CIA Report

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Lighthouse77 said:
if they ever decide to make last term abortion illegal again, is it ok for us to list all the people who performed late term abortion, even punish them? Even if it was legal then?

I'm ok with Obama ending what he think is torture, but exposing people like that when they thought it was the best thing to do is just wrong. I think some people would be afraid to work for the gov't now knowing that everything they do will just come back and bite them.
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:gpost:
 
Foxrac said:
Any comment about regards to my post that I was explain about no one will go after on Bush over torture issue?
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not much to say. we both have already covered the ground why there will be no prosecution nor criminal investigation. :cool2:
 
ASLGAL said:
Again, the interrogation techniques (NOT torture) were examined, presented, signed off on, and so on by many people - Dem and Rep.
I know it is difficult for many to wrap their brains around the fact that one man (Bush) cannot and did not singlehandedly put the techniques into play. That is supposed to be the beauty of a Republic with three equal branches.
Obama is not likely to , although he had done so since his campaigning, throw his entire Congresscritter contingent under the bus.

Smoke and mirrors seem to be this administrations most successful tools so far.
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Just like the previous administration.....
 
Lighthouse77 said:
if they ever decide to make last term abortion illegal again, is it ok for us to list all the people who performed late term abortion, even punish them? Even if it was legal then?

I'm ok with Obama ending what he think is torture, but exposing people like that when they thought it was the best thing to do is just wrong. I think some people would be afraid to work for the gov't now knowing that everything they do will just come back and bite them.
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That is a very different situation. You are talking about going back and prosecuting someone for something in the past because a law has changed now. The point here is that it was against the law when it was done.
 
jillio said:
That is a very different situation. You are talking about going back and prosecuting someone for something in the past because a law has changed now. The point here is that it was against the law when it was done.
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How so? Please back up your allegation.
 
jillio said:
That is a very different situation. You are talking about going back and prosecuting someone for something in the past because a law has changed now. The point here is that it was against the law when it was done.
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I wonder if the statue of limitations has run out on this situation.......:hmm:
 
Byrdie714 said:
I wonder if the statue of limitations has run out on this situation.......:hmm:
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Good question. I'd say that for things like this there is a faily long statute of limitations, but I really have no idea of the exact length of time.
 
So the charge is that the actions were illegal at the time they were committed, and not that they are trying to enforce a law ex post facto?
 
Reba said:
So the charge is that the actions were illegal at the time they were committed, and not that they are trying to enforce a law ex post facto?
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I can't believe you actually asked that.
 
jillio said:
Read a law book. Study some social psych of justice.
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Telling me to read a law book to understand your point of view? Very weak argument there.

Again, please backup your allegation. Point out where in the law books that Bush broke.
 
ASLGAL said:
Again, the interrogation techniques (NOT torture) were examined, presented, signed off on, and so on by many people - Dem and Rep.
I know it is difficult for many to wrap their brains around the fact that one man (Bush) cannot and did not singlehandedly put the techniques into play. That is supposed to be the beauty of a Republic with three equal branches.
Obama is not likely to , although he had done so since his campaigning, throw his entire Congresscritter contingent under the bus.

Smoke and mirrors seem to be this administrations most successful tools so far.
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No, I am well aware that it´s not just Bush but Bush and his companions who authorited the torture/mistreatment...

Perhap for you but I see different including over half of Americans and many countries around the world as well.
 
Jiro said:
Liebling - please give it up. Let this thread die. If you really want to some people within Bush Administration to be prosecuted... then you do understand that there will be many politicians (Democrats, Republicans, Senators, Congressmen, etc.) who will be investigated for their involvement in this issue? That also means Obama Administration will be investigated as well because there are some people in it from Bush Administration and during that time.

Simple - The Senate Committee & Congress will make sure this will not happen again.
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Yes I am well aware but it is about justice. They must have known that it´s wrong but why they continue do that?

Look at Nazi time, almost all of leaders and officers who work for Hitler were also prosecuted and excuted by Nuremberg trail, too. I :applause: Nuermberg trail for stand on justice´s side.

Huh? what do with Obama admin? Obama did publically state that waterboarding & other form of harsh interrogation techniques is a torture and have it all banned under his admin.

Don´t you know that over half of Americans want Bush and his companians prosecuted?

