Gas

How about VEGETABLE OIL!!!! I'm sure Farmers will be happy
about that... using Vegetable oil for car.

Updated: 07:00 PM EDT
School Buses Switching to Biodiesel Fuel
By BRIAN FARKAS, AP

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (Oct. 1) - Sherry Dean has a secret she's been keeping from her drivers since March - their Upshur County school buses are running on an alternative fuel made of vegetable oil and diesel.

"I wanted to run it without my drivers or mechanics knowing," she said. "That way I can have a true feeling for how it's doing."

So far, the results have been "great."

Dean is among a slowly growing number of county transportation directors in West Virginia and across the nation who are switching from straight diesel to a mixture of diesel and biodiesel, a fuel based primarily on vegetable oils.

Biodiesel use has been growing since 1992 when Congress passed the Energy Policy Act in a move to reduce the nation's dependency on foreign oil. It has since been approved by the federal Environmental Protection Agency as an alternative fuel.

Since 1999, biodiesel use nationwide has grown from 500,000 gallons to 25 million gallons in 2004. It is estimated that usage will surpass 50 million gallons this year, said Amber Pearson with the Missouri-based National Biodiesel Board. The board was established in 1992 by soybean commodity groups to promote the use and research of biodiesel.

School systems have contributed to the growth. About 100 systems nationwide have made the switch, "and that number is growing all the time," Pearson said.

Nevada's Clark County started using the fuel after lawmakers in that state required the phased-in purchase of alternative-powered vehicles. The school system, which includes Las Vegas, uses about 3 million gallons a year, said Frank Giordano, who oversees the county's fleet of 1,300 school buses and 1,600 other vehicles.

"The good part of that is we've displaced 600,000 gallons of petroleum fuel," said Giordano. "That's something we're pretty proud of."

While county and school officials say they haven't noticed any appreciable increase in miles-per-gallon, they all say biodiesel doesn't require expensive modifications to their diesel engine buses. Also, the fuel produces less emissions and is healthier for the 24 million schoolchildren who ride buses daily.

And, perhaps, more importantly, recent petroleum price increases - coupled with state and federal incentives - now makes biodiesel an economical choice.

The EPA announced a $7.5 million grant program over the summer to help school systems reduce emissions from their older buses through replacing engines or switching to alternative fuels.

Kentucky officials expect to announce a $48,000 grant program in October. The state's 176 county and municipal school systems can use the money to pay the difference between regular diesel and biodiesel.

New Jersey also offers biodiesel on a statewide contract for local and state agencies to use. The state also has a biodiesel rebate program to offset the additional cost.

Four of West Virginia's 55 counties are using the fuel, and several more are planning to make the switch. Those that do use biodiesel are eligible for increased state transportation funding.

"I was banking on fuel continuing to rise," said Buster Nicholson, Jefferson County's operations director. "It's kind of a hedge against inflation."

The county, which is about 90 miles from Washington, D.C., began using the fuel in May and Nicholson said the change may generate about $60,000 in additional funding from the state Department of Education.

Under the state school aid formula, counties receive about 85 cents for every dollar in transportation costs. By switching to biodiesel, the reimbursement increases to 95 cents. While it takes up to two years for the state to begin paying at the higher rate, "once that cycle kicks in, it just keeps coming," Nicholson said.

Increased consumer interest and state and federal tax incentives for producers means there are now about 1,500 biodiesel distributors nationwide.

"It's a matter of economics," said Rich Cregar with the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium at West Virginia University. "I don't think anybody is arguing we're going to see cheap oil again.

"Alternative fuels will be economically viable."

As the operations manager for the nation's longest running user of biodiesel in school buses, Joe Biluck Jr. has seen the industry evolve.

"Today, I'm happy to say there has been a tremendous amount of interest," said Biluck, director of operations for the Medford Township, N.J., school system. "The supply chain is improving."

When Biluck started using biodiesel, the closest distributor was in Massachusetts. He is now able to purchase fuel from a supplier in nearby Philadelphia.

Biodiesel supporters refer to the fuel as a renewable energy source since it is partly based on soybeans or other oil-producing vegetables. The common mixture is 20 percent biodiesel, 80 percent diesel fuel.

The fuel requires less technology to produce than ethanol, and Cregar said studies have shown that fuels based on soybeans and other crops could produce up to 3.5 million barrels of fuel daily.

An improperly mixed batch, however, can cause problems with a bus, or even make it stop running, said Marion County Transportation Director Tim James. Marion was the first county in West Virginia to begin using the fuel in its 79 buses.

