Feelings on Cochlear implants

Lily'sDad: that's exactly what I mean. Let's take our hypothetical super-borg, who has 'perfect' hearing with a CI. The risks that the soldier will have battery issues or that their CI will need repair or fall off or whatever are too high. Without the CI, they're still deaf; and the CI is not infallible. "Points of failure" is an engineering term that is used to refer to situations like that; a point of failure is anywhere that something could go wrong or break, even temporarily.
 
Agreed

deafdyke said:
Thanks, I was wondering about that............and there ARE kids 7 to 8 year old, who have such bad speech/ language skills? WOW.........Just WOW!!!!
I have to say that I think that it should be the law that dhh kids should get intervention through the Deaf schools..........I really think a big part of the problem is that a lot of kids are simply served in general EI programs. Those types of programs are good for kids with cognitive and physical issues, but they tend to really suck for blind and deaf kids.
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Our son is deaf due to Connexin-26, and yet we still get regular contact from MRDD. While we are fortunate to be able to provide any education we choose for Drew, I find it ridiculous that the first attempt is to have him lumped into classes with kids with cognitive, motor skill, and other difficulties.

The kids with motor skill difficulties need teaching which is trained and focused on dealing with their special issues, and the same with deaf children.

It doesn't make sense to lump all of them together, and I bet the education of each group suffers because of their vast difference in needs and abilities to learn in response to a single type of education.
 
Drew's Dad said:
Our son is deaf due to Connexin-26, and yet we still get regular contact from MRDD. While we are fortunate to be able to provide any education we choose for Drew, I find it ridiculous that the first attempt is to have him lumped into classes with kids with cognitive, motor skill, and other difficulties.

The kids with motor skill difficulties need teaching which is trained and focused on dealing with their special issues, and the same with deaf children.

It doesn't make sense to lump all of them together, and I bet the education of each group suffers because of their vast difference in needs and abilities to learn in response to a single type of education.
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Agreed...at my school, we have 3 programs to fit the kids needs.

We have the elementary program which are students who r performing on their academic level

Transitional program for students who don't have cognitive disabilities but r 1 to 3 years delayed in academic development

Then we have the ES prgram that serve deaf children with additional needs like emotional/behavior disorders, austism, mental retardation, and other severe cognitive disabilities.

I feel blessed to have learned how to work with such a diverse population of deaf children. I learned a lot from them. :)
 
ismi said:
Jillio is right. All men, eligible for service or not, need to register, but CI users can't serve - the CI just has too many potential points of failure.
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There are military servicemen who has CI are still active in armed force...

like for example those who had a sudden deafness (not from combat) or experiencing progressive loss while active in armed force, I have read few article about them.

I also have a friend who is in armed force and his hoh not severe hoh but just hoh.. he has good listening skills we went to same high school in Ga. He did try to let the Selective Service know that he has hearing impairment but upon hearing test, they found that he has sufficient hearing to be enlisted.


But it is true that a person who was deaf to begin (congenitally deaf or prelingually deaf) will not be able to serve in armed force regardless this person has CI or not. Just those existing servicemen already serving in armed force will continue to stay in military with CI or HA )

The only training that deaf can get is ROTC as long they are HOH with good listening and speech skills. *shrug*
 
shel90 said:
Some hearing people have told my deaf friends who have deaf kids that they r being selfish for not implanting their children. There reason was that the deaf parents r not providing their child with the option or opportunity to hear.

*sighs* Maybe we all need to stop fighting with each other and just leave everyone alone about their decision on whether to implant the child or not and provide both sign and oral languages to all these children, implanted or not so they have all the opportunities given to them (speech development, auditory input development, visual language, identity and blah blah)

Another way of solving this problem, but impossible, is having 90% of deaf/hoh being born to deaf people and 10% being born to hearing parents. Just saring what was going thru my head so pls do not take it literally. Thanks
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Yes Shel, I totally agree and it's what myself and many others have said over and over again. It's a parents decision and a private family matter of what is in the best interest for a given child. The fighting and bickering starts only when some people chime in and bash parents for choosing to go with an implant. I have asked the tough questions and get answers only to see the same posters get wishy washy and change their position depending on the context of the thread. To me, that speaks volumes as to the mindset of some on this board and it really hurts their case. I can't take anyone seriously that changes their answers depending the situation.
 
