Do Jews believe in Jesus and still be Jewish?

[Teresh]

I have to say Teresh contradicts herself then attempts to say something different but if you watch the mintune details of what Teresh has been saying all along.

Then you obviously haven't been reading my posts thoroughly. I have not contradicted myself even once. My argument yet remains the same simple logic it was in my first post on the subject.

I have lost my respect for Teresh. She just does not get it.

"Get it"? Funny, but I might be inclined to say the same about you.

Jesus Christ was Jewish so were his 12 disciples Jewish and Jesus Christ witnessed to large crowds of Jewish people.

Millions of people have been Jewish. What's your point?

My God how more blind can you get than that?

To see that the Jesus story is a great stretch at best with no basis in Hebrew scripture? T

Teresh, I am thinking you are a muslim sympathizer.

"Muslim sympathizer"? Define the term. If you mean that I support Islam, no I don't, but I don't "support" any religion. I believe in freedom of religion, something most of the people who want me to be a Christian (so badly, I might add) don't believe in. It's up to the invidual what he or she wants to believe in.

She is just usin' her " intelligence " to challenge anyone over issues to see who wins debate. It's just all her game.

I am not ashamed of the fact that I have a better understanding of Judaism as a religion than most of the people on this forum. If anything, I regard it as a gift. I regard it as a positive position to be in, that is, to understand Judaism for what it is rather than seeing it through the biased lenses that Christians wear when looking at the Jews.

It is not my "intelligence" that is the reason you cannot argue with me on this subject, it is the knowledge I possess. That knowledge is accessable to myself and anyone else (yes, even you) who is interested in learning of it. If you wish to learn of it, you're welcome to do so. If not, that's fine too, but do not claim to understand it or know what it is or what it means.

 

[Teresh]

I agree Cyberred and if Teresh really is a member of the jewish organization of Hillel then I can't help but have to wonder how Hillel will think of Teresh after reading all these posts and what her conclusions have come to.

They know what my opinions are already. As of yet, they haven't seen a problem with them as I don't force my opinions on other people.

You don't know what I personally believe in or what my opinions are because I'm simply playing your game of meaningless and hateful proselytizing. I have no interest in winning you over to my way of living. I did not start this debate nor do I ever start such.

Christians start arguments like this, claiming that Judaism led to Christianity and that Judaism is therefore no longer relevant. You may want me to sit and take it, but that is because you want me to be a Christian. You irrationally think that I must "hate you" or be angry at you because I don't repond kindly.

I am not expected or required to sit and take it. I have every right to refute the arguments you put forth if I am able to do so. Thus far, no one on this forum has been able to put forward an opinion I can't counter on this subject and the reason for that is that they are simply ill-informed.

If you put forth misinformation about the Jews, I will refute it. You're a victim of your own ignorance, not of the aggression or anger you perceive me to have. If you do not wish to debate it with me, do not spread misinformation. That is all I ask.

let alone the facts and Teresh does not think very rationally like the rest of us do.

Funny, but I'm not the one whose religion is based on a fanciful mythological story...

 

[JohnnyE]

Teresh, you say you are not a jew then how can you say you understand judaism. Have you lived your whole life as a jew? You forget jews read very heavy on the Torah. The real jews will just roll their eyes around whenever they see you from now on, because of the things you have said here. I do not understand why you continue to defend islam and then turn around and say you are enamoured with judaism then turn around and say you are a roman catholic but then you say different things that has left us wondering who and what are you really? You even seem very afraid to embrace messianic judaism because you really can't get any more jewish than that. I am surprised you do not know that Messianic jews are fierecely Pro-Zionist and that is something you will not recongize on its own facts even when confronted with the messianic prophecies. I have been reading about the messianic prophecies and they do make logical sense. Teresh, How can you not see that?

 

[Teresh]

Teresh, you say you are not a jew then how can you say you understand judaism.

I read Jewish books. I'm somewhat active in the Jewish community on campus. I learn about Judaism from a legitimate source (Jews) rather than the heresay of Christians.

Have you lived your whole life as a jew?

No.

You forget jews read very heavy on the Torah.

I haven't forgotten this. You've simply ignored the way it's used in my writing. You also neglect to acknowledge that the Jews have a different view of the Torah than Christians do.

