Deaf Children and Signing

Thanks for the link; I saved it to my Bookmarks. :ty:
 
jillio said:
Only according to the oralist supporters, and the hearing community that has no understanding of the issues.
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There are responses ther from folks that are deaf as well. Perhaps you are considering them oralists :dunno:
 
jillio said:
What---you never heard of a deaf oralist? And not all the responses are negative.
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I understand that and I never said all responses were negative. It's just makes me wonder how it is that some deafies are content with the oral approach and yet there are still those that are against it. Seems to me that it's a matter of choice and who ever makes the choice may have good results with a happy outcome and some may not. Such is life in many aspects. It's really not for me or anyone to decide for someone else other than those we are responsible for. Live and let live.
 
rockdrummer said:
I understand that and I never said all responses were negative. It's just makes me wonder how it is that some deafies are content with the oral approach and yet there are still those that are against it. Seems to me that it's a matter of choice and who ever makes the choice may have good results with a happy outcome and some may not. Such is life in many aspects. It's really not for me or anyone to decide for someone else. Live and let live.
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Absolutely, its a matter of choice. However, when decisions are being made regarding communication methods, those choices are made by the parent. And if a child has been raised in an oral atmosphere all their lives, and have nothing to compare it to, how can they express dissatisfaction with the only thing they know?

And yes, there are oral successes out there. They are, however, few and far between. Most suffer some negative consequences to varying degrees.
 
jillio said:
Absolutely, its a matter of choice. However, when decisions are being made regarding communication methods, those choices are made by the parent. And if a child has been raised in an oral atmosphere all their lives, and have nothing to compare it to, how can they express dissatisfaction with the only thing they know?

And yes, there are oral successes out there. They are, however, few and far between. Most suffer some negative consequences to varying degrees.
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Based on my experience it's the parents and educators that get together to come up with a direction. Remember a young child (especially with no experience in any methods) is not very well equipped to make such a profound decision. I would also be interested in some stats on the negative consequences that you speak of. If a parent is to make an informed decision they really need access to information that is more than just someones opinion. It would be helpful to have a place or link where this information can be found.
 
rockdrummer said:
Based on my experience it's the parents and educators that get together to come up with a direction. Remember a young child (especially with no experience in any methods) is not very well equipped to make such a profound decision. I would also be interested in some stats on the negative consequences that you speak of. If a parent is to make an informed decision they really need access to information that is more than just someones opinion. It would be helpful to have a place or link where this information can be found.
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But, hasn't that decision been made prior to the child entering the educational system? If a child is diagnosed at the age of one, and has only been exposed to oral communication in the home for the years prior to entering the educational system, the decison has been made by proxy. And if a parent has decided to use the oral method at home, they will naturally be more than willing to accept such a recommendation from the educational system.
 
jillio said:
But, hasn't that decision been made prior to the child entering the educational system? If a child is diagnosed at the age of one, and has only been exposed to oral communication in the home for the years prior to entering the educational system, the decison has been made by proxy. And if a parent has decided to use the oral method at home, they will naturally be more than willing to accept such a recommendation from the educational system.
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That's a loaded question. In my view there are many more vairables in that process that you elude to most of which will depend on the parents involvement and how much they educate themselves on deafness.
 
rockdrummer said:
That's a loaded question. In my view there are many more vairables in that process that you elude to most of which will depend on the parents involvement and how much they educate themselves on deafness.
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How so....if they are using oral communication, haven't they decided to use oral communication?
 
Well I have my own case to go by. I really wish I had learnt BSL as a child. I grew up HOH so it was felt that I did not need it. I went on to develop a visual impairment which made sign language difficult to pick up visually. I know very basic sign language but I usually have to resort to finger spelling after a while when communicating to other deaf people. I do, however, find signing deaf people easier to communicate with. Even with my very basic signing.

I also went to a PHU which was actively oralist. That is they actively discouraged sign language. The children in that unit had no choice. Many of the children seemed to have communication difficulties even though most of them had some useful hearing at that unit. I don't think signing deaf have communication difficulties in the same way. They just use a differant language to communicate with.

I've also been to a mental health unit for the deaf in preston. Many of whom had very poor communication skills due to lack or a delay in learning sign language. There were deaf people who just couldn't communicate at all.
 
dreama said:
Well I have my own case to go by. I really wish I had learnt BSL as a child. I grew up HOH so it was felt that I did not need it. I went on to develop a visual impairment which made sign language difficult to pick up visually. I know very basic sign language but I usually have to resort to finger spelling after a while when communicating to other deaf people. I do, however, find signing deaf people easier to communicate with. Even with my very basic signing.

I also went to a PHU which was actively oralist. That is they actively discouraged sign language. The children in that unit had no choice. Many of the children seemed to have communication difficulties even though most of them had some useful hearing at that unit. I don't think signing deaf have communication difficulties in the same way. They just use a differant language to communicate with.

