hearies attempting to assimiliate into Deaf culture

[Rose Immortal]

Liza...what a stirring speech you've written here! Perhaps you should run for political office? (Hey, I mean it as a compliment!)

From my limited perspective...I'd be very upset, probably to tears, if in my case somebody told me I had no right to speak Spanish because I was not born to and raised by Latin Americans or Spaniards. I did not choose how or where I was born. Sometimes I have been asked because of my accent if I am a native speaker, and this by people who ARE natives. But it's not because I'm pretending to be something I'm not--it's just because I take a lot of pride in getting it as right as I can. I have never had a native Spanish speaker, who most of you would probably agree is a member of a different culture than mine, tell me I have no right to speak their language because I wasn't born to parents who do.

Sometime I want to learn ASL because I love languages so much. But I have to admit...when I see some of the people who would judge me because I was born hearing, I get nervous. I'm shy enough as it is. I blush uncontrollably when I speak Spanish because of this and it's all I can do not to fall apart--this in spite of 8 years of study. But the thought of dealing with a hostile audience, if I tried ASL, makes part of me not want to try at all, because I don't want to be mocked or laughed at, either to my face or behind my back. I would already be self-conscious enough because of having to start from the beginning with a new language. I don't need the fear of being treated as an untermensch on top of that.

I KNOW not all people are like this. But it's just not good for someone who's as shy as I am.

 

[Liza]

I'm hoh, two hearing aids/severe hearing loss and have a hearing dog with me most of the time. I've had ha since a kid. My mother wanted me to attend the state school in Faribault, but, unknown at the time, it didn't cost anything. My dad said, "it costs money" so I didn't go...unfortunately.

I was visiting a church in Chattanooga, TN five years ago and one of the men there was signing with others and I was talking (orally) with the vp of the school I was visiting. Well, this guy was a hearie and, needless to say, I was a little turned off by him because he gave me the impression he was deaf. I didn't think it was very nice, but I didn't say anything. If I had gone to school and attended that church, he would not have been one of my friends because I feel that he was impersonating a deaf person, complete with all gestures. He admitted to me he was a hearie. And, I admitted, under my breath, that he was a jerk.

Since you expressed having lost out on attending a favored school due to your father's ignorance.. AND you do have my sympathy on that matter... I would like to suggest that your attitude toward that hearing person might be just you redirecting your anger from your father's ignorant excuse in not allowing you to attend that state school. The hearing person you met in church did. Unfair, right? WHY are you mad at the hearing person who HAD nothing to do with you not attending this institution.... I think you also dropped the bag by continuing to not take responsibility for yourself. You probably owe that hearing person an apology for being rude. I've eaten crow and every variety of humble pie there is... so I understand, OK?

You are not alone in the sea of ignorance that has prevented you from accomplishing goals. We all have been there. I just don't use the excuse that other hearing people have hurt me to do the same to different hearing people. I say that in a kind way... not to hurt you, OK? HUGS

I know very well how it can be difficult to be a Deaf person in this world. In many ways, we are still living in the dark ages. That hurts. But we also need to be aware that we also have the power to change what we don't like.. through our behavior, and that there are hearing people who are wonderful... and not like your father at all.

 

[Liza]

Liza...what a stirring speech you've written here! Perhaps you should run for political office? (Hey, I mean it as a compliment!)

From my limited perspective...I'd be very upset, probably to tears, if in my case somebody told me I had no right to speak Spanish because I was not born to and raised by Latin Americans or Spaniards. I did not choose how or where I was born. Sometimes I have been asked because of my accent if I am a native speaker, and this by people who ARE natives. But it's not because I'm pretending to be something I'm not--it's just because I take a lot of pride in getting it as right as I can. I have never had a native Spanish speaker, who most of you would probably agree is a member of a different culture than mine, tell me I have no right to speak their language because I wasn't born to parents who do.