I do not understand why you continue to defend islam and then turn around and say you are enamoured with judaism then turn around and say you are a roman catholic but then you say different things that has left us wondering who and what are you really?

I was baptised Roman Catholic. That is something that, like it or not, I cannot erase. I was raised in Catholicism and went to Catholic schools for 12 years. I do not agree with the religion, but I've come to an understanding of its tenets.

Judaism I understand to a degree because of my involvement and my reading.

Islam I have more knowledge of than the average Christian, though I'd like to learn more about it at some point in the future.

You even seem very afraid to embrace messianic judaism because you really can't get any more jewish than that.

Messianic Judaism isn't Judaism at all. It's adherents (some of them, anyway) are Jews, but it is not a Jewish religion.

I am surprised you do not know that Messianic jews are fierecely Pro-Zionist and that is something you will not recongize on its own facts even when confronted with the messianic prophecies.

Oh, I recognize that they're generally Zionists, but I also recognize that they proselytize and try to convert other Jews in deceptive and wicked ways. They may be Zionists, but they are also Anti-Judaism. One's opinion on the State of Israel and its legitimacy or lack thereof does not redeem anyone of their actions, good or wicked.

I have been reading about the messianic prophecies and they do make logical sense. Teresh, How can you not see that?

Apparently you haven't. You must've missed the ones where all of the Tribes of Israel would be rejoined into one people, they would live in the Land of Israel, the Temple would be rebuilt, and world peace would be a reality.

 

[JohnnyE]

Teresh, I do not hate you in fact it would be very un-christian for me to do so. You are the one with all the hate and anger here, intellectual anger I may add also how can you defend islam and still keep your hands clean and not have any dirty hands when you defend judaism? You are no defender of judaism when you are defending islam. Even the jewish people reading this will see right through you. It is too obivous, even a Christian from another group can point this all out to you even though the majority of christians do not agree with his personal beliefs and it seems to me, his way of life but he showed this all to you. I am shocked to be reading what you are saying here. It would shock anybody reading this thread to see the complete turn you have taken and Tereh, you really need to stop with your intellecutal hostile anger and take a few mintunes to really read your own words then maybe a light will be pulled on bright.

 

[Teresh]

I may add also how can you defend islam and still keep your hands clean and not have any dirty hands when you defend judaism? You are no defender of judaism when you are defending islam.

Judaism and Islam are not inherently contradictory on theological issues. The concept of God in Islam is the same as the concept of God in Judaism. I can sanely defend both as the two are not implicitly different.

You might be interested in knowing that Hillel (at RIT) has asked the Muslim Student Association on more than one occassion to do joint events.

I am shocked to be reading what you are saying here. It would shock anybody reading this thread to see the complete turn you have taken and Tereh, you really need to stop with your intellecutal hostile anger and take a few mintunes to really read your own words then maybe a light will be pulled on bright.

I do read every word I write. There is no hatred or anger in my words, in spite of what you may want to believe. I simply disagree with you, but you construe that disagreement to be anger or to be hatred. Your interpretation is erroneous, but that's the point you're not getting here.

 

[JohnnyE]

I read Jewish books. I'm somewhat active in the Jewish community on campus. I learn about Judaism from a legitimate source (Jews) rather than the heresay of Christians.

If you really were that active in the jewish community. There would be no way you would support or defend islam.

No.

Then why are you acting like a jew when you clearly are not one.

I haven't forgotten this. You've simply ignored the way it's used in my writing. You also neglect to acknowledge that the Jews have a different view of the Torah than Christians do.

I did not forget that and I know christians and jews have a different point of view on many things.

I was baptised Roman Catholic. That is something that, like it or not, I cannot erase. I was raised in Catholicism and went to Catholic schools for 12 years. I do not agree with the religion, but I've come to an understanding of its tenets.

which is why you were led to judaism ? Then the next logical step would be to be in a messianic synangoue.

Judaism I understand to a degree because of my involvement and my reading.

Islam I have more knowledge of than the average Christian, though I'd like to learn more about it at some point in the future.

Then I am really concerned for you and the simple fact that you have denied islam is a violent religion and the quran in its own right shows that it is indeed a very violent book.

Messianic Judaism isn't Judaism at all. It's adherents (some of them, anyway) are Jews, but it is not a Jewish religion.