Rock Drummer, Very well said! The main reason I am still on AD is to give REAL info on CIs to parents of deaf kids, or adults that coem here for advice.
 
rockdrummer said:
Jillio, I can understand how a child would be resentful after being convinced by some in the deaf culture that the parents did it for selfish reasons. It's a fear I have for my child after seeing how some continually insist parents make this choice for selfish reasons even though they have been told over and over that the decision was not for selfish reasons.
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Rockdrummer, I don't think that is something you need to worry about. Judging from your posts, I would say that you have a very open, honest relationship with your child. Keep those lines of communication open, and if the question ever comes up, just be honest in your answers, and the relationship will continue to thrive and grow stronger. I know as my son has gotten older, I have had to answer some questions that forced me to admit to him that maybe I did handle the situation in the wrong way, but that my motives were not what they might have seemed. For instance, he wanted to know why I insisted that he use an FM system when he was mainstreamed even though he hated it, and he saw it as my taking the side of the school system over him. I explained that I was very sorry that the situation had made him feel that way, but at that point I was still learning myself, and truly thought that I was doing what was in his best interest. All has been forgiven as long as you are honest.
 
Boult said:
There are military servicemen who has CI are still active in armed force...

like for example those who had a sudden deafness (not from combat) or experiencing progressive loss while active in armed force, I have read few article about them.

I also have a friend who is in armed force and his hoh not severe hoh but just hoh.. he has good listening skills we went to same high school in Ga. He did try to let the Selective Service know that he has hearing impairment but upon hearing test, they found that he has sufficient hearing to be enlisted.


But it is true that a person who was deaf to begin (congenitally deaf or prelingually deaf) will not be able to serve in armed force regardless this person has CI or not. Just those existing servicemen already serving in armed force will continue to stay in military with CI or HA )

The only training that deaf can get is ROTC as long they are HOH with good listening and speech skills. *shrug*
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This si true, they are allowed to serve out their enlistment time, but they are taken out of active duty, and relegated to desk jobs.
 
Lillys dad said:
Rock Drummer, Very well said! The main reason I am still on AD is to give REAL info on CIs to parents of deaf kids, or adults that coem here for advice.
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Thanks man, and for the record, I'm glad you are still on this board to do exactly what you stated. I am right behind you my brother!
 
jillio said:
Rockdrummer, I don't think that is something you need to worry about. Judging from your posts, I would say that you have a very open, honest relationship with your child. Keep those lines of communication open, and if the question ever comes up, just be honest in your answers, and the relationship will continue to thrive and grow stronger. I know as my son has gotten older, I have had to answer some questions that forced me to admit to him that maybe I did handle the situation in the wrong way, but that my motives were not what they might have seemed. For instance, he wanted to know why I insisted that he use an FM system when he was mainstreamed even though he hated it, and he saw it as my taking the side of the school system over him. I explained that I was very sorry that the situation had made him feel that way, but at that point I was still learning myself, and truly thought that I was doing what was in his best interest. All has been forgiven as long as you are honest.
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Thank you Jillio for those words of encouragment. I just don't want other people putting bad thoughts in his head as I have seen from others here. The CI is not the miracle cure and it doesn't work for many but it's not the evil thing that is going to destroy deaf culture either. Perhaps its ignorance and fear that motivate those that think it will. I can empathise with them but at the same time the logical part of me says they have nothing to worry about.. Thanks again!
 
rockdrummer said:
Thank you Jillio for those words of encouragment. I just don't want other people putting bad thoughts in his head as I have seen from others here. The CI is not the miracle cure and it doesn't work for many but it's not the evil thing that is going to destroy deaf culture either. Perhaps its ignorance and fear that motivate those that think it will. I can empathise with them but at the same time the logical part of me says they have nothing to worry about.. Thanks again!
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I think it is mostly fear...I don't know about ignorance. For so long, it was always hearing people who made the decisions of how we should live our lives and many deaf people in the past tried to tell them that they r happy being deaf and it is not so bad so it seems like the invention of CIs was another way of not accepting their opinions and suggestions. Someone who is a deaf advocate told me that..she is from the older generation of deaf people who r extremely angry about the oppression they felt growing up during the times when deaf people were viewed as an embarrassment in society. Ironically, it seems like it was the fear and ignorance of hearing people during those times that lead to the fear and ignorance of this particular generation of deafness about CIs? I cud be wrong but it is a thought that cud be a possibility to why we have people who are so anti-CI.

I used to be anti-CI cuz I saw them as another way of medical specialist trying to make us into "hearing" instead of accepting that deafness isn't so bad with all these accodomations and with society accepting us more and more these days.

Now, I don't see it that way anymore cuz it doesn't do me any good to be anti-CI and bash people for getting CIs. :)

I agree with Jillio about being honest with your son about whatever decisions u have made. Maybe he will go thru a resentful stage...I went thru it while a student at Gallaudet cuz it was when I realized I was denied full access to language growing up. Now, I am past it and my mom and I r closer than ever. I wish my dad was more like u. He has always been uninterested in our education...always interested in doing the fun stuff only. At least he gave us good memories so I harbor no bitter feelings against him. That's just who he is.

