Fading sunspots....

It's been scientifically proven there are holes in the ozone layer because of pollution and this is what's increasing the sun's temperature. There is scientific evidence that glacier ice caps are melting because of the increasing temperatures. Only 3% of the water on this planet is drinkable - the other 97% is all saltwater that cannot be used for either drinking or for agriculture. As the glacier caps continue melting, the fresh water supply will be lowered. It's also been scientifically proven that in countries such as China, the many many coal-powered plants are having an effect on the glacier ice cap in Nepal that provides most of the fresh water supply to all of SE Asia.

So, there is no conspiracy here. It's proven facts. China is already out-sourcing a lot of their food from other countries because their exploding population is outgrowing their ability to grow enough food to feed them. India is now also facing similar problems of being able to grow enough food to feed their populations.

If we don't take serious measures to protect our glacier ice caps that provide most of the fresh water supply, then in 20 years, we will be facing a crisis in being able to grow enough crops to feed the world's populations.

If populations around the world keep growing and growing while the fresh water supply becomes more and more reduced, it's inevitable that we WILL be facing serious problems in 20 years from now as we compete for our share of food.
 
kokonut said:
In other words, you believe that rising CO2 concentration (currently around 390 ppm) in the atmosphere is the primary cause of global warming due to humans?
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More Strawman antics! He swings! He misses! What in God's name will he do next???
 
Beowulf said:
Wouldn't that be something? It is a question of when, not if. No point in worrying about it, though.
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So that flare won't ruin electronics, like I'll have to buy a new GPS to get home again? Don't know much about this, and curious.
 
flip said:
So that flare won't ruin electronics, like I'll have to buy a new GPS to get home again? Don't know much about this, and curious.
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Meh. Maybe you can use vacuum tubes for them? They are not affected.
 
DeafCaroline said:
It's been scientifically proven there are holes in the ozone layer because of pollution and this is what's increasing the sun's temperature. There is scientific evidence that glacier ice caps are melting because of the increasing temperatures. Only 3% of the water on this planet is drinkable - the other 97% is all saltwater that cannot be used for either drinking or for agriculture. As the glacier caps continue melting, the fresh water supply will be lowered. It's also been scientifically proven that in countries such as China, the many many coal-powered plants are having an effect on the glacier ice cap in Nepal that provides most of the fresh water supply to all of SE Asia.

So, there is no conspiracy here. It's proven facts. China is already out-sourcing a lot of their food from other countries because their exploding population is outgrowing their ability to grow enough food to feed them. India is now also facing similar problems of being able to grow enough food to feed their populations.

If we don't take serious measures to protect our glacier ice caps that provide most of the fresh water supply, then in 20 years, we will be facing a crisis in being able to grow enough crops to feed the world's populations.

If populations around the world keep growing and growing while the fresh water supply becomes more and more reduced, it's inevitable that we WILL be facing serious problems in 20 years from now as we compete for our share of food.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's something to worry about. I don't see much action to lessen this problem either.
 
kokonut said:
In other words, you believe that rising CO2 concentration (currently around 390 ppm) in the atmosphere is the primary cause of global warming due to humans?
Click to expand...

In other words, you're trying to put words into my mouth. You're incompetent at tricking people into backing themselves into a corner, let someone more experienced than you do it. You come on too strong, let the other person know your intentions... it just isn't going to work. I'm sorry. It's not me, it's you.

I... I'm sorry. I just don't love you anymore.

DeafCaroline said:
It's been scientifically proven there are holes in the ozone layer because of pollution and this is what's increasing the sun's temperature.
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One issue with this - I'm pretty sure humans aren't actually increasing the temperature of the sun itself. We might be increasing the effect it has on Earth's average global temperature, though.

deafskeptic said:
Who's going to burn the strawmen? :hmm:
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I will! Burn! :twisted: :devil:
 
StSapphire said:
One issue with this - I'm pretty sure humans aren't actually increasing the temperature of the sun itself. We might be increasing the effect it has on Earth's average global temperature, though.
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Increasing the temp of the sun sounds like a mad scientist project in any case. :D On the other hand, I don't think increasing the global temperature is a sane thing to do either.