Again, here is where you are blind. Jesus Christ was a jew and he spoke to large crowds of jews both male and female.

Oh, I recognize that they're generally Zionists, but I also recognize that they proselytize and try to convert other Jews in deceptive and wicked ways. They may be Zionists, but they are also Anti-Judaism. One's opinion on the State of Israel and its legitimacy or lack thereof does not redeem anyone of their actions, good or wicked.

Messianic judaism has no need to try and convert another jews in deceptive and wicked ways. Have you watched the Zola Levitt t.v. show ? It is closed captioned much to my surprise and I have been watching his t.v. show. He passed away recently and now somebody is going to continue with the Zola Levitt t.v. show so you may want to grab a chair and watch for yourself.

Apparently you haven't. You must've missed the ones where all of the Tribes of Israel would be rejoined into one people, they would live in the Land of Israel, the Temple would be rebuilt, and world peace would be a reality.

I think you need to read about Revealations especially about New Jerusalem then you would understand more clearly. I do not think you have taken the time to read the Revealtions.

 

[JohnnyE]

I think I am done here. Cyberred you were right.

 

[Teresh]

If you really were that active in the jewish community. There would be no way you would support or defend islam.

No, it is precisely because I am active in the Jewish community that I do defend Islam... I doubt you'll ever grasp that subject, though, because you have a profound failing at understanding Judaism and are not sufficiently versed in Islam's beliefs.

Then why are you acting like a jew when you clearly are not one.

I'm defending a point of view, not "acting like a jew". Unless, of course, "acting like a jew" means defending a point of view that is different from Christianity, in which case I am guilty as charged.

That said, being born a Jew isn't the only way to become one. If one converts, he or she is just as much of a Jew as the one who has been since birth.

which is why you were led to judaism ? Then the next logical step would be to be in a messianic synangoue.

No, because a "Messianic Judaism" is Christianity, not Judaism. If I wanted to be Christian, I would go to a Christian Church (or a Messianic congregation). I don't have any interest in that, so I would not even consider it.

Again, here is where you are blind. Jesus Christ was a jew and he spoke to large crowds of jews both male and female.

It's not Jesus's teachings that I have a problem with, it's Christian theology.

Just because a Jew starts a religion does not mean that the religion is Jewish. A different theology or philosophy of Judaism? Sure, that's Jewish. A complete rejection of the Jewish people, Jewish history, tradition, theology, culture and law? No, that's not Jewish.

I think you need to read about Revealations especially about New Jerusalem then you would understand more clearly. I do not think you have taken the time to read the Revealtions.

I do not think you have taken the time to read the Tanakh as you ignore the Messianic prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill (and indeed there are many of them).

 

[Maria]

I think I am done here. Cyberred you were right.

*noddin'* I know. You are not the only one to feel that way. There were others who felt the same way as you do.

 

[ismi]

*noddin'* I know. You are not the only one to feel that way. There were others who felt the same way as you do.

I've heard that before ... seems like it never happens.

 

[Maria]

I've heard that before ... seems like it never happens.

Well, I don't speak for them in debatin'.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well as I read of all of this, some does not make a person to be a christian, but point what we believe. And some chrsitians try to pressure some to make them believe, but it isn't God's way. Tho as Teresh said where she was raise in Roman Catholic, well, there's so much I don't agree in R C. Now, yes, she believes what she believes. But yes, as we know, she lack the realm of God. Which we see are not contradictory. And even, not understand what really is a Messiah and who He is. Like she said, not fullfilled, bec not yet rebuild Temple and reigning, bec thought like what we see Jesus, which many believes Messiah will be rebuild Temple as of first time on earth, which OT did not say that. There a lot of fact which fullfilled while Messiah was here on earth. But overlooked the purpose of His reigning and rebuilding Temple as of time frame between His birth and His reigning. Teresh sees different, even tho, yes, she has bad insult by using christians as disgusting, mythology and other bad naming. But one thing she didn't say about thing about Jesus Himself, but overlooked who He really is even she didn't think so, just like Isaiah described people overlooked who He really is. Even, jews saw all the fact, but not all accepting Him. Like many said, by believing is by seeing, which is not true. Inspite what they see, it will not change them. Why? Holding the pride and arrogance, bec of holding their knowledge to save their name without admit of their wrongs. Some believe christian preempt the law as thinking that's what Jesus is doing, but He didn't, He fullfilled it. All the law summed up, in 2. Love your Lord your God, and love your neighbors (include enemies) as youself. True joy is this as in order which is this : Jesus, Others, Yourself. Joy isn't a feeling, its more than that. Notice, Jesus, Others, Yourself spelled JOY. Inspite, love and forgiveness goes hand in hand.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Yeah true, smile

