has yet to be investigate: This is where interest begins, where excitement begins; this is where thinking, discussion, involvement begins; this is where people learn how to handle differences in others and differences in the opinions of others with respect rather than fighting.

Real learning about the past begins when we start studying who disagreed about what and why back then.

Real learning about the present begins when we start studying who disagrees about what and why right now.

This is also where we learn mutual respect.

 

[jillio]

This is where it is at completely.

Teaching what everyone agrees upon is not teaching -- It is reinforceing -- And avoiding teaching what is controversial is teaching both that fear rules and that controversy cannot be conducted in a peaceful and sane manner.

Real learning begins where controversy starts: What is not known for sure, what is incompletely known, what is being investigated, and what has yet to be investigate: This is where interest begins, where excitement begins; this is where thinking, discussion, involvement begins; this is where people learn how to handle differences in others and differences in the opinions of others with respect rather than fighting.

Real learning about the past begins when we start studying who disagreed about what and why back then.

Real learning about the present begins when we start studying who disagrees about what and why right now.

This is also where we learn mutual respect.

 

[Defmusicman]

Quote:
I suggested in a previous posting that a perspective acceptable to everyone in the community should be developed and taught.

Where does that community exist? (That is, where in the free world does that community exist?)


I'd like to know where that community exists, as well!

Yeah, I'd like to know where it is, too. I believe it's someplace called Utopia. Kindly inform me when it's been found.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, I'd like to know where it is, too. I believe it's someplace called Utopia. Kindly inform me when it's been found.

And provide a map, please!

 

[Maria]

Very interestin' thread...

I am more concerned that if the teachers don't teach about " history " then, we will face bloodsheddin' everywhere to repeat history itself. The way I see it the opposite of everythin' - for instance : We want peace, it means war to them. We tell truth, it means lie to them. We want " live ", it means die to them.

I was devastated when a friend of mine was tellin' me what she thought of the " truth " means after I asked her if, she knew what it was. She was tellin' me that there's no God or that the truth is not a fact. She learned all that from campus. Of course, there's a diversity involved at campus. I reminded her that the " truth " is always " truth " and you must always know what truth really is - and that there's ALWAYS fact out there. I explained about God that no man will EVER DARE to change the truth otherwise somebody will face severly consequences after death. It will impact this person hard without thinkin'. I am not gonna changed my mind what I know about truth. I can see why they want to drop history by twistin' the truth or to make the truth unfact like nobody will know any difference anymore.

It is a scary thought for me.

 

[RedFox]

How did those people who didn't graduate high school get onto boards of education? No wonder they bend to the wills of groups who want to muck around with the educations of kids.

I think the reason why there are Muslims who don't want anything about the Holocaust to be taught is that they view the Holocaust as something made up by the Jews to get people to feel sorry for them. There are people who believe Jews are out to control the world. So they want to mess around with education to disempower the Jews they perceive as power hungry. Of course, there is no worldwide Jewish conspiracy to rule the world and there is plenty of evidence that the Holocaust actually happened, so the Holocaust is not a made up tool for gaining piety.

With the Crusades, maybe the Muslims who didn't want that to be taught thought that any mentions of attacks on Muslims would make Muslim kids feel inferior or suggest to them that they are not immune to being attacked.

 

[Yiffzer]

More details:


Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims | the Daily Mail

everyone must realize that it is the victors that decide history. those that dominate dictate what is put in the history books. one example is the crusades. there are conflicting claims and evidence considering the western's view of the crusades and the eastern view of the crusades. to say they made up their own teachings and taught them locally in mosques is a bit misleading. historians and theologians and scholars alike from the east have found different claims against the western's claims. that is then passed down to mosques for their imams to teach them. however, if it's valid or not, that's another issue.

 

[Yiffzer]

If I remember the Crusades for anything, it would definitely be three things: 1) get the Arabs out of the Iberian peninsula, 2) the Pope sending children to fight Arabian men with swords, and 3) men would go down to sack and pillage villages/towns, bring the loot home, and retire on the gold looted (all this under the banner of religion & Jerusalem - which, obviously, really was just a rallying point).

as i've said recently, where is the muslim's view of the crusades? that's the problem here. you obviously only received the western's story. i am just leaving this fact out for everyone to realize.

