Disability for obesity related health problems

[Reba]

Not everyone can afford an elite education, and only a select few who apply get accepted, financial aid or a scholarship. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer. So it is every person's fault that their parents couldn't send them to Harvard, or that their passion just happens to lie in a career that doesn't pay well? With family planning, poor people have the same biological drive as rich people so I don't see why they should get punished any more for it.

Not everyone has to be a doctor or lawyer or have an "elite" education in order to make a good living. People with two-year degrees from state technical colleges can make very good incomes.

I don't know what biological drive has to do with family planning. People can use birth control methods and still enjoy their drives.

 

[CJB]

Not everyone has to be a doctor or lawyer or have an "elite" education in order to make a good living. People with two-year degrees from state technical colleges can make very good incomes.

I don't know what biological drive has to do with family planning. People can use birth control methods and still enjoy their drives.

I can agree that some people may be poor as a result of poor choices, but to say all poverty is the result of poor planning is absurd.

 

[Reba]

Well, I think the problem started when fast food restaurants became popular in the 60s or 70s, I believe and now people are realizing that eating there often isnt a good idea. Old habits are hard to break. My mom told me when I was a kid, going to a fast food restaurant was like a big family event..now, it is like a part of our meal planning. Hope I am making sense?

Your mom is right.

When I was a kid I remember going to a McDonalds once. That's it.

When I was teen, I was too poor to go to fast food restaurants. Once in a while, I would get a milk shake at the soda fountain or diner but that was a rare treat.

In our part of Connecticut, the only "take-out" food we had was pizzas and grinders from the Italian and Greek mom-and-pop restaurants. Mmmmm!

When my dad would visit we would go to restaurants (not buffets or chain eateries). They were nice restaurants (steak and lobster) but we didn't go often.

Eating out was a rare occasion, especially for poor families.

 

[Reba]

I can agree that some people may be poor as a result of poor choices, but to say all poverty is the result of poor planning is absurd.

I wouldn't say that all poverty is the result of poor planning.

 

[CJB]

I wouldn't say that all poverty is the result of poor planning.

My reply about planning and education was more in response to TXgolfer.

 

[TXgolfer]

Not everyone can afford an elite education, and only a select few who apply get accepted, financial aid or a scholarship.

Sure they can.....I worked my way through TCU while raising a child and without accepting Financial Aid. It can be done.....but it is not easy.

Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer. So it is every person's fault that their parents couldn't send them to Harvard, or that their passion just happens to lie in a career that doesn't pay well?

Yes it is.....we all make CHOICES in life. After graduating I could have followed my "passion". Instead I decided I would rather retire early so I worked my ass off. 44 now......I have been retired for 2 years.

With family planning, poor people have the same biological drive as rich people so I don't see why they should get punished any more for it

Common sense says if you cannot afford kids....don't have them. It's not fair to the kids and it is very selfish of the parents. If the poor decide to have kids anyway then they made a CHOICE so again that is their problem. The are responsible for their situation AND the start that they have provided for they kids.......not society


Yes maybe a few fall through the cracks....but most poor people are poor due to their poor planning and lack of desire to improve themselves through legal means.

 

[jillio]

I can agree that some people may be poor as a result of poor choices, but to say all poverty is the result of poor planning is absurd.

It is not only absurd, it is terribly judgemental and intolerant. The vast majority of poverty is not the result of poor planning, but of socially created barriers that cause disparate opportunity for certain populations.

 

[TXgolfer]

It is terribly judgemental and intolerant.

It was meant to be....

The vast majority of poverty is not the result of poor planning, but of socially created barriers that cause disparate opportunity for certain populations.

Excuses excuses........ :roll:

There is a way out......it takes work.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

I can see where Reba and TXGolfer are coming from, but isn't for ANY economy to thrive, a group has to be exploited sooner or later? Be it locally or overseas? Otherwise no one will get ahead in life and everyone will be equal; no super-luxury like a BMW or a Lexus. Everyone has the same TV, the same radio, the same kitchen, the same apartment, the same house... the same everything. Kind of a bland world if you ask me.