Do you expect us ignore or forget over his past lie cost over 4,000 US soldiers´ life and hundred thousands Iraqis´life because there´re no connection between 9/11 and Iraq, and also WMD as well... and also kipnap detainees from different countries and torture them... Many muslim, Iraqis and arabs are victim of Bush Admin.´s political games... :mad: We owe victim´s families after what and how Bush Admin. did.

Do you expect everyone give up and move on after what and how Bush and his companians did?


 
Spanish judge opens Guantanamo investigation

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer Daniel Woolls, Associated Press Writer – Wed Apr 29, 12:40 pm ET

MADRID – A Spanish judge opened a probe into the Bush administration over alleged torture of terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, pressing ahead Wednesday with a drive that Spain's own attorney general has said should be waged in the United States, if at all.

Judge Baltasar Garzon, Spain's most prominent investigative magistrate, said he is acting under this country's observance of the principle of universal justice, which allows crimes allegedly committed in other countries to be prosecuted in Spain.

He said documents declassified by the new U.S. government suggest the practice was systematic and ordered at high levels of the US government.

Garzon's move is separate from a complaint by human rights lawyers that seeks charges against six specific Bush administration officials they accuse of creating a legal framework to permit torture of suspects at Guantanamo Bay and other U.S. detention facilities.

Spanish prosecutors said on April 17 that any such probe should be carried out by the U.S. and recommended against it being launched in Spain. Their opinion has been endorsed by Attorney General Candido Conde-Pumpido. Garzon originally had that case, but ultimately it was transferred to another judge, who has yet to decide whether to investigate.

Now, Garzon is opening a separate, broader probe that does not name any specific suspects but targets "possible material authors" of torture, accomplices and those who gave torture orders.

Garzon is acting on his own, rather than in response to a complaint filed with the National Court, which is the usual procedure for universal justice probes in Spain.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, speaking with reporters in Berlin before the investigation was announced, did not rule out cooperating with such an investigation.

"Obviously, we would look at any request that would come from a court in any country and see how and whether we should comply with it," Holder said.

"This is an administration that is determined to conduct itself by the rule of law and to the extent that we receive lawful requests from an appropriately-created court, we would obviously respond to it," he said.

Asked if that meant the U.S. would cooperate with a foreign court prosecuting Bush administration officials, Holder said he was talking about evidentiary requests, and would review any such request to see if the United States would comply.

In a 10-page writ, Garzon said documents on Bush-era treatment of prisoners, recently declassified by the Obama administration, "reveal what had been just an intuition: an authorized and systematic plan of torture and mistreatment of persons denied freedom without any charge whatsoever and without the rights enjoyed by any detainee."

Garzon cited media accounts of the documents and said he would ask the U.S. to send the documents to him.

The judge wrote that abuses at Guantanamo and other U.S. prisons for terror suspects, such as the American air base at Bagram, Afghanistan, suggest "the existence of a concerted plan to carry out a multiplicity of crimes of torture."

He said this plan took on "almost an official nature and therefore entails criminal liability in the different structures of execution, command, design and authorization of this systematic plan of torture."

He said he also is acting on the basis of accounts by four former Guantanamo inmates who have alleged in Spanish courts that they were tortured at that U.S. prison in eastern Cuba.

All four were once accused of belonging to a Spanish al-Qaida cell but eventually cleared of the accusations. One is a Spanish citizen, another is a Moroccan citizen who has lived in Spain for more than a decade, and the other two are residents of Britain.

Spanish judge opens Guantanamo investigation



 
Just like the previous administration.....
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I do not believe so, but you can certainly state so Byrdie.

How so? Please back up your allegation.
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Good question, and the answer is..No, it wasn't illegal.

Bush did not lie.
There certainly were WMD's.
To prosecute 'Bush and his companions' would include Democrats including possibly Obama.
and lastly, Only speaking for myself. I do not care what skewed ideas other countries have about Bush, Obama, or America(ns). I would love it if Germany, for example, were to kick out their leader and place Obama there. I think the blinded love fest would quickly wear off.
 
SoS said:
Telling me to read a law book to understand your point of view? Very weak argument there.

Again, please backup your allegation. Point out where in the law books that Bush broke.
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Again. Read a law book. Study some social psych of justice. I'm not telling you to read a law book so you will adopt my point of view. I am telling you that you need to inform yourself of the implications before you make a definitive statement. I have pointed you to the source. It isn't my job to spoon feed it to you. It is up to you to educate yourself.....or not.:cool2:
 
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