In fact, during this time, Christian and Muslim kingdoms allied together to fight another Christian/Muslim kingdom.

i'm not aware of this. any references?

As we have already agreed, the whole story is not there.

the whole story isn't there? how so?

It should be obvious to anyone that the underlying theme of the Crusades and Holocaust is religion. Keep religion in their respective places of worship; keep education in schools.

although i understand what you mean, you're not thinking correctly here. even if it's religion, it's still a major event in our history. if anything has religion attached to it, you'll omit them? absolute nonsense. even if there's such a school that advocates atheism, there's still a need to cover history, religious or not. my only concern is in getting the correct facts in history and eliminating any certain bias from within without any agenda for teaching it.

You cannot force feed history to those who have no motivation (or who have emotional distaste) to learn. If they have the motivation to learn history, they'll dig it up, ask their parents, or ask their religious leader(s).

how would you know if they do have the motivation to learn history without even bringing it up once? a little history is good as it'll spark something for them to inquire. to completely omit them is a bad idea. history, regardless of what kind, is education.

What is important to you may not be important to me. If anything, that argument sounds exactly like those who argued that the public school system should teach one religion's version of how the earth was created and the origin of Man.

how would k-12 children even know what's "important" to them? you're thinking in the context of your own age. think in their own age. it's best to provide as much as what we have on the table for their benefit.

i'm actually in agreement with much of your points but some of these (mentioned above) are a few perplexing points i had to question.

 

[vallee]

As a fifth grade teacher(special education- I taught an inclusion group for social studies and science), I teach the Holocaust. We teach it in the contents of what is age appropriate. We have a story in our reading series that deals with hiding of the Jews. We also read "Number the Stars" in class. For Social Studies we teach the Holocaust in the contents of World War II.

I reviewed the Tennessee State Standards(benchmarks and SPIs). The Holocaust is taught in detail in 9th grade. The Crusaders are taught in middle School and again in World History in High School. All you have to do is check the department of Education for your state and check the benchmarks and spis that are being taught. Alot of history may not be taught during History class, but is taught in reading.

Teachers do have some control over what they teach in class, but we have grade appropriate spis and skills to teach. All skills are spiral so the skill is taught over the years.

 

[Yiffzer]

there is nothing really "age appropriate". any age can be taught anything along with careful discretion of its teachings and lessons. you can teach a young boy in using a gun and why to use it. but in this society, there is a large perversion of what is appropriate and what isn't. young kids are fed this bullshit of cartoons being "appropriate" for them and bloody events that "inappropriate" for them. to keep feeding them that bullshit slows their maturity down. boys can not be mature by the time they hit puberty. instead, they finally "get it" by the age of 25 or something.

 

[vallee]

there is nothing really "age appropriate". any age can be taught anything along with careful discretion of its teachings and lessons. you can teach a young boy in using a gun and why to use it. but in this society, there is a large perversion of what is appropriate and what isn't. young kids are fed this bullshit of cartoons being "appropriate" for them and bloody events that "inappropriate" for them. to keep feeding them that bullshit slows their maturity down. boys can not be mature by the time they hit puberty. instead, they finally "get it" by the age of 25 or something.

Sure you can teach them anything, but do they really understand. My fifth graders understand history as it relates to children. They understand the hiding of the Jews. They don't understand the policies and concentration camps. They would have nightmares over pictures. In order for them to really learn the concepts, teachers should teach it in the way they can understand. I don't want to scare them - I want them to understand and respect history, and how this events effect the world.

The topic is history teachers drop Holocaust and Crusades. I stated that in my state, we have not. I know what I teach and what grades teach what. Each state is different.