Not everyone can afford to get an education, and not necessarily everyone SHOULD get an education. Remember how far a BA or a BSc used to get you? Now people are having a hard time getting a job even with a MA or MSc. Why? There's just too many people with degrees out there. Same thing with technical trades, sometimes we have too many MRI technicians graduating, sometimes we have too many nurses and so on. Many of those people end up working low-level jobs because the jobs they trained for are all filled up. None of those are results of poor planning or poor foresights; it just is.

 

[TXgolfer]

I can see where Reba and TXGolfer are coming from, but isn't for ANY economy to thrive, a group has to be exploited sooner or later? Be it locally or overseas? Otherwise no one will get ahead in life and everyone will be equal; no super-luxury like a BMW or a Lexus. Everyone has the same TV, the same radio, the same kitchen, the same apartment, the same house... the same everything. Kind of a bland world if you ask me.

Not everyone can afford to get an education, and not necessarily everyone SHOULD get an education. Remember how far a BA or a BSc used to get you? Now people are having a hard time getting a job even with a MA or MSc. Why? There's just too many people with degrees out there. Same thing with technical trades, sometimes we have too many MRI technicians graduating, sometimes we have too many nurses and so on. Many of those people end up working low-level jobs because the jobs they trained for are all filled up. None of those are results of poor planning or poor foresights; it just is.

True.....it's just life. Poor planning comes in if one is unhappy with their life.

One of the happiest people I know is a guy I play ball with. He is also one of the poorest people I know. He is a janitor by trade with a wife and three kids....never went to college. Yet he has many brothers and sisters and what seems to be hundreds of cousins..... None of them have new cars or nice houses. But what they do have is a family get together every weekend that amounts to more fun than most people will ever experience. I have been to a few of them. Good times. I think if you were to offer him help he would say no thanks......while thinking about how much help you need.

The same goes for people who pursue their passion.......Just like many teachers......They know going in that there is no money in the field.......But they love what they do. They made a choice......not necessarily a bad choice. Depend on what you want out of life.

 

[CJB]

Thank you jillio and souggy for articulating so much better what I was trying to say.

 

[dogmom]

one thing I think about here is role models. Kids growing up need to have role models to teach and show them things like healthy eating habits, interest in education and so forth. If a child ends up in a family where there are multiple factors intersecting with poverty and that is all the kid sees and no encouragement for change is forthcoming, the child may very well do what they see the adults or older kids doing around them because that is what they know. In order to make a choice, one has to know that a choice CAN be made. Kids also need to know that they have a future and that it is worth planning for. Poverty can lead to situations in which the child believes they have no future.
Sometimes children are the result of terrible things like rape, incest, abuse as well as inadequate access to family planning and overall medical care. It is quite simplistic to say - if you can't afford kids, don't have them.
Poverty and its consequences don't have quick and simple solutions.

 

[CJB]

one thing I think about here is role models. Kids growing up need to have role models to teach and show them things like healthy eating habits, interest in education and so forth. If a child ends up in a family where there are multiple factors intersecting with poverty and that is all the kid sees and no encouragement for change is forthcoming, the child may very well do what they see the adults or older kids doing around them because that is what they know. In order to make a choice, one has to know that a choice CAN be made. Kids also need to know that they have a future and that it is worth planning for. Poverty can lead to situations in which the child believes they have no future.
Sometimes children are the result of terrible things like rape, incest, abuse as well as inadequate access to family planning and overall medical care. It is quite simplistic to say - if you can't afford kids, don't have them.
Poverty and its consequences don't have quick and simple solutions.

 

[DeafDoc1]

Getting back to the OP's question, I think disability benefits should be provided only if the recipients participate in nutrition and exercise training programs. As a rehab physician, I can tell you that there are very few conditions that cannot benefit from a monitored exercise program. This could create a win/win scenario; reduce the secondary complications of obesity, and perhaps improve the person's function to the point that they may be employable again.

 

[jillio]

It was meant to be....





Excuses excuses........ :roll:

There is a way out......it takes work.

Spoken like one of the priviledged.:roll:

 

[jillio]

Getting back to the OP's question, I think disability benefits should be provided only if the recipients participate in nutrition and exercise training programs. As a rehab physician, I can tell you that there are very few conditions that cannot benefit from a monitored exercise program. This could create a win/win scenario; reduce the secondary complications of obesity, and perhaps improve the person's function to the point that they may be employable again.

