Dislike my cochlear device after 3 years using it...??

[AlleyCat]

Perhaps, you're now trying to convince yourself otherwise?


Perhaps, you're now trying to catch up with your Deaf peers?


And are you currently always 100% happy with your Deaf existence?

Let's face it no one is really 100% happy all the time in any environment.

You make a lot of incorrect assumptions. PERHAPS you should stick with what you know.

 

[GrendelQ]

I was not the one who mentioned they aren't happy nor do I say that I am miserable. I said that we are faced with difficulties that are not necessary. How would you know those difficulties are there or not?

I wasn't referring to you in my post, either as someone who is a success story or not. You mention it frequently, but you usually put the term in quotes and seem to be using it ironically. But if you indicate that you are happy and satisfied with your opportunities (or that deafness is not a limiting factor in your life), then Yes! I'd think you were the success story you often say you are considered. But just as I believe you when you discuss your own situaton, I also believe what I read or hear from other deaf people, when they describe their own situations. And I don't know other than what I see here, but I think PFH comes across as pretty much of a success story, as do Daredevel, Sheila, Jiro, Jillio's child, Rick's child, OverthePond, and so many others. Many different paths and approaches to deafness and language represented.

Some of these people, and many others have said they were happy with their approaches to language and learning. You could argue, as Shel did, that they may be in denial and will change that opinion someday. True. But that argument could also apply to you, perhaps in 10, 20 years you'll feel quite differently about the things you have such strong opinions about today, just as you've both changed your perspectives radically before.

 

[BecLak]

I wasn't referring to you in my post, either as someone who is a success story or not. You mention it frequently, but you usually put the term in quotes and seem to be using it ironically. But if you indicate that you are happy and satisfied with your opportunities (or that deafness is not a limiting factor in your life), then Yes! I'd think you were the success story you often say you are considered. But just as I believe you when you discuss your own situaton, I also believe what I read or hear from other deaf people, when they describe their own situations. And I don't know other than what I see here, but I think PFH comes across as pretty much of a success story, as do Daredevel, Sheila, Jiro, Jillio's child, Rick's child, OverthePond, and so many others. Many different paths and approaches to deafness and language represented.

Some of these people, and many others have said they were happy with their approaches to language and learning. You could argue, as Shel did, that they may be in denial and will change that opinion someday. True. But that argument could also apply to you, perhaps in 10, 20 years you'll feel quite differently about the things you have such strong opinions about today, just as you've both changed your perspectives radically before.

It seems as if you only read what you want to read. Yes, there are a lot of success stories, mine included, but it is by our own efforts and determination not by methods that have been enforced by audist professionals which are generally presented to concerned, naive parents of deaf children as the only way to go for their children to lead fulfilled lives. Deaf children/people do not need to speak to have happy fulfilled lives and it should never be forced on them as a necessity.

 

[GrendelQ]

It seems as if you only read what you want to read. Yes, there are a lot of success stories, mine included, but it is by our own efforts and determination not by methods that have been enforced by audist professionals which are generally presented to concerned, naive parents of deaf children as the only way to go for their children to lead fulfilled lives. Deaf children/people do not need to speak to have happy fulfilled lives and it should never be forced on them as a necessity.

Really? You think that's what I said there, hmm? I talked about the success of a whole range of paths taken, refer to successful people, some who don't utter a word, have never had a speech lesson, don't wear aids as successes and what you take away is DEAF CHILDREN MUST SPEAK OR THEY ARE UTTER FAILURES. Really interesting comprehension skills you have.

 

[deafdyke]

know quite a few deaf people who are very happy with their upbringing and education, who are doing what they want to do and don't feel limitations imposed upon them. I consider them to be success stories, not those who may have pretty speech but who are miserable and feel terrible regret and bitterness.

On the other hand,
a lot of times those oral deaf people are the very same people who rave about being a part of the hearing world, are the very same people who complain they don't fit into the hearing world, or who have very few close friends or who buy into the AG Bell (the organization) rheotirc that oral only and mainstreaming is the best thing in the world, and they would have gotten a crappy education if they'd been exposed to *teh HORROR* Sign and Deaf culture!

 

[BecLak]

Really? You think that's what I said there, hmm? I talked about the success of a whole range of paths taken, refer to successful people, some who don't utter a word, have never had a speech lesson, don't wear aids as successes and what you take away is DEAF CHILDREN MUST SPEAK OR THEY ARE UTTER FAILURES. Really interesting comprehension skills you have.

The emphasis in the thread has been the use of assistive hearing apparatus and of late, the need or not of speech therapy or the effectiveness, or ineffectiveness of these methods. FJ is always saying that to master the entire English language you need to speak. I am saying to the contrary. I comprehend very well Grendel. BTW, I am not one to change my perspective radically. I hold true to my beliefs thank you very much. As for my deafness, my parents and I were lied to which affected my whole life, and because they were professionals, we were inclined to follow what they told us. Now, that we know otherwise. I have not waivered in what I stand for.

