Deaf People and Autistic People?

Pythias

Pythias

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On a general Q&A site I frequent, I saw a question asking if Deaf people tend to have an easier time than others relating to people with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).

I've heard that Deaf tend to be better at reading people, and obviously wouldn't mind the fact that Autistics don't communicate verbally very well. That being said, I could see how it could be harder to understand those with ASD, since their facial expressions and body language tends to be more subtle.

Personally, I have many many friends with ASD, but that could just be me.

Any thoughts?
 
I think it has a lot to do with exposure to different disabilities.

For example a deaf person who has never been exposed to people with autism may not understand it.

Hearing people who has been exposed to autism would understand it.

I've witnessed deaf people picking on a deaf autistic student before. Therefore, I don't think it is deaf/hearing issue, but rather exposure.

Just my 2 pesos.
 
Why would the question even come up? The two disabilties are completely different. Austistic people have difficulty reading and understanding emotions and interacting with people in general. (and before I'm attacked my best friend is HFA/Aspie and she has told me about her experiances) Many of them cannot even speechread! Whereas dhh folks do have difficulty in interacting with hearing and speaking people, but not if they are fluent in ASL.
 
It's a good point about exposure.

As for why this question would come up- It is a general question and answer site with random questions like "What, if anything, do math and art have in common?" So people are very much just trying to make connections.

I don't think there is confusion about the two situations (Deaf/ASD) being similar. The question seems to be more of a, "Do the needs/abilities of Deaf people and people with ASD complement each other in some way?"

I was just curious as to if anyone had thoughts one way or another on this. :)
 
Ohhhhh, I don't know about this at all.

I am an aid to an autistic teenager...the only similarity I would draw between her and my fiance (who is deaf) would be the sense of isolation they've experienced in a mainstream school setting...the feeling of being left out of groups/not being able to understand those around you. But the reasons behind such misunderstandings are completely different. The girl I work with seems to have a very hard time understanding others' emotions, difficulty expressing her own, and is very unsure of how to act in social situations. I have never seen any of that in my fiance, nor any other D/deaf person I've met. It's usually hearing people (not fluent in sign) that are awkward when interacting with Deaf...not the other way around.
 
dereksbicycles said:
I think it has a lot to do with exposure to different disabilities.

For example a deaf person who has never been exposed to people with autism may not understand it.

Hearing people who has been exposed to autism would understand it.

I've witnessed deaf people picking on a deaf autistic student before. Therefore, I don't think it is deaf/hearing issue, but rather exposure.

Just my 2 pesos.
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I agree. I've seen several Deaf folks making fun of developed mentally disabled people :/. I always expect to see epistemic privilege kicking in, but that's not always the case.
 
I used to work with Autistic people and I've read a few articles. It seems that Autistic people communicate better in sign langague. More specifically, they're able to express themselves better.
 
melindajanet said:
Ohhhhh, I don't know about this at all.

I am an aid to an autistic teenager...the only similarity I would draw between her and my fiance (who is deaf) would be the sense of isolation they've experienced in a mainstream school setting...the feeling of being left out of groups/not being able to understand those around you. But the reasons behind such misunderstandings are completely different. The girl I work with seems to have a very hard time understanding others' emotions, difficulty expressing her own, and is very unsure of how to act in social situations. I have never seen any of that in my fiance, nor any other D/deaf person I've met. It's usually hearing people (not fluent in sign) that are awkward when interacting with Deaf...not the other way around.
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You could say that about many other disabilties too you know. My friend is blind and experianced a lot of the same things too.
 
I think there is a big difference between the two. One, being Autism DSM IV is classified as a disability. Deafness is not a disability; just not able to hear. Everything else is in tact. Language, ability to socialize and communicate are equal to hearing. Only difference is they have their own language. Once we learn their language we can have full meaningful conversations with them. It's like going to another country. We wouldn't be classified as having a disability if we couldn't speak Spanish and needed an interpreter so that we could get around. But once people began speaking English to us we could engage in more conversations.

Children with Autism are unable to communicate, express themselves either verbally or by using signing. They have the ability to to learn language, but it must be intensively taught to them verbally if they are verbal or by using signs if they are nonverbal. In time they can have meaningful conversations, but it depends on the developmental delay, and what age they are functioning at. Some kids have a developmental delay of 1-2 years; some 9 years. It really depends.
 
As a person on the spectrum, I am not totally unable to understand facial expressions/emotions (that said, I do encounter issues), but I often have trouble expressing them, ASL facial expressions included.