"Just make sure when it's delivered, it's mixed," James said.

The EPA is requiring refiners to produce lower sulfur diesel fuel beginning next year, and diesel engine manufacturers to build cleaner burning engines by 2010. The agency estimates the new rule will cut emissions of smog-forming nitrogen oxides, soot, carbon monoxide, acid rain-causing sulfur dioxide and other air pollutants, preventing 8,300 premature deaths, more than 9,500 hospitalizations and 1.5 million lost work days.

"I consider it a very effective transition technology," Biluck said. "Five to eight years from now we'll be talking about something different."

In the interim, using biodiesel "shows people we are trying to do everything we can to offset energy costs and at the same time, be more sustainable," he said.


10/01/05 18:45 EDT
 
Reba said:
What do you tekkie engineering types think of this idea? It is about converting coal to gas.

I heard of something like this being kicked around for decades. The article is correct that at the time this was first broached the cost of oil wasn't high enough to justify the economics of the process.

I'm glad to see that with the price of oil these days that there is serious consideration given to this and other ideas floating out there. We desperately need to reduce our oil dependence. If it is more environmentally friendly, so much the better. One good thing about all this, we have so much coal and shale that we can easily reduce and maybe even turn off the oil spigot from overseas.
 
I am so curious about what if all our oil runs out, then
what will we do?

Use a fireplace or build an igloo or have a heater or
everybody be unemploy, nobody can't go to work.

We can work at home, because we got computer,
don't need to go to work at an office place...
can do it at home and have our own desk...

Not have to get up every morning and can sleep :zzz:
And and and then we can have a boss making sure nothing
is delay, we can fax work to him and all of that...
And have a meeting with Tele O Vision..... people
can demostrate their work on that.

Would that be a nice idea? :fingersx:
 
Miss*Pinocchio said:
I am so curious about what if all our oil runs out, then
what will we do?

Use a fireplace or build an igloo or have a heater or
everybody be unemploy, nobody can't go to work.

We can work at home, because we got computer,
don't need to go to work at an office place...
can do it at home and have our own desk...

Not have to get up every morning and can sleep :zzz:
And and and then we can have a boss making sure nothing
is delay, we can fax work to him and all of that...
And have a meeting with Tele O Vision..... people
can demostrate their work on that.

Would that be a nice idea? :fingersx:

Gee, I think that it won't work this way. Everything that we lose the energy (gas, heater, and electricity). We may not survive in the freezing winter. We could be in a big trouble. It might be a 2nd civil war because everything is nothing free - no access to get free solar power and windpowers. Here is John Kennedy's speech:

"My fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country." Unfortunately, this speech is no longer true in our era.

That's my opinion.
 
Dems Decry U.S. Dependence on Fossil Fuels Sat Oct 1, 3:30 PM ET



WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is not doing enough to push for energy conservation as fuel costs skyrocket since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state said Saturday in the Democrats' weekly radio address.

"Conservation must be more than a convenient slogan," Cantwell said. "Recently, the administration has rejected conservation attempts like more accurate fuel mileage for cars and bipartisan proposals for reducing our dependence on foreign oil by a million barrels a day."

Cantwell, who will be seeking her second term next year, said Democrats want new laws to protect consumers from price-gouging and encourage investment in lightweight materials and alternative fuels.

Rising fuel prices are costing people their jobs, pensions and their businesses, she said. Farmers are having a hard time breaking even, and school districts are being forced to choose between hiring new teachers and covering higher energy bills, she added.

"These are the terrible consequences of our overdependence on fossil fuel," Cantwell said. "The natural disasters of Katrina and Rita have showed us firsthand how truly vulnerable we are."
 
Nesmuth's New Toy!

My answer to the fossil fuel problem. Lots of calories to burn for each mile too. It still needs a little fixing up but im real happy I'm going to reduce my dependence on fossil fuel real soon.

Richard
 

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Nesmuth said:
My answer to the fossil fuel problem. Lots of calories to burn for each mile too. It still needs a little fixing up but im real happy I'm going to reduce my dependence on fossil fuel real soon.

Richard

That's good idea! :cheers:
 
Not only is it a good idea, its will be a neccesity for survival.

We have about 12 years left of unrestricted access to fossil fuels and once that time comes, it will be important for the society to address it. My definition of unrestricted access is the ample availability of fuel and the low cost of obtaining it at $3.00 a gallon and without rationing.

It's my belief that mother nature will be the big calling card for restrictions due to global warming, increased hurricanes, tornadoes, and weakened snow fall ratios. Society will have to bear the big expense of chaos and deaths due to big weather anomolies like Katrina caused by the increasing global dependence on fossil fuels before they act to preserve society.