Sometime I want to learn ASL because I love languages so much. But I have to admit...when I see some of the people who would judge me because I was born hearing, I get nervous. I'm shy enough as it is. I blush uncontrollably when I speak Spanish because of this and it's all I can do not to fall apart--this in spite of 8 years of study. But the thought of dealing with a hostile audience, if I tried ASL, makes part of me not want to try at all, because I don't want to be mocked or laughed at, either to my face or behind my back. I would already be self-conscious enough because of having to start from the beginning with a new language. I don't need the fear of being treated as an untermensch on top of that.

I KNOW not all people are like this. But it's just not good for someone who's as shy as I am.

Rose, thanks for expressing yourself honestly. You also get brownie points for taking the time to read my statements. LOL! JK. I also appreciate the thought that you feel I am qualified for politics, but.... that IS honestly scary to me! hehe.. in a sense, I am already involved in the politics of some communities. I guess we all are, in some ways.. in different communities and even in families and among friends. Jesus, we all deserve trophies for being involved in these types of politics and some of us probably deserve to be tarred and feathered! But.. try casting that first stone and all, ya know? Not me. Nope. hehehe

I think it's awesome that you are learning ASL.. and hope that you do meet people who can open their arms to you. I open mine to you. I do admit that I have some trepidation with the thought of communicating with people who automatically dismiss me as a moron not worthy of being their equal... on the basis of me being deaf. You would be amazed at how many I have met only think of "helping" me.. rather than socializing with me as an equal. We definitely have more in common than we may realize! We both can feel trepidation... hehe.

BTW.. you decide what is ethical and what is in your integrity. No one has the right to tell you otherwise in my personal opinion. I am proud to say that I have already have eaten crow myself. LOL. So, I guess we should be making allowances for one another.. and move on forward together?

 

[Rose Immortal]

Rose, thanks for expressing yourself honestly.

You're welcome, glad to know I didn't upset you. And before I get started, I should make sure to let you know you misread me...I'm not learning ASL yet. There's an evil monster called grad school taking up my time right now so I can't. But someday I would really want to.

I also appreciate the thought that you feel I am qualified for politics, but.... that IS honestly scary to me!

I understand...I'd hate the idea of being torn apart the way political candidates are. Maybe you should be a speechwriter and let someone else get torn apart.

I think it's awesome that you are learning ASL.. and hope that you do meet people who can open their arms to you. I open mine to you.

For whenever I DO have the chance to start--thanks.

I do admit that I have some trepidation with the thought of communicating with people who automatically dismiss me as a moron not worthy of being their equal... on the basis of me being deaf. You would be amazed at how many I have met only think of "helping" me.. rather than socializing with me as an equal. We definitely have more in common than we may realize! We both can feel trepidation... hehe.

I think it just underscores the point that when anyone tries to make contact with a group that's not "naturally" their own, there is going to be fear and misunderstandings on both sides.

 

[Liza]

You're welcome, glad to know I didn't upset you. And before I get started, I should make sure to let you know you misread me...I'm not learning ASL yet. There's an evil monster called grad school taking up my time right now so I can't. But someday I would really want to.



I understand...I'd hate the idea of being torn apart the way political candidates are. Maybe you should be a speechwriter and let someone else get torn apart.

Gotcha, I now understand what you mean. Sorry for assuming that you already knew some ASL. It still doesn't change a thing with me, though! I stand by everything I've said.

Nah, I wouldn't want to make anyone shark bait at my expense! You're safe with me. LOL!

 

[travisdoesmath]

Ok.. once again. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong if a hearie chooses to express herself or himself with sign language along with all other expressive points we enjoy that go with the territory. I am completely Deaf, and have been since birth. I also have a deep interest in study of human nature. I find it fascinating how some people seem to be triggered by something that they preceive to have a "monopoly" on, and feelings of entitlement are followed by seemingly patriotic statements.

