Cochlear decison

[jillio]

This is not a good thing. This is what any kids with CIs find difficult in the classroom. This issue of a wall of noise has been frequently discussed.

This is what any deaf child with any assistive device finds difficult in the classroom,( or in any situation other than a testing booth) and it is just this that determines the difference between discriminating and perceiving.

 

[jillio]

To a degree, yes. He absolutely loves having stories read/signed to him, and he often tells me what's going to happen before I turn the page (if it's a book he's read before). Or sometimes if he's experienced something recently, he'll reenact it with minimal signs.

Sounds like he is moving right along as he should be.

 

[Mountain Man]

Maybe it's just me, but I think she is speaking of "sound perception", and you are speaking of "hearing". She is simply misusing the word "hearing". At least that is what the responses you are getting seem to indicate.

It's possible, but she did later say that her daughter "hears all the sounds that you do, likely many more", which makes me think I didn't misunderstand her meaning the first time around.

 

[GrendelQ]

I'm honestly not seeing a difference between what you said and what I said you said.

"full access to speech sounds at the levels of a typical hearing child" = "can hear speech sounds with the same fidelity as a typical hearing person"

*shrug*

Well, you used the terms 'hearing' and 'fidelity', did you do so without meaning anything by it? You keep making the accusation that I'm claiming access to sound via CIs is the same as or better than what a typical hearing person experiences. I'm not, and I've repeatedly differentiated that, so far as to avoid even using the term 'hearing' as much as possible when describing what she's doing.

Saying "with the same fidelity as a typical hearing person" would mean that the sounds as heard by both would be exactly the same quality. They aren't. My child's has the ability to detect the speech sounds easily. They aren't the same quality as speech sounds as heard by a hearing child. Plus, she detects, at the same level, many more sounds (hair moving, feet shuffling, kids talking outside the window) that you and I filter out.

 

[jillio]

It's possible, but she did later say that her daughter "hears all the sounds that you do, likely many more", which makes me think I didn't misunderstand her meaning the first time around.

True that. Frankly, I am rather confused about exactly what she is saying.

 

[jillio]

Well, you used the term hearing and 'fidelity', did you do so without meaning anything by it? You keep making the accusation that I'm claiming access to sound via CIs is the same as or better than what a typical hearing person experiences. I'm not, and I've repeatedly differentiated that, so far as to avoid even using the term 'hearing' as much as possible when describing what she's doing.

Saying "with the same fidelity as a typical hearing person" would mean that the sounds as heard by both would be exactly the same quality. They aren't. My child's has the ability to detect the speech sounds easily. They aren't the same quality as speech sounds as heard by a hearing child. Plus, she detects, at the same level, many more sounds (hair moving, feet shuffling, kids talking outside the window) that you and I filter out.

Actually, we perceive those, too. Every hearing person does. We simply learn not to pay attention to them.

 

[Mountain Man]

Sounds like he is moving right along as he should be.

Except that he generally doesn't set things up, so he'll run up to us, whip out some classifiers, use them to tell a story about someone doing something and something else came over and did something to the person and it was really funny, and then he's off again, and sometimes we have no idea what he just told us! It's adorable, though.

 

[jillio]

Except that he generally doesn't set things up, so he'll run up to us, whip out some classifiers, use them to tell a story about someone doing something and something else came over and did something to the person and it was really funny, and then he's off again, and sometimes we have no idea what he just told us! It's adorable, though.

I have a 4year old great nephew that does the same thing with words! He will excitedly run up and jabber on about something one of his brothers or sisters just did, and no one has any idea what he is talking about!

 

[GrendelQ]

Actually, we perceive those, too. Every hearing person does. We simply learn not to pay attention to them.

When I use my monitors on her CIs, such sounds seem much more intrusive because some CI programming increases the volume of soft sounds bringing them 'closer.' So even though I normally wouldn't attend to the sound of my own hair or the washer in the other room, listening to her CI monitor brings them to the forefront.

 

[Mountain Man]

You keep making the accusation that I'm claiming access to sound via CIs is the same as or better than what a typical hearing person experiences.

Because that's exactly what you said:

"...she hears all the sounds that you do, likely many more."

My child's has the ability to detect the speech sounds easily. They aren't the same quality as speech sounds as heard by a hearing child.

This is precisely what I've been saying, so why are you arguing?

 

[Bottesini]

Ironic it's just a large group of hearing people arguing meanly about what HA or CI hears.

I would rather hear from the kids . Or even the grown up kids who actually use them.

None of you really know.

 

[Mountain Man]

When I use my monitors on her CIs, such sounds seem much more intrusive because some CI programming increases the volume of soft sounds bringing them 'closer.' So even though I normally wouldn't attend to the sound of my own hair or the washer in the other room, listening to her CI monitor brings them to the forefront.

Same thing happens with hearing aids. What's happening is that all sound is being indiscriminately amplified forcing the brain to work harder to pick useful information out of the "wall of sound". That's why some days my son just doesn't want to wear his hearing aids, and frankly, I don't blame him.