The capitalised section: You wrote that not me. It is not my quote.

 

[shel90]

Perhaps, you're now trying to convince yourself otherwise?


Perhaps, you're now trying to catch up with your Deaf peers?


And are you currently always 100% happy with your Deaf existence?

Let's face it no one is really 100% happy all the time in any environment.

Sure I got my problems but at least I am not stuck in an environment where I was constantly left out and missing out on information and communication by pretending I was hearing 24/7.


Sure I got problem with the Deaf community sometimes but the whole point is about equal access to language and communication. Who likes to live a life constantly asking people to repeat what they say only to get "Never minds" or "I will tell you later."

I just find that hard to believe that someone is happy that way because it is human nature to want to connect with others equally.

Since learning ASL and discovering the Deaf community at 25 years old, I finally was able to love myself ...well, if my body would be rock hard, I could love myself more.

I think others know what I mean.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

know quite a few deaf people who are very happy with their upbringing and education, who are doing what they want to do and don't feel limitations imposed upon them. I consider them to be success stories, not those who may have pretty speech but who are miserable and feel terrible regret and bitterness.

On the other hand,
a lot of times those oral deaf people are the very same people who rave about being a part of the hearing world, are the very same people who complain they don't fit into the hearing world, or who have very few close friends or who buy into the AG Bell (the organization) rheotirc that oral only and mainstreaming is the best thing in the world, and they would have gotten a crappy education if they'd been exposed to *teh HORROR* Sign and Deaf culture!

people complain, it's human nature. Is it your experience that pral deaf people complain more about their lack of access than ASL Deaf people complain about lack of qualified interpreters? Complain about hearing in groups more than the Deaf complain about their families not signing? And so on.

it is just a different set of challenges.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Really? You think that's what I said there, hmm? I talked about the success of a whole range of paths taken, refer to successful people, some who don't utter a word, have never had a speech lesson, don't wear aids as successes and what you take away is DEAF CHILDREN MUST SPEAK OR THEY ARE UTTER FAILURES. Really interesting comprehension skills you have.

The emphasis in the thread has been the use of assistive hearing apparatus and of late, the need or not of speech therapy or the effectiveness, or ineffectiveness of these methods. FJ is always saying that to master the entire English language you need to speak. I am saying to the contrary. I comprehend very well Grendel. BTW, I am not one to change my perspective radically. I hold true to my beliefs thank you very much. As for my deafness, my parents and I were lied to which affected my whole life, and because they were professionals, we were inclined to follow what they told us. Now, that we know otherwise. I have not waivered in what I stand for.

The capitalised section: You wrote that not me. It is not my quote.

please actually read what i write before you make claims about my beliefs. You have misunderstood every post i've written. I clearly said you can have great language and poor speech, that therapy does not teach language and that you can be perfectly fluent in written english without sound or speech.

you incorrectly make assumptions about grendel and i, either because we are hearing or because we chose implants for our children. Instead of making judgements, read what we actually say.

 

[BecLak]

Wirelessly posted



please actually read what i write before you make claims about my beliefs. You have misunderstood every post i've written. I clearly said you can have great language and poor speech, that therapy does not teach language and that you can be perfectly fluent in written english without sound or speech.

you incorrectly make assumptions about grendel and i, either because we are hearing or because we chose implants for our children. Instead of making judgements, read what we actually say.

See, your emphasis here in your response post is on written language- so you are saying you cannot be fluent in the mechanics of spoken language without sound or speech therefore a Deaf person without a CI or HA cannot master the entire (your choice of word not mine) language. Is that not correct?

 

[Frisky Feline]

Yeah Interesting, I know three people who are HOHs and all of them are siblings. I do not know how old did two of them got CIs. One of them who have HOH with HA. I believe they all haven't learn ASL until later. HOH guy with HA decided to take ASL becasue he fell in love with the deaf gal and got married. One of them who have CI and married hearing husband and know ASL from her early teen years. She seems to be reserved person even she signs pretty good. She could have hang out with the deaf community but she chose to be in the path of her stylelife in the hearing world. Oddly, she is so talkactive with me in signing. She's a real cool gal! The other guy with CI seemed almost embrassased if someone signs to him and he walked out or told them to stop sign. The HOH with HA guy can speaks pretty good and is an easy going person. He fell in love with his wife and be in a deaf community more than his two siblings. I found it very interesting about them! Oh yeah I met their hearing sibling and she signs pretty good for being a hearing chica.

 

[GrendelQ]

See, your emphasis here in your response post is on written language- so you are saying you cannot be fluent in the mechanics of spoken language without sound or speech therefore a Deaf person without a CI or HA cannot master the entire (your choice of word not mine) language. Is that not correct?

She did not write that "a Deaf person without a CI or HA cannot master the entire (your choice of word not mine) language" -- you did.