I will! Burn! :twisted: :devil:
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I think you do a good job of torching strawmen. :D
 
StSapphire said:
One issue with this - I'm pretty sure humans aren't actually increasing the temperature of the sun itself. We might be increasing the effect it has on Earth's average global temperature, though.
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You're right, we are not actually increasing the sun's temperature itself, but the holes in the ozone layer is what's increasing the impact of the sun's temperature on earth.
 
deafskeptic said:
Increasing the temp of the sun sounds like a mad scientist project in any case. :D On the other hand, I don't think increasing the global temperature is a sane thing to do either.
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Hah, yeah, I read that and my first thought was "Holy shit, we can alter the sun's own temperature? That's awesome! Wait, shit, no, that'll kill us all, bad bad bad bad bad..."

deafskeptic said:
I think you do a good job of torching strawmen. :D
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Hah, thanks. :)
 
DeafCaroline said:
It's been scientifically proven there are holes in the ozone layer because of pollution and this is what's increasing the sun's temperature. There is scientific evidence that glacier ice caps are melting because of the increasing temperatures. Only 3% of the water on this planet is drinkable - the other 97% is all saltwater that cannot be used for either drinking or for agriculture. As the glacier caps continue melting, the fresh water supply will be lowered. It's also been scientifically proven that in countries such as China, the many many coal-powered plants are having an effect on the glacier ice cap in Nepal that provides most of the fresh water supply to all of SE Asia.

So, there is no conspiracy here. It's proven facts. China is already out-sourcing a lot of their food from other countries because their exploding population is outgrowing their ability to grow enough food to feed them. India is now also facing similar problems of being able to grow enough food to feed their populations.

If we don't take serious measures to protect our glacier ice caps that provide most of the fresh water supply, then in 20 years, we will be facing a crisis in being able to grow enough crops to feed the world's populations.

If populations around the world keep growing and growing while the fresh water supply becomes more and more reduced, it's inevitable that we WILL be facing serious problems in 20 years from now as we compete for our share of food.
Click to expand...

No holes...just a thinning "layer" in the ozone. Plus, there has been no solid proof that this is man-caused.

Earth can not in no way directly or indirectly cause the sun's own temperature to change. I don't think you meant to say "sun's temperature." You need to clarify when you say "pollution" because certain pollution emissions are known to have a cooling effect.

Glaciers have retreated and expanded for millions of years coinciding with changing climate condition w/o man's help. And in turn, you need to explain exactly how it is different today.

Not sure what the line of thought is about the 3% of water is drinkable or where you're going with that. The percentage 3% might sound small but convert that into cubic miles of water it get's rather hefty. Many of the arid regions around the world near the ocean use reverse-osmosis technology or desalination technology to turn salt water or brackish water into potable drinking water and even for agriculture use. In fact, I was one of the several people from different agencies to review (National Research Center for Desalination of Brackish Groundwater) about Alamogordo, New Mexico desalination pilot study to turn brackish water pumped out of the Tularosa Basin while I was living and working there. Also, if you didn't know, Saudi Arabia is famously known for their use of desalination plants (Shoaiba Desalination Plant - Water Technology ). So is Israel. Even for crops where desalinated water is used on. But that's only for in "water poor" areas or where freshwater is inaccessible but they are in the minority compared to the rest of the "water rich" countries. The United States have desalination plants, too.
http://www.wtcsd.org/Resources/WEMI...stry Segment Report - Desalinization 2011.pdf

We have plenty of water. The problem is over-use on consumption and waste.

Coal powered plants emit soot (or are you referring to sulfur? CO2? carbon?). On glaciers or snow soot can effect albedo. Sure. But black carbon (soot) is not the same as C02 which is a gas, soot is a particulate. Please don't confuse the two.