I've also been to a mental health unit for the deaf in preston. Many of whom had very poor communication skills due to lack or a delay in learning sign language. There were deaf people who just couldn't communicate at all.
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I'm glad you brought that up, dreama. There are certain forms of mental disturbances that are disproportionately prevalent in the deaf community, and it is believed that the constant stress of commuication difficulties is responsible. For example, there is a very wide discrepancy between oral deaf who have attempted to assimilate into the hearing world, and those who have a Deaf identity in diagnosed adjustment related mental illness. It is thought that the Deaf suffer fewer of these disorders because they are not under the constant stress of attempting to measure up to standards that are unreachable.
 
rockdrummer said:
Based on my experience it's the parents and educators that get together to come up with a direction. Remember a young child (especially with no experience in any methods) is not very well equipped to make such a profound decision. I would also be interested in some stats on the negative consequences that you speak of. If a parent is to make an informed decision they really need access to information that is more than just someones opinion. It would be helpful to have a place or link where this information can be found.
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Yea and no thanks to the oral specialists who pushed my mom into raising me oral. From what my mom tells me, they made it seem like to her that if I learned sign language, I would never grow up to be an independent adult so of course my mom was brainwashed a bit there and freaked her out so she put my brother and I in the oral-only program. My brother suffered 5 years of language deprivation until finally my mom had enough and placed him at the deaf school but since I "appeared" fine, I was kept in the oral only program. As a result, my self esteem and confidence in myself was nearly destroyed from years and years of people telling me this or that, putting me down, criticizing my speech and so many more.

I had no say in my educational approaches so as an adult, I have the power to educate people about the oral-only approach but apparently it is still strongly favored by those specialists who strongly believe that ASL will interfere with oral skill development and when deaf people in the profession try to put in their opinion and feedback, we are degraded as biased or deaf militants. Just like what happened here on AD when I tried to explain what the oral-only approach does to many deaf children but u saw what happened so that's the same thing that happens out there when deaf people who specialize in the field of deaf education voice their concerns and opinions. Something is wrong with the picture there.
 
jillio said:
I'm glad you brought that up, dreama. There are certain forms of mental disturbances that are disproportionately prevalent in the deaf community, and it is believed that the constant stress of commuication difficulties is responsible. For example, there is a very wide discrepancy between oral deaf who have attempted to assimilate into the hearing world, and those who have a Deaf identity in diagnosed adjustment related mental illness. It is thought that the Deaf suffer fewer of these disorders because they are not under the constant stress of attempting to measure up to standards that are unreachable.
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Yea and that's the very reason why I spent years in therapy after I was diagnosed with a mild eating disorder. The therapist concluded that my eating disorder came from my stress and having no control over my life after years of trying to measure up to those "hearing" standards. I came to the belief that if I was skinny and beautiful, nobody would care about my deafness and not make a big issue about it and as a result, I became dangerously underweight. Luckily, it did reach to the point where I needed to be hospitalized but I needed serious therapy. After therapy and going to Gallaudet which helped me accept my deafness, all of my urges to self destruct vanished!

Also, I want to add to that ...my brother and his friends who went to the deaf school had no issues of self identity and they all were happy with themselves as deaf people..lucky them!
 
shel90 said:
Yea and that's the very reason why I spent years in therapy after I was diagnosed with a mild eating disorder. The therapist concluded that my eating disorder came from my stress and having no control over my life after years of trying to measure up to those "hearing" standards. I came to the belief that if I was skinny and beautiful, nobody would care about my deafness and not make a big issue about it and as a result, I became dangerously underweight. Luckily, it did reach to the point where I needed to be hospitalized but I needed serious therapy. After therapy and going to Gallaudet which helped me accept my deafness, all of my urges to self destruct vanished!
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Exactly! And I want to thank you for sharing that painful part of your story, shel. It seems to be so darned difficult to get people to understand the the effects of an oral only environment ripple out and affect every aspect of a person's life. By you sharing the pain tha you have gone through, maybe at least one will have the light bulb go on.

I hear the same things from the deaf adolescents I work with that come from an oral only environment. I find it so frustrating because all they have gone through could have been prevented had those responsible just opened their eyes and looked at what was actually happening to the child. I keep telling peole that a signing happy well adjusted child is much preferable to a speaking neurotic unhappy child. But they just don't seem to get it.:dunno:
 
jillio said:
Exactly! And I want to thank you for sharing that painful part of your story, shel. It seems to be so darned difficult to get people to understand the the effects of an oral only environment ripple out and affect every aspect of a person's life. By you sharing the pain tha you have gone through, maybe at least one will have the light bulb go on.

I hear the same things from the deaf adolescents I work with that come from an oral only environment. I find it so frustrating because all they have gone through could have been prevented had those responsible just opened their eyes and looked at what was actually happening to the child. I keep telling peole that a signing happy well adjusted child is much preferable to a speaking neurotic unhappy child. But they just don't seem to get it.:dunno:
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And now CIs are used as their justification..oh boy. I am not against CIs and if they help great but to deny them sign language in the educational setting? Come on!
 
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