I (as a hearing person) do see parallels between Deaf culture and autistic "culture":

Many state they don't want/need a cure.
Rejection of labels hearing NT society has deemed "PC"; instead in favor of positive/identity-first language ("deaf" instead of "hearing impaired"; "autistic (person)"/"autist" instead of "person with autism" because autism is pervasive and inseparable from the person)
I've seen a lot of Deaf people who hate AGBell, and practically every autistic person I've met hates Autism Speaks.
Hearing, allistic, neurotypical people underestimate our abilities/overestimate our abilities/laugh at us/refuse to listen to what we have to say/just don't understand it.
Many autistic people I've met criticize curebie "autism parents" with a thirst for normalization; many Deaf people criticize parents who choose oral-only/no sign.
I've seen autistic people who can communicate through text but cannot speak/sign well in real life. This might be compared to the sign/speech debate.

Also, an FYI: I am linguistically and intellectually on par (if not advanced) for my age level, and I did not need to be "intensively taught" language. Though I do know autistic people that do not (currently) communicate in a widely understandable way, sparrow2, I find your assumption/generalization that all autistic people are developmentally behind (with the implication that this applies to more than just socialization) offensive. That's my rant. :p
 
Oh fuck what.no no no sign langauge is for Deaf, it was made up and used by deaf, what the HELLs wrong with you people? quaksters GTFO, stop meddling. We're not compariable to disabled groups...urgh this makes me sick.
 
Hahaha, thanks for your replies!

Though some people didn't read beyond the title of the thread very carefully, stating: "the only similarity I would draw" "I think there is a big difference between the two." "We're not compariable to disabled groups"

As stated previously, I'm not asking about similarities or comparisons between the two groups. That would be ridiculous. The question that someone was asking was if Deaf people can relate (better understand or communicate with) more easily than others to Aspies/Auties (A/A's).

Theories behind this could include:
(A) A/A's tend to communicate using their environment (ie, handing you an object instead of saying in words, "Look at this object."), which is often confusing to neurotypicals (NT's). A thought may be that Deaf could understand better due to their experience in non-verbal communication, especially in their experience of communicating with hearing people who don't know sign.
(B) Some Deaf are thought to read subtle facial expressions and body language well. Since people tend to have a difficult time reading A/A's much more subtle facial expressions and body language- this is an area where Deaf would maybe understand them better.

BTW, most Aspies and Auties I know would vehemently argue that they are not a "disabled" group. Yes, ASD is in the DSM, but they didn't put it there- NT's did. Most of them do not consider Autism a disability or something to be fixed, but part of who they are, and suggesting that who they are is a disability is kind of ignorant, imho.
 
Pythias said:
Hahaha, thanks for your replies!

Though some people didn't read beyond the title of the thread very carefully, stating: "the only similarity I would draw" "I think there is a big difference between the two." "We're not compariable to disabled groups"

As stated previously, I'm not asking about similarities or comparisons between the two groups. That would be ridiculous. The question that someone was asking was if Deaf people can relate (better understand or communicate with) more easily than others to Aspies/Auties (A/A's).

Theories behind this could include:
(A) A/A's tend to communicate using their environment (ie, handing you an object instead of saying in words, "Look at this object."), which is often confusing to neurotypicals (NT's). A thought may be that Deaf could understand better due to their experience in non-verbal communication, especially in their experience of communicating with hearing people who don't know sign.
(B) Some Deaf are thought to read subtle facial expressions and body language well. Since people tend to have a difficult time reading A/A's much more subtle facial expressions and body language- this is an area where Deaf would maybe understand them better.

BTW, most Aspies and Auties I know would vehemently argue that they are not a "disabled" group. Yes, ASD is in the DSM, but they didn't put it there- NT's did. Most of them do not consider Autism a disability or something to be fixed, but part of who they are, and suggesting that who they are is a disability is kind of ignorant, imho.
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Oh, well "relate to" can be taken any number of ways. I asked my fiance if the girl I work with and our friend who has Aspergers are easier to understand, and he said, "No, not at all." Based on the ASD folks I know/have worked with I would say their expressions are often misleading to what they're actually trying to convey, which would make it much harder to read them I'd imagine? The girl I work with often looks distraught or angry when she's really not at all. I also think when she's anxious she comes off as angry. And sometimes when she *is* upset, her body language is completely fine and you would never know something is wrong.

However, my friend who has Aspergers had a deaf best friend growing up, and he has said they grew to understand each other quite well, and at times didn't even use sign to communicate.

It's interesting to think about though. I guess it varies case-to-case. ASD for me is one of the hardest to understand diagnoses out there...I suppose that's why it's called a spectrum!
 