This glacier "crisis" is nothing but hogwash if you're attempting to frame it as an anthropogenic - caused event. There is a difference between the amount of fresh water on earth versus potable water since much of drinking water comes from groundwater in aquifers and surface water even though glaciers supply 69 percent of freshwater on Earth, much of the supply of water comes from the annual melting of fresh snow and rainfall distribution that replenishes the aquifers, lakes and rivers rather than from glaciers per se.
 
StSapphire said:
In other words, you're trying to put words into my mouth. You're incompetent at tricking people into backing themselves into a corner, let someone more experienced than you do it. You come on too strong, let the other person know your intentions... it just isn't going to work. I'm sorry. It's not me, it's you.

I... I'm sorry. I just don't love you anymore.

One issue with this - I'm pretty sure humans aren't actually increasing the temperature of the sun itself. We might be increasing the effect it has on Earth's average global temperature, though.

I will! Burn! :twisted: :devil:
Click to expand...

You've not clarified, hence why I asked a question. Is that not what you're saying? In short, exactly what do you believe to be the case?

Sure. Pretty obvious that Earth or humans ourselves cannot cause a change in the sun's temperature, indirectly or directly.

Ever hear of "heat islands"? We do have these regional "heat pollution" problems in the inner cities. And there were massive problems with the collection of long term land surface temperature data that were significant enough to skew average regional temperature across the U.S. simply because of the lack of protocols and standards weren't followed. And create temperature errors from 1 to as high as 5 degrees Celsius most of the errors at around at least 2 degrees.

We found stations located next to the exhaust fans of air conditioning units, surrounded by asphalt parking lots and roads, on blistering-hot rooftops, and near sidewalks and buildings that absorb and radiate heat. We found 68 stations located at wastewater treatment plants, where the process of waste digestion causes temperatures to be higher than in surrounding areas.

In fact, we found that 89 percent of the stations – nearly 9 of every 10 – fail to meet the National Weather Service’s own siting requirements that stations must be 30 meters (about 100 feet) or more away from an artificial heating or radiating/ reflecting heat source.

In other words, 9 of every 10 stations are likely reporting higher or rising temperatures because they are badly sited.

It gets worse. We observed that changes in the technology of temperature stations over time also has caused them to report a false warming trend. We found major gaps in the data record that were filled in with data from nearby sites, a practice that propagates and compounds errors. We found that adjustments to the data by both NOAA and another government agency, NASA, cause recent temperatures to look even higher.

The conclusion is inescapable: The U.S. temperature record is unreliable.
Click to expand...

No kidding?

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/surfacestationsreport_spring09.pdf
 
kokonut said:
You've not clarified, hence why I asked a question. Is that not what you're saying? In short, exactly what do you believe to be the case?

Sure. Pretty obvious that Earth or humans ourselves cannot cause a change in the sun's temperature, indirectly or directly.

Ever hear of "heat islands"? We do have these regional "heat pollution" problems in the inner cities. And there were massive problems with the collection of long term land surface temperature data that were significant enough to skew average regional temperature across the U.S. simply because of the lack of protocols and standards weren't followed. And create temperature errors from 1 to as high as 5 degrees Celsius most of the errors at around at least 2 degrees.



No kidding?

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/surfacestationsreport_spring09.pdf
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So, you finally admit that global warming is man-made in part?
 
Primary cause of global warming is increased CO2 (aka greenhouse gases) in the air which came from the burning of fossil fuels, i.e. coal-powered plants as one example.

So, yeah, caused by humans.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Primary cause of global warming is increased CO2 (aka greenhouse gases) in the air which came from the burning of fossil fuels, i.e. coal-powered plants as one example.

So, yeah, caused by humans.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm no expert in the subject but I have eyes. I know that China's pollution already crosses over our west coast, and I can't help but think it is bound to have an effect on the world's weather patterns. Sure, solar flares cause the usual changes, but I think human activity pushed the temperature just high enough to cause disaster. That is just my opinion, though, and subject to change at a moment's notice. :lol:
 
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