Hope everything goes well. :)
 
jillio said:
This si true, they are allowed to serve out their enlistment time, but they are taken out of active duty, and relegated to desk jobs.
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No, they don't have to be taken out of active duty. IE: those can perform active duty on ship rather than on battleground.

Just that they won't see combat action up close with machine gun. Also, they can be career officer if they wanted to. There are some higher up officers with some hearing loss wearing hearing aids.. sheesh!
 
Boult said:
No, they don't have to be taken out of active duty. IE: those can perform active duty on ship rather than on battleground.

Just that they won't see combat action up close with machine gun. Also, they can be career officer if they wanted to. There are some higher up officers with some hearing loss wearing hearing aids.. sheesh!
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I just spoke to my husband about this topic of people with CIs serving in the armed forces. He is a former Marine and his dad was in the Navy for 20 years before retiring. He told me that any deaf or hoh CAN NOT serve in ANY armed forces or be active unless they can hear like hearing people 100% of the time. Now, don't kill the messenger as I don't know much about this but my husband is a policy maker for the Marine Corp Division at the Pentagon and I felt he would know a lot more than I do.

He said the reasons...a CI has a risk of failing just like any technology devices and that carries a huge risk if an emergency should happen. He gave me an example..if a torpendo strikes a ship and water is all over the place. Can a CI be effective in water? If it can't be then the soldier is virtualy useless and pose a risk to himself and others.

It does make sense to me. I honestly wouldn't want that happening in a war zone or a battle. My myself and others at risk just because my CI, for some reason, fails.
 
shel90 said:
I just spoke to my husband about this topic of people with CIs serving in the armed forces. He is a former Marine and his dad was in the Navy for 20 years before retiring. He told me that any deaf or hoh CAN NOT serve in ANY armed forces or be active unless they can hear like hearing people 100% of the time. Now, don't kill the messenger as I don't know much about this but my husband is a policy maker for the Marine Corp Division at the Pentagon and I felt he would know a lot more than I do.

He said the reasons...a CI has a risk of failing just like any technology devices and that carries a huge risk if an emergency should happen. He gave me an example..if a torpendo strikes a ship and water is all over the place. Can a CI be effective in water? If it can't be then the soldier is virtualy useless and pose a risk to himself and others.

It does make sense to me. I honestly wouldn't want that happening in a war zone or a battle. My myself and others at risk just because my CI, for some reason, fails.
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So is my family! My dad was in Navy, my brother was in navy and currently my oldest niece is Navy/Fleet Marine and my two nephews are both in Army and Navy. my ex-brother in law is career officer in navy So what?

Now this article may kill the messenger sorry! not my intention;
Deaf Today v2.0: Implants restore world of sounds

see the last part of the article.. that's why I said they don't have to be taken out of active duty after getting CI and continue to function.

And that's why in my previous post that I said only those with sudden loss or progressive hearing loss can get CI can continue. but Armed Forces don't enlist those congenitally deaf or prelingually deaf or became deafened before entering armed force.

And what's more, they are working on a way to restore their hearing so they can continue to serve on active duty in armed forces.

there's a update on this airman via this page;
Wilford Hall Cochlear Implant Program

first sentence in that page.

The article from DT mentioned the Wilford Hall Cochlear Implant Program which is shown in 2nd link above.

when you read the "update" you will see that he said he joined air force with some hearing loss. hmm?

like I said my friend who is HOH is currently serving in armed force in Ga. *shrug*
 
Boult said:
So is my family! My dad was in Navy, my brother was in navy and currently my oldest niece is Navy/Fleet Marine and my two nephews are both in Army and Navy. my ex-brother in law is career officer in navy
So what?



Now this article may kill the messenger sorry! not my intention;
Deaf Today v2.0: Implants restore world of sounds

see the last part of the article.. that's why I said they don't have to be taken out of active duty after getting CI and continue to function.

And that's why in my previous post that I said only those with sudden loss or progressive hearing loss can get CI can continue. but Armed Forces don't enlist those congenitally deaf or prelingually deaf or became deafened before entering armed force.

And what's more, they are working on a way to restore their hearing so they can continue to serve on active duty in armed forces.

there's a update on this airman via this page;
Wilford Hall Cochlear Implant Program

first sentence in that page.

The article from DT mentioned the Wilford Hall Cochlear Implant Program which is shown in 2nd link above.

when you read the "update" you will see that he said he joined air force with some hearing loss. hmm?

like I said my friend who is HOH is currently serving in armed force in Ga. *shrug*
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Just shared this with my husband....The messenger misunderstood. LOL!

