cochlear implants

This is what I am like pre-ci in 1999 I was anti-CI over at DN

Boult
Senior Member posted 07-25-1999 03:34 AM
Wake,
I am curious how much does it cost to have C.I. on your daughter? I believe you have wasted your daughter's college funds. since I assume it cost over ten thousands to have those device, operations, training programs and etc. Whereas your daughter could have gone to either hearing with special program for deaf or deaf school (day school or residental school). They are cheaper without C.I. And when your daughter graduate, then you could send her to a expensive college with that funds you spents into C.I. operations.
OR
You should have saved those money for her graduation gift! not C.I.

My Belief is that C.I. is great for hearing who suddenly lost their hearing from accident or from combat since they are hearing and not born deaf.

Your Daughter may be happy with it because she cannot think absract yet. She is too young to defend herself. I wondered if you have asked her if she wants one. You are lucky that she is still alive. If anything goes wrong.. you lose her and your money.

Communication requires loves and understanding not altering them to make them understand. If you both are very patient people then you should have taken your time to learn sign language and communicate with her and when she get older, she will learn speech no matter how deaf your daughter is. When she is adult, she would be speaking to you after all without a C.I.

I would rather let Nature take course than alter it.

Good Luck in future for your daughter.

Boult
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see how mean I was back then eh..

then Wake's reply was this
B
Boult posted 07-25-1999 03:34 AM

" Wake,

I am curious how much does it cost to have C.I. on
your daughter? I believe you have wasted your
daughter's college funds. since I assume it cost over
ten thousands to have those device, operations,
training programs and etc. Whereas your daughter
could have gone to either hearing with special
program for deaf or deaf school (day school or
residental school). They are cheaper without C.I."

reply: With the ci, our daughter will start out in the classroom
f for the deaf in the neighborhood school. She will
have instruction during part of the day in a special
auditory setting and another part of the day will
be voice off ASL. Probably by first grade she will be able t
to be fully mainstreamed. She will have a
desktop speaker FM system for listening to the teacher
and most likely a language facilatator or someone who can answer any questions that she may have. This person could even be someone who could use ASL to explain something
Gradually, she would end up with just a notetaker or
maybe she would not need any support in the classroom.
We are keeping all options open because we are unsure
what the distant future holds for her. Right now, we
know that she is a successful ci user. She can understand
what is being said to her on the phone if you use words
that are familiar to her, like "I love you." or "Are you
' having a happy day?" She was in a pre-school with hearing
children part time and did well. She was also in an ASL pre-school the other part of the week. We would like her to appreciate that we have continued learning ASL and will keep that door open for her, too.
Also,we have not spent her college money. We have dreams
of having her graduate from college. She could decide what
type of college to go to.
Some said that maybe parents want to give their children
all the tools available to be successful in life. That is
probably true. We want our child to be happy with all the
doors that we are leaving open for her.


" My Belief is that C.I. is great for hearing who
suddenly lost their hearing from accident or from
combat since they are hearing and not born deaf."

reply: Yes it is probably easier to make the decision
for someone to have a ci in the situations you
described.

"You are lucky that she is still alive. If
anything goes wrong.. you lose her and your money."

Reply: I am not sure if you mean that she could die because
of the ci. I never heard of that.

" Communication requires loves and understanding
not altering them to make them understand. If you
both are very patient people then you should have
taken your time to learn sign language and
communicate with her and when she get older, she
will learn speech no matter how deaf your daughter
is. When she is adult, she would be speaking to you
after all without a C.I. "

From what I understand, it is very difficult for a
deaf person to learn to talk unless they have enough
residual hearing... I met a girl with about the same
decibel level as my daughter and it took 4 years to
learn to say about 4 words.


"I would rather let Nature take course than alter it."

I respect you view!

Sorry for the long post.
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After that I said nothing... then I started researching... and learned that it does not require their daughter's college money to cover the surgery. I learned that it can be done with insurance. Or even by charities.

Then I went from there for 2 years and in 2001-2 I decided to go for it then in 2003 I made history.

Now here I am saying my surgery is covered by insurance.

I know I said "I would rather let Nature take course than alter it. " I figure if I did that, I would not be enjoying more as I am today. So I alter so I can enjoy more. It's been wonderful so far!
 
Boult said:
This is what I am like pre-ci in 1999 I was anti-CI over at DN



see how mean I was back then eh..

then Wake's reply was this


After that I said nothing... then I started researching... and learned that it does not require their daughter's college money to cover the surgery. I learned that it can be done with insurance. Or even by charities.

Then I went from there for 2 years and in 2001-2 I decided to go for it then in 2003 I made history.

Now here I am saying my surgery is covered by insurance.

I know I said "I would rather let Nature take course than alter it. " I figure if I did that, I would not be enjoying more as I am today. So I alter so I can enjoy more. It's been wonderful so far!
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very well said...

I was also anti-CI back in late 90's to 2002. then i was considering to get one..

here i go i got it.

now to me CI isn't a big deal. i'm in both worlds.. and both worlds accept me.
 