Grummer said:
Oh fuck what.no no no sign langauge is for Deaf, it was made up and used by deaf, what the HELLs wrong with you people? quaksters GTFO, stop meddling. We're not compariable to disabled groups...urgh this makes me sick.
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That's why I put "as a hearing person." Having experienced autism and its group, I personally found similarities between that experience and what I have heard/seen but not truly experienced about Deaf culture/deafness. I mentioned it because I felt I needed to say it.

I've been told by hearing people watching my ASL (for assignments, not necessarily conversation) that I need to use more facial expression. However, Deaf people I have talked to never said that they couldn't understand me/I needed to use more expression.

Personally, I don't think any two people can just automatically "relate to" each other, and I don't think Deaf people necessarily "relate to" a ASD person more than a hearing person would.
 
Well I am Deaf and an Aspie (Asperger's or High Functioning Autism). If you want similarities between the two. Both make us different but not necessarily Disabled. There is no pathological identification for Autism Spectrum Disorders ASD. there is also no cure because were are not broken, our brains are just wired different for NeuroTypical(NT) people. So when you are different from the majority of (normal) people you get to have some disease or label. Asperger's folks or those with HFA often hate Autism Speaks the same way Deaf hate AGBell and Oralism groups. They want to make us act "normal" so we "fit-in" We will never be what they precieve as normal. The various treatment and therapies for ASD are all about the person with ASD learning to role play, pretend or behave and act in what is should be normal. but this is very tiring and like living in a lie. Same as using only Oral/Audist methods of communication so you can fit-in and be like hearing people even though you are Deaf...

when trying to understand the characteristics of ASD of Deaf persons, change the words like "Non-Verbal" to "non-lingustic" and you will have a better understanding. I have the same communication/ eye contact, social language issues in ASL as I do in spoken English.

One reason Aspie's tend to like internet communication is because all non-linguistic features are removed from the interaction and we also have time to process the information before responding. Real time conversation is much harder for us. I am open about having ASD so i will be happy to answer any questions you have...
 
purplewowies said:
That's why I put "as a hearing person." Having experienced autism and its group, I personally found similarities between that experience and what I have heard/seen but not truly experienced about Deaf culture/deafness. I mentioned it because I felt I needed to say it.

I've been told by hearing people watching my ASL (for assignments, not necessarily conversation) that I need to use more facial expression. However, Deaf people I have talked to never said that they couldn't understand me/I needed to use more expression.

Personally, I don't think any two people can just automatically "relate to" each other, and I don't think Deaf people necessarily "relate to" a ASD person more than a hearing person would.
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The linguistic facial features of ASL are not the things that ASD person has problems with. the raised/lowered eyebrows with questions or pursed lips etc. are linguistic features of ASL that is why in my post about I mentioned referring to non-linguistic features. For example I tend to look down or away when signing to someone and use abnormal pauses in my signs *where my brain is processing what to say/sign". I often will not look at the person till I finish what I am saying.. also difficult for me to hold my gaze on them for a reply. My wife says I often turn away or start to walk away before I finish signing my thoughts... Empathy and emotion are difficult to understand and interpret and also expressed differently by ASD folks..
 
I agree with derek. We, in general, are more understanding of people with disabilities and more receptive to differences in communication. We also tend to be more patient, because we have experienced other people being impatient with us. We are also used to using several methods of communication, so we work with what works best in a given situation.

I do believe that ASL can work for some people with autism. Granted, the body language and facial intonation aspects may be more difficult for people with autism, but the core part of ASL is still useful. If it works for them, why not?

As for comparing, well, no two groups are exactly alike and no two people are exactly alike. Plus, each group has its own unique needs and experiences but we do have some common experiences, such as being looked down like freaks, discrimination, impatience from people who don't understand, etc.
 
I see this is a very old thread but as someone who is autistic (mostly nonverbal though I can physically say some words verbally) AND hard of hearing I have to say that my experience learning ASL has opened up a whole new world for me. I feel like I have a lot in common with Deaf folk I have met as an adult and definitely share some similarities to them and have made many friends in the community. I do communicate MUCH better in signing than in English and only just became more fluent in written English, I will probably never be fluent in spoken English. But I do definitely have much better ASL skills and am now going through college level ASL classes and seem to be progressing well. I have had several of my tutors say there is no reason I could not be fluent in ASL someday. Also, I am very good at understanding body language and always have been and understanding feelings very well. My issues come more from sensory differences that are neurological that make hearing things different for me than others. I am extra sensitive to everything around me. I have no difficulty relating to people in ASL though. Every autistic person is different. Many of us consider ourselves an ethnic minority similar to the way Deaf people consider themselves an ethnic minority. We don't see ourselves as "disabled" just because we don't communicate in the same ways neurotypical people do. And we also have cultural customs and practices. Anyway, just thought I would add to this as someone who is autistic.
 
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