When he said deaf people with CIs cant serve on any armed forces, I took it as any deaf or hoh people, prelingual and postligual, couldnt serve at all.

He clarified what he meant by that. He said if someone became deaf in the military, they will give that person the option of leaving or being placed in a more appropriate job but that person cant be on enemy lines.

He said people have to pass a hearing test before joining and if hoh can pass it, they can join but will be assigned to jobs that are not on enemy lines.

He said people who were born deaf cant serve in the armed forces.

Like I said, I have limited knowledge on the subject of armed forces so I am not surprised that I misunderstood his points.

Now, this is the time to shoot the messenger. LOL!
 
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shel90 said:
I think it is mostly fear...I don't know about ignorance. For so long, it was always hearing people who made the decisions of how we should live our lives and many deaf people in the past tried to tell them that they r happy being deaf and it is not so bad so it seems like the invention of CIs was another way of not accepting their opinions and suggestions. Someone who is a deaf advocate told me that..she is from the older generation of deaf people who r extremely angry about the oppression they felt growing up during the times when deaf people were viewed as an embarrassment in society. Ironically, it seems like it was the fear and ignorance of hearing people during those times that lead to the fear and ignorance of this particular generation of deafness about CIs? I cud be wrong but it is a thought that cud be a possibility to why we have people who are so anti-CI.

I used to be anti-CI cuz I saw them as another way of medical specialist trying to make us into "hearing" instead of accepting that deafness isn't so bad with all these accodomations and with society accepting us more and more these days.

Now, I don't see it that way anymore cuz it doesn't do me any good to be anti-CI and bash people for getting CIs. :)

I agree with Jillio about being honest with your son about whatever decisions u have made. Maybe he will go thru a resentful stage...I went thru it while a student at Gallaudet cuz it was when I realized I was denied full access to language growing up. Now, I am past it and my mom and I r closer than ever. I wish my dad was more like u. He has always been uninterested in our education...always interested in doing the fun stuff only. At least he gave us good memories so I harbor no bitter feelings against him. That's just who he is.

Hope everything goes well. :)
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Shel, Thanks and what you say about the elders makes sense. Humanity has come a long ways over the years. Look at some of the horrible things that we have done to each other in the past. But I am at least happy to see progress towards treating fellow humans with dignity and respect regardless of their race, color, creed, special needs, hearing impairments etc. While there is still ignorance out there, education and awarness will help reduce that and for the ones that are just fearfull perhaps exposure my help. You will never elimniate audist attitudes completly just as you will never eliminate racisim or discrimination. There are always going to be people that are like that. They are thorns on the ass of society.

So I can empathise with the older generations about their feelings towards the hearing but you also have to understand that just because some deafies are completly happy and content being deaf, others may not be. The choice of isolation or assimilation is just that. A choice. The technology and devices are meerly options. If someone wants to stay deaf, nobody is forcing them to do otherwise. Even if a parent decides to implant their child, the child is still deaf and always has the choice to not use the CI. I also believe that it's not possible to force anyone to do anything they don't want to. I hear alot about this topic and I often wonder why there aren't more deaf advocates or lobbyists that invoke change. It amazes me when I hear things like deaf educators are able to prove using ASL is more effective at language acusition than SEE but are not able to effect change in the educational system. Most educated people wouldn't argue against emperical benchmarks. How could they? Perhaps its the testing methods that are in question.

At the end of the day, the goal for any capable human should be to become a self reliant productive member of society. The educational system be it for deaf or hearing has that goal in mind. It seems that the controversy stems around the methods to get there. I hear alot on that and often wonder if anyone is doing anything about it.
 
Most Deaf culture want to keep their rights to have deaf children, they do not want any government forcing them to have their children implanted when they love their children the way they are. They also want a culture who will accepts deafness as normal. That's why they are strongly against CI. As long as the parents', both deaf and hearing, rights are protected, I think everything will be ok.
 
nightcrickets said:
Most Deaf culture want to keep their rights to have deaf children, they do not want any government forcing them to have their children implanted when they love their children the way they are. They also want a culture who will accepts deafness as normal. That's why they are strongly against CI. As long as the parents', both deaf and hearing, rights are protected, I think everything will be ok.
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For the first part I am in agreement and I dont know of any government that forces deaf kids to be implanted. For the second part it would depend on your definition of normal. From my perspecive the norm would be associated with the majority. If the majority of people in the world were deaf, then deafness would be the norm. For me it's a matter of live and let live for both sides. I would never try to dictate how someone should live or how they should be educated or what they decide is best for their children. It's not my nor anybodys place to do that.
 
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