Absolutely. Treatment and recovery should be a part of the granting of disability benefits. But then, I also go by the philosophy that reducing functional limitations should be a goal of any program providing disability benefits.

 

[Banjo]

Absolutely. Treatment and recovery should be a part of the granting of disability benefits. But then, I also go by the philosophy that reducing functional limitations should be a goal of any program providing disability benefits.

Here in Ontario, there is a form of welfare/finaniclal assistance called ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Plan). It provides an income for the disabled. Medical/drug and dental coverage are also included with the plan.

What really bothers me is the fact deaf students are often fast-tracked to the plan prior to turning 18. No conditions, no strings attached, nothing. Basically, they are getting an income just for being deaf. Therefore, they will not be motivated enough to seek a higher education, a job, etc. You get the idea.

Why should they be handed "free money" just because they are deaf? The ODSP itself is not meant to be used for the rest of our lives. There are exceptions due to some very difficult situations, but many people are perfectly capable of working for a living.

A lot of people my age are still on it and they don't even bother to look for a job. In fact, not a lot of them want to work. They want to socialize and party as much as they can. How do I know this? Because I happen to know a good number of them.

If the students are being fast-tracked to being put on ODSP as soon they are of legal age, they could agree to the condition that they seek a higher education. That way, the government can consider it an investment for a better future.

I'm grateful I have a full-time job with benefits, a house, a car and more. I earned everything I have now, I worked hard to get where I am today. It makes you appreciate your life much more when you know you earned it through hard work.

 

[netrox]

Obesity is not always preventable. There are those that have a biological cause for their obesity. They are not responsible for their obesity causing disorder, and therefore, should not be penalized for having a disorder.

That is untrue in healthy people. Some disorders do make them gain weight despite eating less and they need treatment.

But obesity is preventable, even those with disorders.

For those who have genetics that make them have super efficient metabolism, they simply have to eat less than the average. Just because they are given large portions does not mean that it's not preventable. If you gain weight, you are eating too much. If you lose weight, you're not eating enough. It's that simple.

If you jog for an hour, you need to eat more calories. If you don't jog, you need less calories. It's that simple.

 

[jillio]

Here in Ontario, there is a form of welfare/finaniclal assistance called ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Plan). It provides an income for the disabled. Medical/drug and dental coverage are also included with the plan.

What really bothers me is the fact deaf students are often fast-tracked to the plan prior to turning 18. No conditions, no strings attached, nothing. Basically, they are getting an income just for being deaf. Therefore, they will not be motivated enough to seek a higher education, a job, etc. You get the idea.

Why should they be handed "free money" just because they are deaf? The ODSP itself is not meant to be used for the rest of our lives. There are exceptions due to some very difficult situations, but many people are perfectly capable of working for a living.

A lot of people my age are still on it and they don't even bother to look for a job. In fact, not a lot of them want to work. They want to socialize and party as much as they can. How do I know this? Because I happen to know a good number of them.

If the students are being fast-tracked to being put on ODSP as soon they are of legal age, they could agree to the condition that they seek a higher education. That way, the government can consider it an investment for a better future.

I'm grateful I have a full-time job with benefits, a house, a car and more. I earned everything I have now, I worked hard to get where I am today. It makes you appreciate your life much more when you know you earned it through hard work.

Agreed. Instead of fast tracking, they need to be providing transitional services and employment assistance in the form of advocating for accommodation in the work place for these individuals, as well as guidance in employment searches, strengths and needs testing, etc.

 

[jillio]

That is untrue in healthy people. Some disorders do make them gain weight despite eating less and they need treatment.

But obesity is preventable, even those with disorders.

For those who have genetics that make them have super efficient metabolism, they simply have to eat less than the average. Just because they are given large portions does not mean that it's not preventable. If you gain weight, you are eating too much. If you lose weight, you're not eating enough. It's that simple.

If you jog for an hour, you need to eat more calories. If you don't jog, you need less calories. It's that simple.

If someone is healthy, they are not obese. And that applies to physical, emotional and mental health across the board.