My CI was paid for by the Cochlear corp itself as I was part of their clinical trials for the Freedom. I wasn't "taking money'" out of anybody's pockets, thank you very much.
 
^Angel^ said:
Wow, I'm surprise you actually had to post at me, when I tried to get those two to hear where the others were coming from, and I'm very much aware that CI isn't for everyone


And I strongly believe that parents have the right to choose what sort of devices they would want for their deaf children to wear....
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If you're referring to me, it's obvious you have not been reading my posts!

Why do you think it's the parents' right to cut their children open? I believe it's cruel.

Oh and where were YOUR links??
 
gnulinuxman said:
If you're referring to me, it's obvious you have not been reading my posts!

Why do you think it's the parents' right to cut their children open? I believe it's cruel.

Oh and where were YOUR links??
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Just one question, are you wish that children have rights to choice if want CI or not?
 
gnulinuxman said:
If you're referring to me, it's obvious you have not been reading my posts!

Why do you think it's the parents' right to cut their children open? I believe it's cruel.

Oh and where were YOUR links??
Click to expand...


It seem to me you can't even read anyone's posts but have to attack them all the time, second parents has the right to choose what best for their children if you don't like it too darn bad , deal with it cause they're not your children
 
TrippLA said:
Just one question, are you wish that children have rights to choice if want CI or not?
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Yes because once the surgery is done, it can't be undone without permanent damage to the kid's head.

^Angel^ said:
It seem to me you can't even read anyone's posts but have to attack them all the time, second parents has the right to choose what best for their children if you don't like it too darn bad , deal with it cause they're not your children
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Are you saying that parents own their children like they own their TV set or computer or car? Believe it or not, PARENTS ARE NOT PERFECT, they do NOT always know what's best for their children, and what Sweetmind and I are getting at is that parents are often NOT informed fully before implanting their children. But the way you are wording this, you are talking about children as if they're objects that need to be fixed rather than as human beings who are unique.
 
I believe that parents of deaf children have the right to make a decisions on behalf on their children along as meeting other parents of deaf children from a several backgrounds and experiences and to recognize the successful benefit of early language and to get as much information as they can before making a decision of implanting their children with CI, many parents has done so, and there are many deaf children who has successful benefit from the use of the implant, when out of a few may not benefit from the use of the implant....

Since cochlear implant is a tool that can provide sounds with the hope of having the deaf child develop their language skills and the ability to communicate well with others and some hearing parents has continued to learn sign language for their deaf children and still being part of the deaf community...
 
^Angel^ said:
I believe that parents of deaf children have the right to make a decisions on behalf on their children along as meeting other parents of deaf children from a several backgrounds and experiences and to recognize the successful benefit of early language and to get as much information as they can before making a decision of implanting their children with CI, many parents has done so, and there are many deaf children who has successful benefit from the use of the implant, when out of a few may not benefit from the use of the implant....

Since cochlear implant is a tool that can provide sounds with the hope of having the deaf child develop their language skills and the ability to communicate well with others and some hearing parents has continued to learn sign language for their deaf children and still being part of the deaf community...
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While I may not agree with you 100%, I am glad you started explaining yourself better now. At least now you're helping people like me understand where you're coming from.
 
gnulinuxman said:
Yes because once the surgery is done, it can't be undone without permanent damage to the kid's head.


Are you saying that parents own their children like they own their TV set or computer or car? Believe it or not, PARENTS ARE NOT PERFECT, they do NOT always know what's best for their children, and what Sweetmind and I are getting at is that parents are often NOT informed fully before implanting their children. But the way you are wording this, you are talking about children as if they're objects that need to be fixed rather than as human beings who are unique.
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Yea, I agree with you. :)
 
gnulinuxman said:
Are you saying that parents own their children like they own their TV set or computer or car? Believe it or not, PARENTS ARE NOT PERFECT, they do NOT always know what's best for their children, and what Sweetmind and I are getting at is that parents are often NOT informed fully before implanting their children. But the way you are wording this, you are talking about children as if they're objects that need to be fixed rather than as human beings who are unique.
Click to expand...


Yes I has to agree with you that every parents are not prefect. I only make decision for any important things, rules, emergencies etc for my children...
 
gnulinuxman said:
Yes because once the surgery is done, it can't be undone without permanent damage to the kid's head.........
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My daughter was profound deaf. With CI she will be at a level of HOH or Hearing. Removing the CI will make her...... profound deaf.
Where's the permanent damage?
 
Yes because once the surgery is done, it can't be undone without permanent damage to the kid's head.
Click to expand...

To the author of the quote:

Could you please explain WHAT KIND of damage is done to the head?

Please, nobody else explain- I want o hear it from the author.

Fuzzy
 
Just one question, are you wish that children have rights to choice if want CI or not?
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind I say my opinion.

As a mother myself, I can see children can not make some important decisions for themselves for many years to come. They don't have that kind of wisdom yet.

CI is that kind of choice that unfortunately falls on the parent to do that for the child.
It is very important that anyone who discuss implanting children understand how the language, speech and hearing is developing in EVERY human.