 

[Yiffzer]

they will understand if you allow them to understand. you develop their cognitive processes by questioning them and/or challenging them. people do not do this often and therefore leave them in a delayed state of realizing it when they're 16 or so. some children in povertized areas are mature at an early age. by engaging in their environment and taking life seriously, they realize it at a young age. others are "protected" or "shielded away" from reality. it's natural for everyone to get scared. just allow them to understand it. it's the same problem i have with high school teaching algebra. it's ridiculous. children can learn college algebra by the age of 12 or 13 (grade 6) but we aren't encouraging our children to do that. it's actually a complicated issue and it's hard for me to explain it because we are all trapped within the mindset of this american culture and society. but be rest assured, there is no such thing as an appropriate age.

 

[vallee]

they will understand if you allow them to understand. you develop their cognitive processes by questioning them and/or challenging them. people do not do this often and therefore leave them in a delayed state of realizing it when they're 16 or so. some children in povertized areas are mature at an early age. by engaging in their environment and taking life seriously, they realize it at a young age. others are "protected" or "shielded away" from reality. it's natural for everyone to get scared. just allow them to understand it. it's the same problem i have with high school teaching algebra. it's ridiculous. children can learn college algebra by the age of 12 or 13 (grade 6) but we aren't encouraging our children to do that. it's actually a complicated issue and it's hard for me to explain it because we are all trapped within the mindset of this american culture and society. but be rest assured, there is no such thing as an appropriate age.

I can agree with alot of your comments. I have been teaching for 15 years. I did teach high school Social Studies and Computers for a year. If a teacher can teach, she can teach anything to any group. My school is very low income(67% free and reduce lunch). We are battling gangs in elementary school. Our population is over 70% military and so much child abuse. I believe in teaching according to their cognitive development. I would not get up and just teach straight multiplication facts - I teach with with manipulatives when I taught 2nd grade. Now with 5th graders I expect them to know their facts. I would not pull out the beans or counters to teach it.

I am on this very subject then I get back on the 7th. So if you have any ideas let me know.

 

[XBGMER]

the history is most important.

million words I will tell you about it. I don't want to be argue with you about subjects.

the Human ages wrote the earth's history which is the record already. the record is the truth itself tell people. Human intelligent/ supernatural is being the human history itself repeat on earth for record of truth that exist without begin or end period. the life gave power to human hands and feet move on earth like us see what active in our human history we walk on now.

I don't mind they demand to dropping/ omitting/ terminating the history from school, whatever. but its very impossbile for them to change the history for their permenant rest. religions and politics are still fail since. more and more parents put their kids at homeschool to teach them learn how to be hold the history.

Very interestin' thread...

I am more concerned that if the teachers don't teach about " history " then, we will face bloodsheddin' everywhere to repeat history itself. The way I see it the opposite of everythin' - for instance : We want peace, it means war to them. We tell truth, it means lie to them. We want " live ", it means die to them.

I was devastated when a friend of mine was tellin' me what she thought of the " truth " means after I asked her if, she knew what it was. She was tellin' me that there's no God or that the truth is not a fact. She learned all that from campus. Of course, there's a diversity involved at campus. I reminded her that the " truth " is always " truth " and you must always know what truth really is - and that there's ALWAYS fact out there. I explained about God that no man will EVER DARE to change the truth otherwise somebody will face severly consequences after death. It will impact this person hard without thinkin'. I am not gonna changed my mind what I know about truth. I can see why they want to drop history by twistin' the truth or to make the truth unfact like nobody will know any difference anymore.

It is a scary thought for me.

Yes!, Your post is an excellent point, Because your truth telling my truth about there's all diversity involved at schools in various places make the real history twist into another history and unfact truth!

But I fear to tell you, my truth there is no God nor heaven, sorry. My mind inspired of great forefathers and foremothers tell me, this land is belong to me and my childern's childerns. One day I'll take this land, this is my home. this earth is the glorious history, treasure, and truth!

 

[Wokamuka]

Repetition does not equal the Truth.

 

[Aleser]

Yep, Britain is quickly becoming an Islamic state. The altering of the history curriculum is just one step in the process. Tolerant? They won't rest until the whole world is Muslim no matter how long it takes. The 5 times a day prayer facing Mecca in the hospitals, universities and all public establishments is another step. Who's next? America? The British government should round up all the Islamic loonies and deport their asses back to the Mid-East since they like praying to Mecca so much. We should do the same here in the USA. This kowtowing to one group and this politically correct bullshit has gone too far. No one group should have that much say in how a society is shaped. Last time I checked, the majority rules.

