Deaf Baptists embrace unreached Deaf peoples

Reba said:
The salvation of mankind transcends any ethnicity. Salvation is available to every person on earth. It is to be shared, not to be limited.
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That statement in and of itself is ethnocentric and disturbing.
 
jillio said:
There are actually useful things that can be taught to these populations if one is truly concerned about their welfare. Teaching them that they are damned unless they accept a concept of a savior as determined by man is not one of those things.
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Each person is saved by Jesus who loved each person so much that he willingly died for each person. Jesus is not a concept of man. A mere concept of man could not do the things that Jesus did, and does, and will do.

It would be cruel to tell any person that he or she was damned without also telling them how to be saved from damnation.
 
Reba said:
The salvation of mankind transcends any ethnicity. Salvation is available to every person on earth. It is to be shared, not to be limited.
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People don't need you to save them. People don't need you to "guide" them in their determination of faith. People do not -need your standards- even if you are under the particularly strong delusion that everyone in the world must believe the same things you do to be "saved".

Views like yours are terrifying. Fundamentalists which see it as their calling to spread their religion are a current and present threat to every single population in the world's way of life, because you people don't see limits and believe everyone "must be reached" in order to be "saved" by your ideology.

I don't say this against missionary work because I am a hateful person, or because I think missionaries are all bad people. I think they are -deeply misguided- people who cannot appreciate the impact of their choices.
 
Reba said:
Each person is saved by Jesus who loved each person so much that he willingly died for each person. Jesus is not a concept of man. A mere concept of man could not do the things that Jesus did, and does, and will do.

It would be cruel to tell any person that he or she was damned without also telling them how to be saved from damnation.
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Oh, Jesus is most definately a concept of man.

And what if your solution to avoid damnation turns out to be so much superstition? How cruel is that?
 
jillio said:
Oh, Jesus is most definately a concept of man.

And what if your solution to avoid damnation turns out to be so much superstition? How cruel is that?
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She'll be dead and wont have to own up to supporting the destruction of real people's lives, real cultures, and real identities.
 
Aleser said:
People don't need you to save them. People don't need you to "guide" them in their determination of faith. People do not -need your standards- even if you are under the particularly strong delusion that everyone in the world must believe the same things you do to be "saved".

Views like yours are terrifying. Fundamentalists which see it as their calling to spread their religion are a current and present threat to every single population in the world's way of life, because you people don't see limits and believe everyone "must be reached" in order to be "saved" by your ideology.

I don't say this against missionary work because I am a hateful person, or because I think missionaries are all bad people. I think they are -deeply misguided- people who cannot appreciate the impact of their choices.
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And are so dedicated to their misguided nature as to be completely unwilling to realize how their delusion has a negative impact. But some are completely unwilling to take personal responsiblity for living an ethical and moral existence simply because it is the right thing to do, and so they need an outline and an instruction manual. Usually, they are also reluctant to make decisions on their own, and therefore have the need to rely on some perceived power to make their decisions for them.
 
jillio said:
It is an obviously loaded question intended to make an insinuation.:roll:
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From a hearing person, no less...

I do think she needs a hearing test, though. She doesn't seem to be able to hear the frequencies that house the words "check that privilege". Must be something wrong? :hmm:
 
jillio said:
And the reason for forcing oral language policies. "They must HEAR the word of God so they will not perish in hell", and all that stuff.
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That is incorrect. The Word of God was given to the Deaf thru signs.

Who said the souls of the Deaf should be ignored? I think the Deaf are perfectly capable of deciding what they should do about the fate of their soul. Should they desire salvation in the form of Baptist teachings, they are perfectly capable of seeking it out.
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How can they seek out someone of whom they've not yet heard? That's true for anyone, hearing or Deaf, rich or poor, all over the world.

The Deaf, like hearing, can decide what to do with Jesus, as they will.

I might ask, what makes you the keeper of the gate to the Deaf? Let the Deaf decide for themselves whether or not to accept Jesus.
 
Aleser said:
She'll be dead and wont have to own up to supporting the destruction of real people's lives, real cultures, and real identities.
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Good point. Again avoiding the responsibility for living a moral and ethical existence simply because it is the right thing to do.
 
Reba said:
That is incorrect. The Word of God was given to the Deaf thru signs.


How can they seek out someone of whom they've not yet heard? That's true for anyone, hearing or Deaf, rich or poor, all over the world.

The Deaf, like hearing, can decide what to do with Jesus, as they will.

I might ask, what makes you the keeper of the gate to the Deaf? Let the Deaf decide for themselves whether or not to accept Jesus.
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The numbers of Deaf who have not been exposed to some form of Christian ideology would be so minuscule as to be non-existent.