Children are NOT born with ability to distinguish sounds. Nor they can speak right away. they can hear sounds, yes - but they do not know yet what they are, they can make sounds but they can not make right sounds yet.
It take years to learn to speak, and it takes time to learn to HEAR, meaning to differentiate sounds and recognize what they are.
That crucial time is from birth to 3 years of age,
After that it is over. You can learn but not as much- in fact much less.

You have to take that under consideration - the best time for learning is between age 0- 3, so ... there is not much choice. Keep that in mind when discussin children choices.

This is why some choices can not be left for children to do..

Fuzzy


some links to read:
http://www.drpaul.com/growth/hearing.html

mind this: The first two year is the time during which hearing develops in children.

http://widex-master.dynamicweb.dk/Default.asp?ID=227

language development:
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/speechandlanguage.asp

mind this:
The most intensive period of speech and language development for humans is during the first three years of life, a period when the brain is developing and maturing. These skills appear to develop best in a world that is rich with sounds, sights, and consistent exposure to the speech and language of others.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
To the author of the quote:

Could you please explain WHAT KIND of damage is done to the head?

Please, nobody else explain- I want o hear it from the author.

Fuzzy
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Well, what do YOU think? The surgery involves drilling into the head and damages any residual hearing. That's what damage I'm talking about.
 
Well, what do YOU think? The surgery involves drilling into the head and damages any residual hearing. That's what damage I'm talking about.
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Where exactly in the head do they drill the hole? How big is this hole? how deep is the hole? Is the residual hearing any good anyway? why do they damage residual hearing? please, I'd like to know..


Fuzzy
 
There is no "hole in the head" after drilling. Surgeon drill the outside layer of the skull for embedding the implant. So that's not making hole. Surgeon does drill into mastoid bone to make cochlea accessible for insertion of electrode array into cochlea.

after the surgeon is done, you don't see hole. :dunno:

AudioFuzzy, please find my post in other threads regarding the residual hearing loss after implantation. (hint: cochlea is fluid filled) click on my name and select "find more posts by" me.

Of course, deaf person is deaf to begin with regardless of residual hearing. That's why there is criteria to qualify for CI is that if you CANT benefit from Hearing aid then the residual hearing is not there. If you CAN benefit from hearing aid then chance are that there is plenty of residual hearing left then the client will be suggested to go the hearing aid route till his/her hearing loss worsen and lose all of residual hearing over the year.

In other word residual hearing are NOT greatest tools for those struggling to hear with hearing aid because not all of cillia in cochlea are NOT there as standard in the process of child development. For example, I have tiny residual hearing in the low frequencies in range of 250 to 400hz at 70db that's it. and have none in rest of frequencies that goes up to high frequency. It is as if the area in my cochlea where cillia are like a field of grass mowed down leaving both side a little left over cillia.
 
gnulinuxman said:
Well, what do YOU think? The surgery involves drilling into the head and damages any residual hearing. That's what damage I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

But the whole point for implanting a CI (and the medical criteria for it) is that there is not enough residual hearing to begin with to be of any benefit! If they remove a CI after implantation - nothing's been changed in terms of residual hearing because there was none to work with before the implant even occured. You can't damage what wasn't there.
 
medicine and future of deaf culture

Hi All,

This is fascinating, I will admit one thing before I go on, some of you will find my post rather choppy, so apologise for that, it is just intend to note a couple of things

Cloggy said:
Thanks for the info. Nice to learn more about you.
Allow me to comment inside the quote:

And the last sentence is the key word for me. It's never too late to switch off the CI and immerge in the d/Deaf world. But it doesn't work the other way. It might be too late to choose CI and immerge in the hearing world.

I respect your views, and I have met deaf people that can communicate like you. Options available to parents with deaf children change in time. 20 years ago our decision might have been different, like the decision of your parents.
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just fascinating, like this reflects the faith in science, which is akin to normative ideology, in other words it is still the medicalisation of deafness. Observing that is when you say 'Options available" in this respect, it is to refer to the hearing way to deal with deafness. What I am trying to say is parents tend to quickly to jump to the hearist 'solutions' available. Ok I am aware you even let your girl learn signs and spend 3 days a week in deaf kindy, so from that I wish not to *lash* at you because I do recognise you Do care for her you want the *best* for her, and Are being open minded, it's good :) just wish to point out, that you sometimes need to avoid being careless to omit the available 'deaf' options... its mainly an unconscious way to say what *we know* or regarded in what we are exposed to understand.....

highlands said:
As technology progress more, the pure deaf people will be more and more rare.. what a pity.. the world will miss deaf culture much more than that of now... More deaf person will be able to function in hearing world ... hoh culture will be more common.. pure deafness and its culture may begin to disappear slowly
.
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I find highland's vision even more interesting...

I can see how and why parents/doctors tend to rush their babies and children to receive implants, it is alot to do with language development ( and I dont mean just speech, signs too) there is what they call 'critical language acquisition period'.

as for that with more and more CI surgery is being carried out to little deaf children, its quite possible......that a societal mutation of the cultural kind within the deaf community could eventuate

cheers for now
 
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