Double Standards? Oralism And Asl?

oh!!

Eve said:
Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me. You would argue with a brick wall (despite the fact that you have no personal experience for which to base your comments on) anyway.
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Have you been agruing with a brick wall lately? and Where is your personal experience, Eve??

Deaflinuxgeek
 
Is it hard work? Sure. Does it work for everyone? No. But there are those of us who do benefit greatly from speech therapy.
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Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)
 
deafdyke said:
Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)
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True, but Eve, it's obvious that you've NEVER experianced speech therapy as a dhh kid. The mechanics of speech therapy are just TOO fucking hard for us to master.
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"just TOO fucking hard for us to master" sounds pretty anti-speech-therapy to me.
 
deaflinuxgeek said:
Have you been agruing with a brick wall lately?
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Two actually (you and your fiancé)

deaflinuxgeek said:
and Where is your personal experience, Eve??
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My personal experience is in that I am hearing impaired. My personal experience is in going through the entire qualifying process with my husband who was only recently approved for a CI.

deafdyke said:
Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)
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My husband is profoundly deaf and went through speech therapy his entire childhood. He has impeccable speech and lip reading skills now and is glad his mother saw fit to have him orally trained. I am not saying it is for everyone, but he is obviously a success story.
 
My personal experience is in that I am hearing impaired. My personal experience is in going through the entire qualifying process with my husband who was only recently approved for a CI.
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How s that so since you are latened deaf? Being late-deafened isn't a bad thing necessarily--but some of them think they know everything about being deaf.
 
I know enough....and I know more about MY situation than you do. I also am intelligent enough to know that this isnt a one-size-fits-all world.
 
Why is the common belief that the only way to talk to hearing people is by jaw-flapping? What's wrong with writing it down? Or hearing people who are signers?
 
Writing it down is not always appropriate (time consuming, low lighting, etc) and hearing signers are not always available. Why be so limited in your options?
 
just TOO fucking hard for us to master" sounds pretty anti-speech-therapy to me.
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I said the MECHANICS of speech therapy. By, THAT I mean things like modualtion, pitch, volumne, articualtion, enuncition, learning how to pronounce sounds we can't hear (like I STILL have to remember to pronounce sounds like th) Many of us can have pretty decent skills in those areas, but we'll NEVER be as good as a hearing person! So much of speech therapy (post language aqqustion) is so My Fair Lady "The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On the Plain-"ish
He has impeccable speech and lip reading skills now and is glad his mother saw fit to have him orally trained. I am not saying it is for everyone, but he is obviously a success story.
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I consider myself to be a sucess story as well.....that said I'm just wondering why my aquastion of speech skills had to be so damn AUDIST. Why can't speech and Sign be learned in tandem?
 
gnulinuxman said:
Why is the common belief that the only way to talk to hearing people is by jaw-flapping? What's wrong with writing it down? Or hearing people who are signers?
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Because the majority of hearing consistently communicate by talking and any other mode of communication is cumbersome like writing (very slow compared to speech...heck how long does it take us writing emails back and forth compared to speech?!?). ASL is not commonly known to hearing people and are very unlikely to learn it unless they have to. When the majority of the world is 98% or more hearing, there isn't any great urgency or motivation for them to learn ASL. I hate to say this but they don't have to bother and most have probably never met a deaf person.
 
Why can't speech and Sign be learned in tandem?
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While I am an advocate of TC, most oralists believe that if a child picks up ASL, they will use it as a crutch and ditch speech as it is much more difficult and time consuming.
 
I can believe that. Speech therapy was not easy task for me. I had to take it until I was in Jr high. It wasn't until I was in late high school that I had my speech to the point that it fooled people in thinking I was hearing.
 
sr171soars said:
Because the majority of hearing consistently communicate by talking and any other mode of communication is cumbersome like writing (very slow compared to speech...heck how long does it take us writing emails back and forth compared to speech?!?). ASL is not commonly known to hearing people and are very unlikely to learn it unless they have to. When the majority of the world is 98% or more hearing, there isn't any great urgency or motivation for them to learn ASL. I hate to say this but they don't have to bother and most have probably never met a deaf person.
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1. I have some friends who do prefer reading and writing to speaking and lipreading.
2. I learned ASL not because I "had" to (my fiancee was perfectly willing to let me get away with not learning it) but beccause I WANTED to, and most of my all-hearing family wants to learn too.
 
most oralists believe that if a child picks up ASL, they will use it as a crutch and ditch speech as it is much more difficult and time consuming.
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Yes, but that is a MYTH!!!!!!!!!! Like TCers would see Sign as being used to clarify a word, whereas oralists would see it as a crutch. No matter that perhaps the TCer could articualte themselves(in Sign) at a Harvard level....the kid with oral skills is ALWAYS on top! No matter that there's no significent difference in verbal IQ (oral deaf kids STILL have pretty low verbal IQs compared to the hearing population!)
 
gnulinuxman said:
1. I have some friends who do prefer reading and writing to speaking and lipreading.
2. I learned ASL not because I "had" to (my fiancee was perfectly willing to let me get away with not learning it) but beccause I WANTED to, and most of my all-hearing family wants to learn too.
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I hear you but listen...

Most people don't prefer reading and writing to speaking. For a hearing person speaking is the fastest way to communicate pure and simple. It doesn't even have to be complete sentences either. The voice contains inflections that can be used as well.

Most people don't want or need to learn ASL.

You can't base your arguments on what some do but what the majority does. Whether that is fair or not, it is totally irrelevant.
 
I am sorry to say this Total Communication failed because it does not work that way. That's fact!
 
sr171soars said:
I hear you but listen...

Most people don't prefer reading and writing to speaking. For a hearing person speaking is the fastest way to communicate pure and simple. It doesn't even have to be complete sentences either. The voice contains inflections that can be used as well.
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Interesting to think about, but I actually prefer written communication to oral communication, even though I'm hearing. I'm just visual I guess. ;)

sr171soars said:
Most people don't want or need to learn ASL.
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Almost all my family wants to learn. All my hearing friends would like to if we (my fiancee and I) get time to teach them.

sr171soars said:
You can't base your arguments on what some do but what the majority does. Whether that is fair or not, it is totally irrelevant.
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http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Argumentum ad numerum
 
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