Hearing in a Deaf world

vfr said:
after not having any deaf freinds for 30 years,having them now makes me wish my dad had sent me to mssd at gally when i was a kid.
if that happened ,i would have missed out on traveling to lots of different counteries...but i would have more fun.
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I also feel the same way, vfr. I wasn't allowed to go deaf school (NMSD) being the only child in the family and attending mainstreaming schools which got me in the middle between the deaf world and the hearing world. That's why I let my only deaf son go to NMSD. It really makes me feel good and proud watching him grow in confidence and gain positive self-esteem while he is being involved in deaf sports and leadership class, being the class president, and travelling, in ASL environment, which I lacked growing up.

Travis, I am not accepted in Deaf culture at 100%, just because I can speak very well and uses SEE or PSE thru out to my adult life until my son changed my life and I learned more about & use ASL for 9 yrs now. Me very receptive ASL but me ASL sign so-so. So I'm not in the Deaf culture's core 100%.

I understand LMM's writings because I am so used to my deaf friends using ASL in their writings. I can translate pretty well. Sometimes they ask me for help in their english writing on resume, formal letters, etc. Every time I throw in a new word or vocabulary, they ask "what that mean?" and I tend to explain it without being selfish.
 
One thing that I acknowledge that a lot of people forget is that while a Deaf person may have more in common with another Deaf person than they would with a hearing person, there isn't one overarching 'Deaf community' that defines who is Deaf and who isn't.

While is is true that deaf people are more apt to dealing with other deaf people (no language barrier, naturally), Deaf at RIT/NTID are not the same as Deaf at Gallaudet are not the same as Deaf in other countries. Like any other group of people, there are various factions and opinions within the group, and thus the notion that you can't be accepted as Deaf if you're hearing is utterly ridiculous.

Some Deaf people will not accept you as being Deaf. Some Deaf people will. Now, both groups are Deaf, yes, so if one acknowledges you as being Deaf and the other does not, are they still both Deaf? Yes, and so are you. Failure of one group to accept that is ignorance and prejudice on the part of that group, not a flaw of who you are.

Be yourself. If people can't accept you for who you are, whether they're deaf or hearing, they're idiots, end of story.
 
vfr, and flyfish......I also wish I'd been able to attend a deaf school. Being mainstreamed was cool, but there was just so much missing. I mean, I am kind of jealous of the connection that kids who went to schools for the Deaf, have with their schools. My mainstream school wasn't that great (although college was) I really do think that most dhh kids should do split programs....going to both hearing and deaf schools.Like maybe one term or semester attending their hearing school, and then the next attending a deaf school.
 
deafdyke said:
I really do think that most dhh kids should do split programs....going to both hearing and deaf schools.Like maybe one term or semester attending their hearing school, and then the next attending a deaf school.
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The most balanced, happy deaf people I've met have been ones that went to both mainstream schools and schools for the deaf. I have one friend who went to a mainstream school all morning, and then to the school for the deaf all afternoon. That way, she could get her challenging classes, as well as variety, in the mainstream setting, but do all the clubs, sports, etc. at school with deaf people. To me that makes the most sense.
 
LMM said:
me best try do me!!!... me terp no office here me... She terp type me...
U TTD no UQQ U ASL no UQQ

LMM
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Ignore Heath. They're simply trying to provoke you because you do not agree with his opinions.

I can understand your language perfectly clear, and I don't even know the first thing about proper ASL grammar.
 
Apathrev or LMM--would you mind explaining to me what "UQQ" means? I had never seen them before joining this forum. I'm not trying to be insulting...I'm just ignorant. ;)
 
vfr said:
after not having any deaf freinds for 30 years,having them now makes me wish my dad had sent me to mssd at gally when i was a kid.
if that happened ,i would have missed out on traveling to lots of different counteries...but i would have more fun.
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You know, vfr, my mother wanted to send me to the state school in Minnesota...Faribault. But, my dad said, "costs money." End of discussion. Fast forward to high school...my mother wanted me to attend Gally. I said, "I'd rather attend a Bible college." It's no wonder that I've been so hurt by Christian people...and...get this...when I was at North Central Bible College, there were some deaf students. Gosh did they have friends that helped them...no one, not even in any of my classes, gave up their seat to me in the front row. No one. :madfawk: The college is now called North Central University and, guess what, you oughtta see their program for deaf people now! :shock: But, you know what? The damage they've done has already been done, so life goes on. From time to time, I still receive their "Dear Friend" letters, hitting me up for a donation for whatever they need. I don't even read them or the magazine I occasionally get and throw them in the circular. In fact, I can't read them because of what they've done. I know this is more than you and everyone else wanted to know, especially with the profanity, but, all of us that are D/deaf and hoh need to know who has been hostile against us in the past and make sure they're not patronized again. I am happy with the direction my life is taking, but, with that school, my wallet and checkbook remain closed indefinately.
 