Wow, you're clearly not at all racist. As we all know, a topic about incompetent history teachers is clearly an excuse to insult all Muslims. What is so insane about praying? What about being a dedicated religious person, even in the face of sickness/death, is so offensive to you?

I'm one of those "loonies." I'm a college educated competent and intelligent person from the middle east who also happens to be Muslim. I am one of the BILLION peaceful and nonviolent Muslims on this earth. How DARE you make judgements about me and my religon based on the actions of a few who chose to pervert it? How DARE you? Who on -earth- are you to say that I do not belong in your country?

It's people who think like you do who create hate. You attach stigma to an entire population and act surprised when, hey, that stigmatized population turns to the only thing they have left in a world that largely rejects them- faith. That is the breeding ground for radicals, sir. Not some lonely man in a Masjid trying to convince Muslim children that such and such never happened.

I believe in nonviolence. Maybe it's time you learned something from me and offered that to the world?

 

[Yiffzer]

Wow, you're clearly not at all racist. As we all know, a topic about incompetent history teachers is clearly an excuse to insult all Muslims. What is so insane about praying? What about being a dedicated religious person, even in the face of sickness/death, is so offensive to you?

I'm one of those "loonies." I'm a college educated competent and intelligent person from the middle east who also happens to be Muslim. I am one of the BILLION peaceful and nonviolent Muslims on this earth. How DARE you make judgements about me and my religon based on the actions of a few who chose to pervert it? How DARE you? Who on -earth- are you to say that I do not belong in your country?

It's people who think like you do who create hate. You attach stigma to an entire population and act surprised when, hey, that stigmatized population turns to the only thing they have left in a world that largely rejects them- faith. That is the breeding ground for radicals, sir. Not some lonely man in a Masjid trying to convince Muslim children that such and such never happened.

I believe in nonviolence. Maybe it's time you learned something from me and offered that to the world?

Woot. QFT.

 

[dreama]

I'm one of those "loonies."

No you're not. You seem very moderate in your religious beliefs. I have nothing against Moderate muslims. In fact I've had friends who were moderate muslims. It's the extremists who I have problems with as in England people seem afraid of offending them.

 

[Defmusicman]

Wow, you're clearly not at all racist. As we all know, a topic about incompetent history teachers is clearly an excuse to insult all Muslims. What is so insane about praying? What about being a dedicated religious person, even in the face of sickness/death, is so offensive to you?

I'm one of those "loonies." I'm a college educated competent and intelligent person from the middle east who also happens to be Muslim. I am one of the BILLION peaceful and nonviolent Muslims on this earth. How DARE you make judgements about me and my religon based on the actions of a few who chose to pervert it? How DARE you? Who on -earth- are you to say that I do not belong in your country?

It's people who think like you do who create hate. You attach stigma to an entire population and act surprised when, hey, that stigmatized population turns to the only thing they have left in a world that largely rejects them- faith. That is the breeding ground for radicals, sir. Not some lonely man in a Masjid trying to convince Muslim children that such and such never happened.

I believe in nonviolence. Maybe it's time you learned something from me and offered that to the world?

No, I don't think you're one of those "loonies". Like you said, it's the actions of a few extremists that pervert an otherwise noble religion. The same can be said for a lot of religions. But pressuring the government to change or omit facts of history from the school curriculum in order to avoid offending a certain group of people because of religious intolerance is a serious thing. The competence of the teachers is not the issue.

I am all for religion. Prayer and dedication to one's religion is a great thing. Using one's religion to impose an agenda on other people through violence and destruction is NOT a great thing. The radical extremists who do this are a menace to society. Unfortunately, we seem to be seeing more of them lately and public opinion of Muslims are influenced by these actions.

I believe in non-violence too. I believe we can all get along and learn something from each other. Let's start with the idea that no ONE group of people should impose their will on ALL of society. Agreed?