 

[deafskeptic]

The deaf community, in general, is brutally honest. That is why so many hearing take offense at what they have to say.

The type of anecdote that is the least reliable is that which contains inherent bias, such as the report from a parent regarding a child's performance. Everyone thinks their child is a genius, and performing in the 99th percentile. But the factual perspective is that very, very few children will actually prove to have genius level IQ and only 2% of all children perform in the 99th percentile. The laws of probablity say that my child, or anyone else's child, is more likely not to be a genius or to perform in a manner so far outside the norm than they are to be in that very small group. This is particularly so if that child has suffered any form of deprivation in their infancy.

I got 99% on my SAT-HI lvl 6 for several years in the English and reading section (dont' recall exactly if it was reading or English to be honest) but I wasn't so good at math and no one would ever consider me genius. Gifted perhaps - genuis no.

But when I took the SAT, I got 10 grade reading lvl. The reason why? I bombed the phonics section.

 

[Mountain Man]

Ironic it's just a large group of hearing people arguing meanly about what HA or CI hears.

I would rather hear from the kids . Or even the grown up kids who actually use them.

You mean this?

 

[AlleyCat]

Ironic it's just a large group of hearing people arguing meanly about what HA or CI hears.

I would rather hear from the kids . Or even the grown up kids who actually use them.

None of you really know.

That's exactly what I had been thinking. That's why I was incredulous on the previous page. I have NO idea myself, as a deaf person, how natural my sounds are with my HAs. So there's no way for a hearing parent to even guess if their child's CI sounds natural or not. What do you compare it to, especially if deaf since birth? I could see late-deafened users having something to compare to, but it's probably not the same for all.

 

[GrendelQ]

Because that's exactly what you said:

"...she hears all the sounds that you do, likely many more."



This is precisely what I've been saying, so why are you arguing?

Well, that's interesting. You lopped off the bit just before that sentence (as well as all the discussion about CIs picking up 'too much sound') in other posts:

But please read more carefully before accusing me of claiming my daughter has the hearing of a typical hearing child. She is deaf. I said she has access to sound at the same level -- that's something that can be measured and is a fact. It doesn't mean she hears just like you do or processes that sound like you do. ...

This is not claiming that access to sound via CIs is the same as or better than what a typical hearing person experiences.

 

[naisho]

Thanks for clarifying, Mountain Man.

Ironic it's just a large group of hearing people arguing meanly about what HA or CI hears.

I would rather hear from the kids . Or even the grown up kids who actually use them.

None of you really know.

That's why I would hope to see more posts from CI users around here, but a lot of them (newcomers) get shooed off pretty quickly when it comes to discussions.

That's exactly what I had been thinking. That's why I was incredulous on the previous page. I have NO idea myself, as a deaf person, how natural my sounds are with my HAs. So there's no way for a hearing parent to even guess if their child's CI sounds natural or not. What do you compare it to, especially if deaf since birth? I could see late-deafened users having something to compare to, but it's probably not the same for all.

In my case, I grew up unilateral, so I could experiment with how it sounded on my deaf side vs my slightly impaired normal side. As a child, my old man constantly would test me by closing one ear and listening to music or radio broadcasts and asked of me what did I hear, and what did it sound like out of curiosity. I would tell him my description of the sounds or transmission.

I think the reality to this is, only the later deafened can be able to distinguish between 'quality' of HA and CI.

 

[GrendelQ]

I still have no idea what you're objecting to. All I've done is state the facts. Why does this make you so angry?

Well, I'm not angry. But I think what you are doing is sad, and belies a real insecurity.

I've seen some very open and varied responses from a few parents with experience making this same decision -- none telling the OP to 'go for it!' or pushing CIs as an option, just sharing what they did and found. Some responses from those with CIs themselves. And then, instead of coming in with your own example of how you are making your choice work, you went through each previous parents' response and dismissed them as not being typical, and even went to far -- in my case -- to object to test results indicating an access to sound at typical hearing levels. You haven't shown objective facts that you used to make your choice, you are quoting numbers of channels on a simulator.

Why not let each person post about making the decision or using implants or hearing aids (or neither) describe what he or she experienced without attacking or criticizing or dismissing what they say about their own experience?

 

[Mountain Man]

Well, that's interesting. You lopped off the bit just before that sentence (as well as all the discussion about CIs picking up 'too much sound') in other posts:

But please read more carefully before accusing me of claiming my daughter has the hearing of a typical hearing child. She is deaf. I said she has access to sound at the same level -- that's something that can be measured and is a fact. It doesn't mean she hears just like you do or processes that sound like you do. ...

This is not claiming that access to sound via CIs is the same as or better than what a typical hearing person experiences.

Well then it appears you made contradictory statements, and I picked the "wrong" horn of the contradiction to take issue with. Fair enough. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Mountain Man]

Why not let each person post about making the decision or using implants or hearing aids (or neither) describe what he or she experienced without attacking or criticizing or dismissing what they say about their own experience?

I do not consider it "attacking or criticizing or dismissing" to state the facts in response to incorrect information.