I know I might be challenging some beliefs, but I am willing to risk that at my own expense.. otherwise I would be remiss. I'd like to clarify this POV with an example - it would be like having an english speaking hearie telling me to STOP using his language and to pretend to be hearie based on my excellent ability to use my voice. But.. isn't using voice strongly encouraged by many people of deaf/hoh/hearies, anyway? Would a swedish hearie be as angry as that english speaking hearie if I could speak Swedish proficiently? That's interesting, isn't it? I would like to explore this some more as well. It's also a possibility there are some indirect monopoly on having excellent skills in writing by the typical hearie - most hearies I meet are often surprised at how well I write english AND norwegian.... for a Deaf person. Allright I am better at english than I am at norwegian. I admit it. LOL But still.

I think it's acceptable that hearies dare to be as expressive as Deaf people, and that it is equally disturbing to me that some people are distressed about that... based on.. uh.. culturally territorial feelings? I could be missing something else as well. I guess I've faced worse than a hearie seeming to prefer using ASL to not take something like this to heart.

I truly feel that it is the fundmental right of every human to be able to express himself or herself in any way he or she is capable of.. and being expressive as a Culturally Deaf person certainly couldn't be out of that field of unlimited possibilities. As matter of fact, I would love it if every hearing person could learn to be expressive physically and emotionally as we are... and they certainly have a lot to learn from us, as we do them!

That is why I want us to consider the possibility when we harshly judge other hearies on their usage of ASL and their understanding of us... to be oppressive. The very same thing we know others do to us. Can hypocrisy be a possibility? Can we allow for tolerance and understanding for others... the way we want to have for ourselves by the same people?

In any case... honey always attract more than vinegar.

 

[travisdoesmath]

btw, travisdoesmath, you officially have the coolest title I've seen in quite some time. kudos to you.

 

[pek1]

ethnically deaf? what the hell does that mean? O_o

I think I said this the wrong way...tee hee, ahem. :Oops: I'm sure you're busting up laughing right now, which is what I'm doing, seeing the hole I dug for myself here...and trying to explain my way out of this doozy. Okay...here goes...you're in a situation somewhere, not a bad one, stay with me. Something appears out of place, out of the ordinary and you try to do something that will manipulate it so you don't think it's what you think it is. Are you with me? Good! My perception of this guy, first of all, he wasn't wearing hearing aids. I'm well aware that not all deaf wear them. Then, I started watching his mannerisms, body language and nonverbal messages he was giving out, which then gave him away. Yes, I did jump to conclusions, which I shouldn't have done.

 

[pek1]

Since you expressed having lost out on attending a favored school due to your father's ignorance.. AND you do have my sympathy on that matter... I would like to suggest that your attitude toward that hearing person might be just you redirecting your anger from your father's ignorant excuse in not allowing you to attend that state school. The hearing person you met in church did. Unfair, right? WHY are you mad at the hearing person who HAD nothing to do with you not attending this institution.... I think you also dropped the bag by continuing to not take responsibility for yourself. You probably owe that hearing person an apology for being rude. I've eaten crow and every variety of humble pie there is... so I understand, OK?

You are not alone in the sea of ignorance that has prevented you from accomplishing goals. We all have been there. I just don't use the excuse that other hearing people have hurt me to do the same to different hearing people. I say that in a kind way... not to hurt you, OK? HUGS

I know very well how it can be difficult to be a Deaf person in this world. In many ways, we are still living in the dark ages. That hurts. But we also need to be aware that we also have the power to change what we don't like.. through our behavior, and that there are hearing people who are wonderful... and not like your father at all.

Liza,

Point well taken and thank you, truly, for pointing that out to me. I used the wrong icons to convey the message, which I read through again and got the same impresson you did. I am embarrassed, but, now, having learned from this, time to move on and learn from it. Your response to me was very well thought out, with kids gloves on, and I really appreciate what you said. I posted another reply earlier today regarding a college which was along the same guidelines I said, of which you called me on. I see where I erred and will try my best to change it. I stand corrected. HUGS

 

[Liza]

Liza,

Point well taken and thank you, truly, for pointing that out to me. I used the wrong icons to convey the message, which I read through again and got the same impresson you did. I am embarrassed, but, now, having learned from this, time to move on and learn from it. Your response to me was very well thought out, with kids gloves on, and I really appreciate what you said. I posted another reply earlier today regarding a college which was along the same guidelines I said, of which you called me on. I see where I erred and will try my best to change it. I stand corrected. HUGS

HUGS Thanks for being okay with my input. I appreciate that you are a good sport and for the opportunity to express myself. I really do understand where you are coming from... I've been mad, I've been disappointed, you name it. There are good people out there... both hearing 'n Deaf, and I always have to remind myself of that. This thread was a fantastic reminder of that for me, and made it easy for me to express my thoughts. It seems that everyone around me makes me a better person. Consider yourself one of them!