 

[FreedummyRing]

I think Jewish people do believe in Jesus, they just don't make it a big deal.
I read Reba's post about in Acts, Disciples called themselves Christians...
And Muslims followed Muhummad...
Who was Muhammad??? Was he like Jesus? Muhammad must be
the new messiah, why we don't follow Muhammad, the same
way we followed Jesus?
I guess Jewish people just fall behind to follow anyone.
Is Muslim's bible the newest and latest Bible?

 

[christlovedeaf]

I think Jewish people do believe in Jesus, they just don't make it a big deal.
I read Reba's post about in Acts, Disciples called themselves Christians...
And Muslims followed Muhummad...
Who was Muhammad??? Was he like Jesus? Muhammad must be
the new messiah, why we don't follow Muhammad, the same
way we followed Jesus?
I guess Jewish people just fall behind to follow anyone.
Is Muslim's bible the newest and latest Bible?

No, mohammed decieved many and not one bit matched what the prophets described as its match Christ. As of jewish, there are surmountable of them fear muslims. Like q'ran is written by himself and pervert the view of God

 

[pek1]

You are not the only one who noticed her contradiction. I noticed it, too and I am not interested in debatin' with her. To me, that's like she is playin' " cat and mouse " game with everyone who disagree with her. She is just usin' her " intelligence " to challenge anyone over issues to see who wins debate. It's just all her game.

I concur, CyberRed. There are magazines that have proven time after time the validity of Jesus Christ and everything else in the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament. She doesn't sway me, because I believe the Author, not to mention I not only have a personal relationship with Him, but I am on first name basis with Him.

Furthermore, I'm never finished with a debate. I don't quit that easily, nor am I intimidated (oh, please) :roll: God doesn't need me to defend Him, He can do that by Himself, which He has done countless times.

 

[Maria]

I concur, CyberRed. There are magazines that have proven time after time the validity of Jesus Christ and everything else in the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament. She doesn't sway me, because I believe the Author, not to mention I not only have a personal relationship with Him, but I am on first name basis with Him.

Furthermore, I'm never finished with a debate. I don't quit that easily, nor am I intimidated (oh, please) :roll: God doesn't need me to defend Him, He can do that by Himself, which He has done countless times.

Oh, yes I believe the Author, too. His Name is Jesus Christ who sent the " Comforter/Helper " to inspired His Words to gospel others for their spiritual growth and bring people closer to God. Once, they are closer to God... they will be able to see His Light as crystal. His Word is Light for them to read - meanin' in the bible. His Word in the bible is the Light. God's Word is people's lamp to read as it guides them the way to Christ. That's where and how they could FIND Him.

Speakin' of your never finished with a debate -- I would love to read your posts in debatin'. I love to read Reba's, too. She is wonderful at explainin'/showin'/sharin' things.

 

[Teresh]

I think Jewish people do believe in Jesus, they just don't make it a big deal.

Do Jews in general believe Jesus existed at one point, that is, lived and died? Sure.
Do Jews in general believe that Jesus is/was God? No, as that's idolatry.

Muhammad must be
the new messiah, why we don't follow Muhammad, the same
way we followed Jesus?

Mohammed wasn't the Messiah... Even in Islam, he is not regarded as such. He is regarded in Islam as Prophet (the last Prophet) who received the Qur'an, which is the law of God, and gave it to the people.

I guess Jewish people just fall behind to follow anyone.

They follow God and God's law. It's pretty simple, really.

Is Muslim's bible the newest and latest Bible?

The Qur'an is not a translation of older texts, it's a new book.

 

[FreedummyRing]

It said in Luke and Matthew.... that Joseph is Jesus' birth father...

In Matthew, 1:16 in Holy Bible, Jacob fathered Joseph, the husband
of Mary who gave birth to Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Luke, 3:24, The Genealogy of Jesus Christ, son of Joseph.

Jesus was not a God and he was the Messiah.