travisdoesmath said:
but a few times I've gotten the feeling that I was discriminated against because I was hearing. I don't like that.
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:welcome: Travis, now you know what it's like when us deaf/hoh people are out and about. Feels good, eh? You said you don't like it, well, I can understand why the people who are asl only feel that way. It's more than a language to them, it's a heritage and culture, one of which you, no matter how hard you try, will never be a part of. If I was more fluent in my own asl, my speeches here at the university would have been done 100% in asl, or, until I made my point and everyone concurs with me. I have a hearing dog with me at all times, the university says she has to be caped, I'm currently fighting that, as their "police farce" and security here on campus is pathetic. I turn the cape around so no lettering shows...no one's business. I get more questions and problems and, all of a sudden, I have to "educate" people on service animals. Pardon, but my time is valuable, too, and, if I have to "educate" you and this gets to be redundant, I really should be paid a little something for being inconvenienced. I know that there are organizations that do hold seminars, but they charge big bucks for the training, why should these people get something for free and pay a pimp to tell them the same thing I just told them? :confused: It doesn't make sense and, sometimes, education people ALL THE TIME exhausts me. Something to think about, Travis.
 
Rose Immortal said:
Apathrev or LMM--would you mind explaining to me what "UQQ" means? I had never seen them before joining this forum. I'm not trying to be insulting...I'm just ignorant. ;)
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It's not ignorant. I believe LMN just didn't space out "U" and "QQ." "QQ" symbolizes a question in terms of communicating on a TTY. Since no punctuation is used, QQ is used in place of a question mark. What I think LMN was trying to say by
U TTD no UQQ U ASL no UQQ
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is "You don't have a TDD? You don't know ASL?"
 
I got to thinking about the last local Silent Dinner I attended, and I'm starting to think I didn't make a good impression with one particular couple. A woman began fingerspelling to me, and I had to ask her to slowly repeat. For a minute I didn't understand why she was fingerspelling until she told me it was her name. I was so embarassed after that. :Oops: But I didn't think to explain that I did not understand and that I wasn't even deaf. Later in the night, I sat down next to my co-worker, who at the time was signing with this same woman and her husband, apologized for interrupting, and asked my co-worker if she was working the next day. I used the sign I was taught for "always." They were quick to show me the correct sign, and I felt almost as if they were looking down on me because of it. Next silent dinner, I think I'm going to have to make sure they don't think I was trying to be rude.
 
apathrev said:
"QQ" symbolizes a question in terms of communicating on a TTY. Since no punctuation is used, QQ is used in place of a question mark.
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Thanks for the clarification. :)
 
pek1 said:
:welcome: Travis, now you know what it's like when us deaf/hoh people are out and about.
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I knew how it felt to be discriminated against beforehand, it's no excuse. no one discriminates to "teach a lesson" .. they discriminate for the same reasons they are discriminated against, and that's hypocritical bullshit.
 
The first time I ever went to a deaf event, it seemed to get split up into two groups: deaf and HOH/hearing. At first I was at a table with several Deaf people, who were very welcoming and patient with me (and it was my first time chatting with native users of ASL, which was almost like seeing the language for the first time!).

Then as the evening went on, it seemed like the "more ASL" and "less ASL" people sort of grouped together. I wasn't really thrilled with this because I wanted to sign and not speak that night, but there didn't seem to be any polite way out of it.

Then even later, there were just a dozen or so people left -- all deaf and strong ASL users, and me, the sole hearing person. I was pretty intimidated, but again, they couldn't have been nicer, kindly including me in the conversation and being very patient with my limited language when they asked me to tell a story about my family.

It was an interesting night because it showed me that the "discrimination" that occurred during the middle part of the event was not on purpose; people just naturally get drawn to those they are better able to communicate with.

I'm not trying to say actual discrimination doesn't among hearing or deaf or any group of people. But it can be easy to fall into paranoia sometimes when it isn't even about you at all.

apathrev said:
"QQ" symbolizes a question in terms of communicating on a TTY.
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I think people also use it to represent the bending index finger "question mark" sign in ASL, if that makes any sense.
 
Nothing new under the sun, it was as of old.

I know exactly how some of you mean when dealing with some from the deaf world who won't accept you as deaf. It was the most puzzling experience in my life when I went to Galluadet visiting a former teacher (I don't know sign and probably never know much either just a couple of them). I never seen so many snotty people. There were some that were nice but most were standoffish. I will never be "truly" deaf even now having absolutely no hearing (due to CI). I just simply identify with the hearing world and I'm comfortable there. Make no mistake, I'm like all HOH types...in between worlds and it can be difficult at times but one has to make their bed somewhere and do the best they can.

However, the years have tempered my understanding on this phenomenon as it happens to all people the world over. It is not something that just occurs with deaf people. There are "cliques" the world over and the key word is common experiences. People prefer others who understand where they are coming from. A big part of that is communication and I think for the deaf that gets even more important as that is the key component that provides the "glue" they need to survive. Now, in the hearing world spoken language is obviously the means but there are many different languages. Most people are understanding if you don't understand the language and can be reasonable about it. The threat isn't that you can't understand the language but the differences in "way of life" or customs which is a different beast. For the deaf, the language is the critical component and if you don't know it...woe to you! Now, there has been improvement in general as the world is forced to understand each other due to all the possibilities in communications. We live in interesting times! I do believe it is better now but there will always be diehards in every group.

