excerpts of President Obama's address to Congress tonight

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shel90 said:
That reasoning doesnt make sense to me at all. Not at all...
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It wasn't supposed to. It was a play on the absurdity of some of the arguments against health care reform that we are seeing.
 
netrox said:
Shouting, "Liar" is cool? How nice you have lowered yourself to his level.

And please give me a citation of the bill that covers illegal immigrants or pay for abortion. Thank you.
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No citation will be forthcoming. It doesn't exist.
 
jillio said:
It wasn't supposed to. It was a play on the absurdity of some of the arguments against health care reform that we are seeing.
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I wasnt talking about you..was talking about those who may refuse health care but complain about high medical bills.
 
jillio said:
So, since you are not one of those people, you cannot empathize with the millions that are? And we are talking fundamental human rights, not political rights such as freedom of speech. I guess as long as the uninsured can voice concerns over lack of access to health care, they've got it made.
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I meant I'm not one of those people who doesn't want every American to have health care. Once again, there's no need to argue on the realm of morality since we both agree with the goal. It then comes down to the best way to achieve it.
 
darkdog said:
I meant I'm not one of those people who doesn't want every American to have health care. Once again, there's no need to argue on the realm of morality since we both agree with the goal. It then comes down to the best way to achieve it.
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I agree. But by issuing fines to those who don't carry insurance or force them into a single payer plan isn't about choice. Give people a reason to support this bill. So far, it hasn't given me or the millions of people any reason to support this bill at all.

It's time we start over again with everybody participating.
 
shel90 said:
I wasnt talking about you..was talking about those who may refuse health care but complain about high medical bills.
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Worse, I read that about 60% of bankruptcies happen because of medical bills.
 
that's because there is NO coverage on abortion and if Obama said that illegals won't be covered then I believe him. Why would he, being a president, risk lying to the public and possibly face censor?
 
darkdog said:
I meant I'm not one of those people who doesn't want every American to have health care. Once again, there's no need to argue on the realm of morality since we both agree with the goal. It then comes down to the best way to achieve it.
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If health care is a moral right but not a political right, then who should enforce moral rights? Not the government, correct?
:hmm:
 
Ah, but see here. Does the bill prohibits discrimination and the withholding of health care services based on any personal information including a person's "legal status"?

Yes.

Where does the bill explicitly prohibits compensations for illegal alien coverage by other means than by direct affordability compensation payments to other than individuals?


Does the Bill make any provisions on how to ascertain if a person is a legal residents or illegal aliens?

No.

And thus this bill in regards to illegal aliens will be provided health care pretty much under a "dont ask, dont tell" type of policy.


On pg 50, SEC. 152. "PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE" says nothing about illegal aliens. NADA. Problem is if you cannot discriminate against a person for health care then how can you figure out if the person you're helping isn't an illegal alien?

21 SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.
22 (a) IN GENERAL.—Except as otherwise explicitly per
23 mitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations con
24 sistent with this Act, all health care and related services
25 (including insurance coverage and public health activities)

1 covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to
2 personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of
3 high quality health care or related services.
4 (b) IMPLEMENTATION.—To implement the require
5 ment set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health
6 and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after
7 the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such
8 regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that
9 all health care and related services (including insurance
10 coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act
11 are provided (whether directly or through contractual,
12 licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to per
13 sonal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high
14 quality health care or related services.

In this case, a person's legal status has nothing to do with "the provision of high quality health care or related services" like they have been getting so far. Nothing in this bill has any way of stopping that service or provide the means or even permission to ensure who they are treating are not illegal aliens but citizens or people who are here legally.
 
Reba said:
If health care is a moral right but not a political right, then who should enforce moral rights? Not the government, correct?
:hmm:
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There's a continuum of what's considered legal and morally legal to immorally legal.
 
netrox said:
There's a continuum of what's considered legal and morally legal to immorally legal.
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So it's OK for the government to enforce morality? :hmm:
 
Righto, DD.

Then there is this difference between "lawfully" and "illegally." I do not see anything remotely close that says "no health care will be provided for illegals." Doing so would be the most direct and straightforward action taken against illegal aliens. Of course, liberals would avoid say anything like that. It's like the plague to them.
 
Notice the comments:

"Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 40 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution."

"Illegal aliens already get get FREE healthcare. Imagine that. You are in this country ILLEGALLY and you get FREE health care, free schooling, public housing (obama's aunt and others), food stamps and a host of other things...all from being in this country ILLEGALLY."

"Latino children need health care more then whites.... "

Incessant whining. :)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ THE SEC 246

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED
4 ALIENS.
5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.
 
kokonut said:
Righto, DD.

Then there is this difference between "lawfully" and "illegally." I do not see anything remotely close that says "no health care will be provided illegals." Doing so would be the most direct and straightforward action taken against illegal aliens. Of course, liberals would avoid say anything like that. It's like the plague to them.
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For whom is this coverage? American citizens? Citizens plus legal residents? Legal foreign tourists? Anyone passing thru?

If participation will be mandatory, and those who don't sign up will be fined, then how does coverage include those who neither sign up nor pay a fine because they are in the country legally but temporarily, or illegally?
 
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