You may be reading off of a small screen, I know the text on my iphone can be really tough to read. Her post actually says:
"...you can be perfectly fluent in written english without sound or speech"

 

[BecLak]

She did not write that "a Deaf person without a CI or HA cannot master the entire (your choice of word not mine) language" -- you did.

You may be reading off of a small screen, I know the text on my iphone can be really tough to read. Her post actually says:
---------------------------


Note the emphasis:

"...you can be perfectly fluent in written english without sound or speech"

Here is my point I have read and comprehended all the posts without any difficulty....and I can see normal text just fine. In past posts she says.....you cannot master the English language without access to sound. I am saying you can master the mechanics of the spoken language without access to sound therefore mastering both written and spoken language without access to sound and without CIs and HAs. Articulation has nothing to do with mastering language otherwise English could not be considered as an International language.

 

[Bottesini]

Here is my point I have read and comprehended all the posts without any difficulty....and I can see normal text just fine. In past posts she says.....you cannot master the English language without access to sound. I am saying you can master the mechanics of the spoken language without access to sound therefore mastering both written and spoken language without access to sound and without CIs and HAs. Articulation has nothing to do with mastering language otherwise English could not be considered as an International language.

No you often can't master the mechanics of spoken English without access to sound.

THat is just a simple fact.

 

[posts from hell]

Here is my point I have read and comprehended all the posts without any difficulty....and I can see normal text just fine. In past posts she says.....you cannot master the English language without access to sound. I am saying you can master the mechanics of the spoken language without access to sound therefore mastering both written and spoken language without access to sound and without CIs and HAs. Articulation has nothing to do with mastering language otherwise English could not be considered as an International language.

This is the truth. She said that the deaf dont have good english because they're deaf. FJ likes to blur things.

I suggest everyone not to respond to FJ at all.

 

[Danb]

I don't see this as a mechanical issue for the OP. This is more of an identity issue. Mechanics are not providing the panacea he was led to believe it would. Time to stop relying on mechanics and look inward toward personal goals and desires, and outward toward cultural ways to address the dissatisfaction. That is the lasting way. The OP has demonstrated that very well.

Yes, thank you, this is exactly what i was trying to say. Remapping the CI might improve things but it won't give me my old life back. I've lost relationships with friends and family because of going deaf.

A lot of my life was about going to parties either in college, with freinds, or family. My family is huge, 75 people on one side and 50 on the other. We always were close too.

The CI hasn't improved that because i have to stay in quiet places, and often have to ask a person to repeat themselves because i didn't understand what they said, even though i heard them loudly enough. That disrupts the flow of the conversation. Between the two i have a hard time keeping up with the conversation.

Some people have suggested going to group meetings. How do i do that if i have a hard time hearing in group settings? Isn't it noisy?

 

[BecLak]

No you often can't master the mechanics of spoken English without access to sound.

THat is just a simple fact.

You can and you have, dear Botti, otherwise you would not be able to read or write fluently either. And that you do excellently. That is just my point. Articulation has nothing to do with language. You don't need to speak or articulate to master a language both in written and spoken forms. For example: ee as in see; ea as in bread; i_e as in bike - when there are 2 vowels the first says its name, the second is silent. You can read the mechanics of the spoken language and understand the phonics without access to sound.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

She did not write that "a Deaf person without a CI or HA cannot master the entire (your choice of word not mine) language" -- you did.

You may be reading off of a small screen, I know the text on my iphone can be really tough to read. Her post actually says:
---------------------------


Note the emphasis:

"...you can be perfectly fluent in written english without sound or speech"

Here is my point I have read and comprehended all the posts without any difficulty....and I can see normal text just fine. In past posts she says.....you cannot master the English language without access to sound. I am saying you can master the mechanics of the spoken language without access to sound therefore mastering both written and spoken language without access to sound and without CIs and HAs. Articulation has nothing to do with mastering language otherwise English could not be considered as an International language.

i have never spoken about articulation, you have.

cis give access to sound. The best, easiest, and most effetive way to learn spoken language is through hearing fluent spoken language and learning it. You can learn it other ways, but often that means years of hard therapy, struggles understanding (because of lipreading) and often huge language gaps.

That has nothing to do with written english fluency. I have repeatedly said that written english fluency has nothing to do with sound.

what exactly are you thinking i'm saying?

 

[posts from hell]

Wirelessly posted



i have never spoken about articulation, you have.

cis give access to sound. The best, easiest, and most effetive way to learn spoken language is through hearing fluent spoken language and learning it. You can learn it other ways, but often that means years of hard therapy, struggles understanding (because of lipreading) and often huge language gaps.

That has nothing to do with written english fluency. I have repeatedly said that written english fluency has nothing to do with sound.

what exactly are you thinking i'm saying?

Why does that differ from your statement in the past when you said the deaf have bad english because they're deaf?

 

[BecLak]

This is the truth. She said that the deaf dont have good english because they're deaf. FJ likes to blur things.

I suggest everyone not to respond to FJ at all.

PFH.