It's very important we all become familiar with alternative transportation because when it comes to the time we have to impose additional restrictions to accessing fossil fuels, we can be able to reduce chaos and confusion.

And I've taken a good headstart on preparing myself for alternative transportations once additional restrictions like $5 or $6 gallon gas or rationing because when it happens I will be around to see it and therefore be prepared.

Richard Roehm
 
I don't mind bicycling but it doesn't work out well for terp jobs. We have to go from one assignment to another, 36 miles apart, in less than an hour, on 70 mph highways, and arrive sweat-free and well-groomed. Also, Hubby's work requires using a full-size van, and he is not in that good of shape that he can pedal it (ha, ha).

Honestly, if gas gets rationed, he and I will both be out of work. :(
 
How about investing in cars that run on electricity?
And hybrid cars?

http://hybridcars.com/

The government is even checking this possibility. :)

National Renewable Energy Lab on such cars
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/hev/

The government apparently will give a Clean-fuel vehicle federal tax deduction when you purchase a hybrid car.
Source

Heck, consider ridin' horses or a team of cats dragging a wagon. hehee

Moral of this post? There's always hope, even if a well used door is about to be shut for good. A new door will just have to open in its stead. LOL!
 
The main problem with hybrids is the expensive batteries replacement when they wear out. Sorry, I can't get one anytime soon cuz of batteries, shrugs. The cost of ownership doesn't make much difference, either.

Liza said:
How about investing in cars that run on electricity?
And hybrid cars?

http://hybridcars.com/

The government is even checking this possibility. :)

National Renewable Energy Lab on such cars
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/hev/

Heck, consider ridin' horses or a team of cats dragging a wagon. hehee

Moral of this post? There's always hope, even if a well used door is about to be shut for good. A new door will just have to open in its stead. LOL!
 
sequoias said:
The main problem with hybrids is the expensive batteries replacement when they wear out. Sorry, I can't get one anytime soon cuz of batteries, shrugs. The cost of ownership doesn't make much difference, either.

Out of curiousity, how long does the batteries last before you have to replace them?

Isn't cleaner air great value in owning a hybrid? ;)
 
Liza said:
Out of curiousity, how long does the batteries last before you have to replace them?

Isn't cleaner air great value in owning a hybrid? ;)

Average lifespan for batteries is only 5 years and they cost more than $5,000 for a replacement.

I would go for a electric car over a hybrid, all you need is electricity. :) I wish they went for electric cars in the early 1900's...instead they went for gasoline powered cars since then....and didn't pay much attention to electric car .
 
sequoias said:
Average lifespan for batteries is only 5 years and they cost more than $5,000 for a replacement.

I would go for a electric car over a hybrid, all you need is electricity. :) I wish they went for electric cars in the early 1900's...instead they went for gasoline powered cars since then....and didn't pay much attention to electric car .

Wow, that's like buying ANOTHER car with 5k. How much would gas cost us in 5 years with all the rise in prices considered?

Electric cars.. oh yeah, that's cool. Pretty ideal to have every car generate its own source of fuel. Wish they started on electric cars way baaack then, too! *sigh* Can you say industrial revolution and lack of hindsight back then?
:P LOL
 
Hmm, hydrogen-powered cars... is that another feasible possibility?
I'd be afraid to use solar powered cars.. **not driving at night with one** LOL
 
Liza said:
Hmm, hydrogen-powered cars... is that another feasible possibility?
I'd be afraid to use solar powered cars.. **not driving at night with one** LOL

They're working on hydrogen cars in mass production scale in near future, I think. The biodiesel/vegetable oil powered diesel is getting popular now....it's cleaner than regular diesel fuel and vegetable oil is cheaper because u use vegetable oil waste from the fast food restaurants and you need a convertion equipment installed in a diesel powered car and it will run vegetable oil no problem. ;)
 
sequoias said:
They're working on hydrogen cars in mass production scale in near future, I think. The biodiesel/vegetable oil powered diesel is getting popular now....it's cleaner than regular diesel fuel and vegetable oil is cheaper because u use vegetable oil waste from the fast food restaurants and you need a convertion equipment installed in a diesel powered car and it will run vegetable oil no problem. ;)
I like the vegetable oil solution best. That solves two problems at once.
 
I thought USA is the only country that use the most SUVs...
why they blame SUVs for using up gas and global warming?

We got Trucks and buses and things like that, that use many gas...
Why not complain about those kind of vehicles.
 
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