Happy holidays!

 

[Loliepop]

so whats the best way for a hearee to join in the fun?

I'm 27 w/progressive HOH for 9 years. Now I'm faily good at reading lips and i'm taking ASL at a JC and trying to pass some of these signs only my beautiful angels (age 4 and 9). As much as this makes our fanily feel unique, we feel like outcasts both in hearing communities and DEAF. I understand DEAF community being wary of new members-but how do you jump in?
-Beth

 

[deafdyke]

Hey Beth!
I think it's harder for late deaf folks to jump into the Deaf community. However, you're still relatively young. It's not like you've got prebyscutis (sp?)
Are you a Visual person rather then a Hearing person? That can help. Be openminded....Be openminded.....use ALL resources, and don't close your mind as to possibilties or different ways of functioning. Some late deaf folks get caught up in the Healthy Hearing stuff and are all high and mighty about the fact that they're in the hearing world and don't need sign....

 

[Loliepop]

Thanks for the encouragment...any ideas of where to go now?

I admit I feel really lost sometimes. I feel like i'm in limbo, not in hearing and not DEAF. My multiple sclerosis sometimes causes the muscles in my mouth to become so heavy it's too painful to try to talk (or move anything, my lunch comes via a straw on those days) I remember just laying there and tears rolling down my face, I could hear things around me but not respond...lack of ability to communicate in any way became my version of hell. Skip a few years and I've made it through sign101, about 300 signs-pretty good start I think. I've taught my daughters (sponges theywant to learn every sign they can) and now we're to the point of sentences My 4 year old caught on really quickly that if she signed cookie or candy please she got a sweet because I was so proud of her But now where to begin? Where to meet others who will be patient with my lack of knowledge or speed? I want my daughters to learn and know that there is a community where signing doesn't get funny looks, where they don't have to defend their mommy (which breaks my heart). I'm terrified because I have no voice-hearing or sign, I must read lips of hearing and I only understand 1 out of 3 signs in a conversation, I want to learn-I need to learn-not for a grade but for a way of communication in life. If there was a wannabe of wannabe's I'd be it-but not to pretend I'm something I'm not-to find a way to be myself. A way to deal with not being able to hear a doorbell or know where sounds are coming from (my hearing is limited to one ear, my spacial sound ability is gone)
Sorry long and drawn out...I'm very grateful for the support
-Beth

 

[pek1]

Sorry long and drawn out...I'm very grateful for the support
-Beth

Beth,

If I can have someone on the forums here tell me they know exactly where I'm coming from, then I think I can tell you that you are NOT "long and drawn out..." HUGS I've also taken one year of asl, would like to take more...but my schedule this fall is booked solid, have already inquired for spring semester, will have to wait -n see.

 

[Teresh]

I think I said this the wrong way...tee hee, ahem. :Oops: I'm sure you're busting up laughing right now, which is what I'm doing, seeing the hole I dug for myself here...and trying to explain my way out of this doozy. Okay...here goes...you're in a situation somewhere, not a bad one, stay with me. Something appears out of place, out of the ordinary and you try to do something that will manipulate it so you don't think it's what you think it is. Are you with me? Good! My perception of this guy, first of all, he wasn't wearing hearing aids. I'm well aware that not all deaf wear them. Then, I started watching his mannerisms, body language and nonverbal messages he was giving out, which then gave him away. Yes, I did jump to conclusions, which I shouldn't have done.

Ah... That. I don't really think there's a word for that in English... I mean, the notion of being able to figure out that something is something that would to most people be invisible.

