Decision

[Oceanbreeze]

And some of them are almost like ads for AVT or schools or whatever. Back when Hearing Exchange was active, I got the vibe that it was almost an ad for Oral Only Schools and CIs......heck I still get the vibe...look at the blog and notice that virtually all the posts are like PR releases for Coachlear or AG BAD PR.
And before someone piles on OB....need I remind you that newborn screening is NEW? You want to know what a world is like when you don't have newborn screening? We dhh adults are products of that system. I do have this to say...it does seem like the docs think that if therapy or intervention isn't started the EXACT SECOND a kid is identified as dhh, they'll be doomed to life failure.

Thank you, DD. That's exactly what I was getting at with that train of thought. Early identification is awesome, but what do you DO with it? It seems like it's just an easy way for everyone to jump on the oral only/oral first bandwagon.

 

[deafdyke]

When I saw my son's face light up and watched him just take in and become fascinated with sign and the deaf adults he was meeting, I could see that there was a connection that he wasn't making anywhere else.

And one wonders how many of those oral sucesses would have the same reaction if they were exposed to ASL and Deaf culture and Deaf adults.

 

[BecLak]

And one wonders how many of those oral sucesses would have the same reaction if they were exposed to ASL and Deaf culture and Deaf adults.

I can't speak for others in this case, but I know I am now experiencing the same positive reaction as Jillio's son did towards sign language, Deaf community and Deaf Culture, and I am 47! (I am one of those so-called oral success stories),

 

[shel90]

HMMM..I wonder how much time blogging spent could have be spent on taking the child to Deaf events and learning ASL?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

HMMM..I wonder how much time blogging spent could have be spent on taking the child to Deaf events and learning ASL?

Or, the countless hrs these parents spend online researching CIs or bilateral implantation; simultaneous vs sequential implantations, AVT vs AOT.... I could go on and on....

 

[deafdyke]

I think a lot of the parents are afraid that if they let their kid learn ASL and expose them to Deaf Ed, they'll be doomed to low academic acheivement.
That really seems to be the driving force for a lot of parents....they don't understand that the low academic acheivement also applies to mainstreamed and oral kids too. They also don't understand that AG Bell tries to paint the best possible view of oral deafness, but the "facts" are either manipulated (ie most deaf people don't use ASL. That's true, BUT that's b/c only about 10% of dhh people are dhh as kids) or they portray the high acheivers as the "norm"
One thing that annoys me to NO END, is the constant hyperfocus on inclusion/mainstreaming as the ULTIMATE GLORIOUS GOAL. Like you bring up the possibilty of specialized educational programming, and you get parents and experts whining that it's segregating the kids. No, it's making sure they get a specialized education. Mainstreaming/inclusion has been the norm for decades now. Yet there really hasn't been an uptick in acheivement levels.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I think a lot of the parents are afraid that if they let their kid learn ASL and expose them to Deaf Ed, they'll be doomed to low academic acheivement.
That really seems to be the driving force for a lot of parents....they don't understand that the low academic acheivement also applies to mainstreamed and oral kids too. They also don't understand that AG Bell tries to paint the best possible view of oral deafness, but the "facts" are either manipulated (ie most deaf people don't use ASL. That's true, BUT that's b/c only about 10% of dhh people are dhh as kids) or they portray the high acheivers as the "norm"
One thing that annoys me to NO END, is the constant hyperfocus on inclusion/mainstreaming as the ULTIMATE GLORIOUS GOAL. Like you bring up the possibilty of specialized educational programming, and you get parents and experts whining that it's segregating the kids. No, it's making sure they get a specialized education. Mainstreaming/inclusion has been the norm for decades now. Yet there really hasn't been an uptick in acheivement levels.

Or, my favorite...

Jr must, must learn English AT ALL COST because the rest of the family is hearing, and, it's JUST NOT REALISTIC for everyone to learn ASL!!! Ugh! :roll:

 

[chipmunkis]

One thing that annoys me to NO END, is the constant hyperfocus on inclusion/mainstreaming as the ULTIMATE GLORIOUS GOAL. Like you bring up the possibility of specialized educational programming, and you get parents and experts whining that it's segregating the kids. No, it's making sure they get a specialized education. Mainstreaming/inclusion has been the norm for decades now. Yet there really hasn't been an uptick in acheivement levels.

I could not agree with you more!!! As someone who works in the school system, I am frustrated by the insistence that EVERY child MUST be in a regular classroom... regardless of whether or not it is the most appropriate/ suitable placement, and regardless of whether or not there are the necessary supports in place.

I don't know much about the US system but here in Canada, WAY too many kids are falling through the cracks because they are not getting the support they need in the "regular" classroom.

 

[chipmunkis]

Or, my favorite...

Jr must, must learn English AT ALL COST because the rest of the family is hearing, and, it's JUST NOT REALISTIC for everyone to learn ASL!!! Ugh! :roll:

I know that happens, I just don't GET it. If you (the general "you") had to move to another country, you'd learn the language in order to communicate...so why not learn the language to be able to MOST EFFECTIVELY communicate with your child/ grandchild/ sibling/ etc....?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I know that happens, I just don't GET it. If you (the general "you") had to move to another country, you'd learn the language in order to communicate...so why not learn the language to be able to MOST EFFECTIVELY communicate with your child/ grandchild/ sibling/ etc....?