Exactly. Let them decide for themselves. Don't offer assistance where it has not been requested.:cool2:

I am the gate keeper of personal empowerment and choice. I took an oath. Again, let them decide for themselves. To assume they cannot is patonizing and insulting. Yet when you offer assistance where it has not been requested, that is exactly the assumption being made.
 
jillio said:
The numbers of Deaf who have not been exposed to some form of Christian ideology would be so minuscule as to be non-existent.
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That's not the case around the world.

Exactly. Let them decide for themselves. Don't offer assistance where it has not been requested.:cool2:
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It's called informed consent (or refusal). Information is necessary for an informed decision.

Don't you trust Deaf people to make their own decisions?
 
jillio said:
...I am the gate keeper of personal empowerment and choice. I took an oath. Again, let them decide for themselves. To assume they cannot is patonizing and insulting. Yet when you offer assistance where it has not been requested, that is exactly the assumption being made.
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I'm all for letting all people decide for themselves. That's the only way. A missionary presents the Gospel to Deaf and hearing people. It's up to the individual to make a choice.
 
Reba said:
That's not the case around the world.


It's called informed consent (or refusal). Information is necessary for an informed decision.

Don't you trust Deaf people to make their own decisions?
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Of course I trust them to make their own decisions. And, I support them in doing so. You, apparently, don't have the same faith in the Deaf's ability to decide for themselves as you do in man's description of a religious doctrine.

Why would you think that the good of the world is dependent upon Christian missionary work? There is virtually nothing to support that, other than faith based on stories that cannot be supported with evidence.
 
jillio said:
That statement in and of itself is ethnocentric and disturbing.
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It would be disturbing if one group selfishly kept it to themselves, and weren't willing to share with others.
 
Aleser said:
People don't need you to save them. People don't need you to "guide" them in their determination of faith. People do not -need your standards- even if you are under the particularly strong delusion that everyone in the world must believe the same things you do to be "saved".

Views like yours are terrifying. Fundamentalists which see it as their calling to spread their religion are a current and present threat to every single population in the world's way of life, because you people don't see limits and believe everyone "must be reached" in order to be "saved" by your ideology.

I don't say this against missionary work because I am a hateful person, or because I think missionaries are all bad people. I think they are -deeply misguided- people who cannot appreciate the impact of their choices.
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Ah, okay. I can't help myself here. But I will post one more comment... :P

Okay -- As a former Christian, I can see why Christians try to "save" people from Hell because they don't want to see them being burned alive after their death. I can see where they stand on their belief. It is easy to see them being "rude" to generally you when they try to "help" or "save" you when they're caring for, generally, your being well. Still, I don't agree with their own actions or their own words that they try to change someone's personal belief. That is what happened to me when someone really tried to make me go back to Christianity again, at dA. Yes, I understand her concern and I appreciated her for her caring. Still, it is not helpful if someone is upset for your departure and try to get you in a debate in order to "save" you. It is just too much.

Sighs. Well, a few Wiccans even told me that I will have to learn how to deal with them...
 
Reba said:
I'm all for letting all people decide for themselves. That's the only way. A missionary presents the Gospel to Deaf and hearing people. It's up to the individual to make a choice.
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And why is it that you think that presentation of the Gospel is something that the Deaf, or the hearing need? That is your belief and nothing more. There is no evidence to support the belief that this presentation, particularly when it has not been requested, is a need in any definition of the term.
 
Reba said:
I'm all for letting all people decide for themselves. That's the only way. A missionary presents the Gospel to Deaf and hearing people. It's up to the individual to make a choice.
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You can never take back the -choice- a missionary makes to come on your land and attempt to infiltrate your culture.

You can never take back the -choice- a missionary makes to expose your community and your children to their belief system.

Going to another culture, bringing a bible, and asking people to Just Listen Once is IN ITSELF forcing yourself upon them. It is ALREADY a nonconsensual violation of that person and culture's right to determine what is on their land and what information is part of their culture or myth system.

It is a violation that can -never ever- be taken back, even if the missionary returns home next week having Done Their Godly Duty.

You cannot comprehend that it is so much bigger than introducing people to an idea. It is infecting an idea into their culture without their informed consent. It is a violation of every person it touches, of every child who doesn't learn their own culture's myths because of the spread of the word of god, of every grandchild deprived of a cultural identity.

It doesn't just change one person's life or 19 people's lives, it is an act of violence against whole communities.
 
Reba said:
It would be disturbing if one group selfishly kept it to themselves, and weren't willing to share with others.
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No, it is disturbing when one group feels the need to force it on others. Sharing would follow a request.

It is disturbing when one group selfishly determines that their need to feel like a savior to the poor, ignorant savage is more important than freedom to make one's own choices without interference from those with a belief in their own superiority.
 
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