Like, gay people have gaydar... You usually can't see someone is gay, but if you are gay or involved in the Queer community, you often gain the ability to just 'know' if someone is gay or not. Now, I guess given the term gaydar's acceptance there could in principle be a parallel word for deaf/hh people, that is, a term for the ability to spot a dhh person by how they act. But I wouldn't know what it is.

Anyone want to invent such a word? I'm too lazy to bother.

 

[travisdoesmath]

Ah... That. I don't really think there's a word for that in English... I mean, the notion of being able to figure out that something is something that would to most people be invisible.

Like, gay people have gaydar... You usually can't see someone is gay, but if you are gay or involved in the Queer community, you often gain the ability to just 'know' if someone is gay or not. Now, I guess given the term gaydar's acceptance there could in principle be a parallel word for deaf/hh people, that is, a term for the ability to spot a dhh person by how they act. But I wouldn't know what it is.

Anyone want to invent such a word? I'm too lazy to bother.

In the process of trying to invent such a word, I came up with some OTHER types

Mental Detector - Being able to spot a nutcase

Praydar - Feeling the presence of miracles

Skintuition - Sensing when someone is wearing revealing clothing before you see them


still nothing for dhh though :/

deaftuition? (sounds like student fees at Gallaudet)
deafdar? (doesn't have the same ring to it)

Any ideas?

 

[pek1]

Ah... That. I don't really think there's a word for that in English... I mean, the notion of being able to figure out that something is something that would to most people be invisible.

Like, gay people have gaydar... You usually can't see someone is gay, but if you are gay or involved in the Queer community, you often gain the ability to just 'know' if someone is gay or not. Now, I guess given the term gaydar's acceptance there could in principle be a parallel word for deaf/hh people, that is, a term for the ability to spot a dhh person by how they act. But I wouldn't know what it is.

Anyone want to invent such a word? I'm too lazy to bother.

Okay...let me crack this one again, hopefully without embarrassing myself. As hoh, the first place I look at to another person is their ears, to see if there are hearing aids. Then, other body language that would give signals that the person is hoh or deaf. Yes, there is body language, believe it or not, regardless of the ability of hearing, there is always body language, which is what I'm learning in my Interpersonal Communication class. Nonverbals and other signals...

 

[Loliepop]

I'd really love some ettiquite (perhaps there's a place online for me to look at?) I'm completely clueless about relay (domeone told me I can relay from my buddy list? on yahoo or aol? My biggest/only concern are my precious angels. I have about 2 hours a day when my brain is fresh and speach is intellegible...after that time...I cried when my daughter school called and she was sick and needed to go home I mouthed be right there as best as I could put it, she's ok. it's just the emergency things. If you can do relay does one just type in every important number...I don't want to waste anyones time with this-I just don't know where to look a lot of these things up. Late Deaf Adult (is that the correct abbreviation) the webpagwe I saw on them mention thier mission statement and how to become a member but nothing differectly related to...well like a brand new HOH basket of info
-Beth

 

[travisdoesmath]

Okay...let me crack this one again, hopefully without embarrassing myself. As hoh, the first place I look at to another person is their ears, to see if there are hearing aids. Then, other body language that would give signals that the person is hoh or deaf. Yes, there is body language, believe it or not, regardless of the ability of hearing, there is always body language, which is what I'm learning in my Interpersonal Communication class. Nonverbals and other signals...

you should also be learning that nonverbal communication is largely unconscious, so why are you blaming this guy for unconsciously doing things that you normally associate with dhh? Communication needs a sender and a receiver, and you MUST take into account that your own bias might be creating unnecessary noise.

 

[pek1]

you should also be learning that nonverbal communication is largely unconscious, so why are you blaming this guy for unconsciously doing things that you normally associate with dhh? Communication needs a sender and a receiver, and you MUST take into account that your own bias might be creating unnecessary noise.

That might be true, Travis. One sure fire way to find out is to ask the receiver if that's what they're saying, but one would never know unless asked. Therefore, assumptions get a person into trouble in the meantime.