That's a question for the oralist/audists. But, I'll reckon it has to do with the advice given as soon as the child is ID'ed Deaf or Hoh. It's just ASSUMED that English is the preferred language, and, they run with that; never giving thought to what is best for the child. Only after the child shows language delays do they place a child in an ASL environment. This makes it incredibly tough for the child to aquire language fluently.

 

[chipmunkis]

That's a question for the oralist/audists. But, I'll reckon it has to do with the advice given as soon as the child is ID'ed Deaf or Hoh. It's just ASSUMED that English is the preferred language, and, they run with that; never giving thought to what is best for the child. Only after the child shows language delays do they place a child in an ASL environment. This makes it incredibly tough for the child to aquire language fluently.

Yes it is!

 

[deafdyke]

As someone who works in the school system, I am frustrated by the insistence that EVERY child MUST be in a regular classroom... regardless of whether or not it is the most appropriate/ suitable placement, and regardless of whether or not there are the necessary supports in place.

I don't know much about the US system but here in Canada, WAY too many kids are falling through the cracks because they are not getting the support they need in the "regular" classroom.

*nods* Yes. Kids with for example mild LDs or who may just be a walker or wheelchair user or who may only have unilateral hearing loss or fill in the blank with whatever mild disablity would fit in pretty well in an average classroom. And that's all well and good. Unfortuntatly, when disabilties get more complicated it gets too hard to educate them. Most mainstream teachers are not trained to teach blind kids or dhh kids or even mentally handicapped kids.
I know of a case in Canada in Alberta where there's a HOH kid (just hoh) is in a LIFE SKILLS class. (for high school)

It's just ASSUMED that English is the preferred language, and, they run with that; never giving thought to what is best for the child. Only after the child shows language delays do they place a child in an ASL environment. This makes it incredibly tough for the child to aquire language fluently.

That is why I am pro oral training AND ASL!!!!!!! I wish I could smack that teacher who first viewed sign as a crutch.

 

[chipmunkis]

*nods* Yes. Kids with for example mild LDs or who may just be a walker or wheelchair user or who may only have unilateral hearing loss or fill in the blank with whatever mild disablity would fit in pretty well in an average classroom.

And even those kids can and WILL fall through the cracks if that "average" classroom doesn't provide the appropriate supports.

 

[deafskeptic]

And even those kids can and WILL fall through the cracks if that "average" classroom doesn't provide the appropriate supports.

Yep. People never seem to learn. Needing support should not be seen as being "dependant" or as a crutch when most don't need it.

For example, I used to have an Art teacher who refused to let me have a note taker in my art class.

Most of the time, I don't need one for my art classes but this art class was heavy on lectures so I requested one.

She said in the real world, I would have to swim or sink on my own and others wouldn't accomadate me and refused to let me have a notetaker. We even went to her supervisor who saw the problem at once but she wouldn't budge even after her supervisor saw her

 

[deafdyke]

And even those kids can and WILL fall through the cracks if that "average" classroom doesn't provide the appropriate supports.

True, but its easier to provide those supports since Resource Room style sped is set up for kids like those. I do bash Resource Rooms a lot....but they ARE good at educating kids with LDs and mild issues.

 

[chipmunkis]

True, but its easier to provide those supports since Resource Room style sped is set up for kids like those. I do bash Resource Rooms a lot....but they ARE good at educating kids with LDs and mild issues.

Here, most children with LDs and "mild" issues are in the regular classroom... some with support, some without, depending on the specific designation as well as how strongly their parents advocate. Sadly, the parents of kids in younger grades are often still learning how to navigate the education and special ed systems.
At the elementary level, in fact, most kids with more severe issues are also in regular classrooms, with more support and with some pullouts. There are very few Resource Rooms in Elementary Schools here.

 

[dogmom]

I was in the Resource Room <pull-out> and my LD was never caught. I was always confused in math and math-related things and fell farther and farther behind. I got very good at guessing and faking things and my reading and writing grades always salvaged my overall average.

Insistence on "regular" <ed, class, whatever> already comes from a perspective of bias- there's the "norm" and then there's NOT....that "colors" everything that follows, I think.

 

[jillio]

ok...I get that!

I agree...I think it is SO important as a parent to be able to recognize AND acknowledge when a choice is made that it might NOT have been the best thing for the child... We make decisions based on the information we have at that time and sometimes those decisions are based on faulty information, or incomplete information....or just ignorance.

Exactly. We are human, every one of us. Humans make mistakes. The only fault is in not accepting your own limitations and admitting when you need to re-think a decision.

And...there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting your children know that you are human and made a mistake. Admit it, correct it, and go on. That is a wonderful example to give a child.

 

[jillio]

HMMM..I wonder how much time blogging spent could have be spent on taking the child to Deaf events and learning ASL?

Excellent point! I know I didn't even have time to chat on a message board when my son was growing up. I was too busy going to Deaf events with him, going to Deaf school activities, sudying the language and the culture, and making sure my home environment met his needs.

 

[Bebonang]

Excellent point! I know I didn't even have time to chat on a message board when my son was growing up. I was too busy going to Deaf events with him, going to Deaf school activities, sudying the language and the culture, and making sure my home environment met his needs.

Bravo! I wish I had a mom like you. That is exactly what I wanted to do instead of being in the mainstream school and not be social with ASL Deaf kids and adults and be immerse in Deaf Culture. That also goes for my home environment where I don't have special needs like ASL and other needs. I would be in heaven as happy as a lark.