Bottom line, there is no excuse for such discrimination in any form but the reality it can and does happen and all the time at that. It is simply human nature and it will not change because somebody is standing on the podium and shouting about it. Every generation will continue to deal it no matter what.
 
reasons..

stuck up crap. that is why my birth father veiws 90 % of the worlds deaf to be fucking retarded, even though he is deaf. just about every deaf person he meets has laugage skills ..ergo can not write" what do you do for a living?"

so he just keeps away from all deaf people.and after i saw people treated him when he came to gally (for a visit and to think about taking some sign classes himself) i really cant blame him.

he is married to a doctor whom is hearing and he has hearing freinds.
after getting attitude from a teacher becouse my dad plans to learn sign NOW at 60 so he can sign with his pals who are loosing their hear due to old age...he told the teacher to go fuck him self.. he said any fucking retard who cuts himself off from the world becouse of bullshit reason of not wanting to have hearing pals deserves neither respect or freindship .
 
But, at the same time, vfr, hearies don't make it easy on deaf people either. Teachers of deaf students need to teach them how to spell correctly, too, but, as I said, the hearies started it. I'm well aware what you and your dad are saying, but, look at it from the deaf perspective. On the other hand, we have LMM around here, who, evidentally, has an interpreter typing for him/her that can't spell...how the heck did this interpreter get training if they don't know how to spell? :(
 
travisdoesmath said:
I knew how it felt to be discriminated against beforehand, it's no excuse. no one discriminates to "teach a lesson" .. they discriminate for the same reasons they are discriminated against, and that's hypocritical bullshit.
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As I just stated to vfr, hearies started it. If they want to stop and start treating the us deaf/hoh like human beings, then we'll quit. Bullshit is in the eye of the beholder and I behold nothing. It's called, "tit for tat."
 
I'm with travisdoesmath and vfr.

Discrimination, regardless of if it's done by minority or majority, is ethically wrong on all levels. It doesn't matter who starts it. "Tit for tat" is not an acceptable ethical standard beyond the kindergarten playground.

I do not make my decisions based upon whether people are hearing or deaf, black or white--I make my decisions based upon that person's words and actions towards both those who are LIKE them and those who are UNLIKE them. This is the only fair way to treat a person--I believe the words were "by the content of their character."

Treating a person badly just because they were born with the ability to hear is just as wrong as treating somebody because they were not. How one is born cannot be controlled, and bears absolutely no connection to "the content of their character." To judge anybody any other way, by how they were born, or any other physical thing, would be to belittle that person. I believe in at least giving people some basic respect in that I assume they are intelligent people who are in control of their own words and actions.

Let me sum this up: if a person treats me like a jerk, I don't care what they might look like or anything else physical--I will consider that person a jerk. And every group you can name, hearing, deaf, black, white, or whatever, has its share of jerks. I will NOT mistreat them in return, but I will certainly avoid their company if at all possible. If a person treats me with kindness, then I will remember them well. And each group has its share of kind people, too--assuming that any group is incapable of kindness, or judging people of that group because others of that group have done you harm, is an ethical failure. And even worse is mistreating people in that group because of those experiences.
 
pek1 said:
As I just stated to vfr, hearies started it. If they want to stop and start treating the us deaf/hoh like human beings, then we'll quit. Bullshit is in the eye of the beholder and I behold nothing. It's called, "tit for tat."
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"tit for tat" means whatever *I* have done, you do back to *ME* .. if you're walking down the street and someone punches you, you can't hit some other random person and claim it's "tit for tat", you're just as guilty as the person who did it to you.

Likewise, you have no right to blame ME for what OTHER hearing people have done. You want to get on me for things I have personally done, fine, but to act like you have the right to discriminate against me simply because I'm hearing is BULLSHIT.
 
no bullshit!

if you are deaf ..and i am ...you must try harder study harder and stop blaming hearing people for you problems! my father is deaf and has been the boss of job for 30 years! becouse after 1 month of work his boss saw that my dad was the best worker AND the smartest worker. being a master cabinet maker is not an easy job..but becoming a forman on top of it made it even harder.
to my dad, it was simple ..no bullshit allowed. if you make a mistake fine, own it if you do the same thing again ..get the hell out.

so if you are in school do not blame your teachers for the fact that you are dumb,and do not give them credit if you are smart.
get off your ass and LEARN! i have had 4 people come up to me this week at gally ..begging me to do their work becouse they fucked around,and now it is time for finals and final projects.
i tell them sure! just buy me a new harley! yea! if you are going to make money in future for my work...you can pay me NOW! i wanna harley or go fuck yourself!

i have worked my ass off! i have gone to 2 schools full time ,at the same time! no special terps! and still got straight A's!!! and i still suck at spelling! my fault not the teachers...
hgear at gally there are terps, note takers ,tutors ,and more ..and people still complain and people still fail out. their fault! my god you must be drunk 24/7 or as dumb as a rock to fail gally! i tutor grad students ,and i know they could have done it them selves if they had not been partying all day on saturday......i was at the party too...but i do not have big freaking project due!!
 
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