CI on 6 year old.

shel90 said:
No need to put down the deaf community based on each person's reactions..thanks.
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And yet - you are putting Cloggy down because he is a loving, caring parent wanting only the best for his Daughter, who appears (from what he has told us, and what he and I have spoken about) very well adjusted, happy and healthy!

Rick said it best - Cloggy - keep doing what you are doing, because you are obviously doing something RIGHT!!! I applaud you, and hope you will continue to share your experiences as the parent of a deaf child AND the parent of a child who CAN hear with a CI. She has the best of both worlds right now - perhaps THAT is what some people find so frightening.
 
jillio said:
It is not a matter of being intolerant for differing views or of parents of deaf children. I am the parent of a deaf child and the only disrespect I have received on this board came from other hearing parents of deaf children, not from the Deaf posters.

The posters on this board, while some do not have CI and do not advocate for CI on children, are not intolerant of those who make that choice. They are intolerant of the attitude that is presented that implies that CI users are superior to non CI users, that spoken language is superior to signed language, and that parents who allow their children to experinece their deafness as a complete part of their identity are less effective and negligent intheir parenting. It is not your viepoint that irritates people, IT IS YOUR ATTITUDE!
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Sorry - not once have I seen, on this board a "superior" attitude portrayed by ANYONE who has a CI, or who has a child implanted with a CI. If anything, we try to bend over backwards to educate those who don't understand.

And for that we're attacked, we're called names, we're insulted, told to leave, told to "sit down and shut up" as if we are non-entities simply because we either have personal or "up close and personal" experiences with CI.

i think its a double standard that needs to stop.
 
beetarehoh said:
Cloggy-To be honest with you, most of your comments are not believable because you observe as a parent. There is much more for me to say but if I start then this will become turmoil with you so forget it. Your arguments are worthless to me and who knows of how many other people agrees. So if you want to talk about hearing and goals talk with someone who agrees with you, because I dont see any success with your comments. And I am not to reject the CI users because they are the ones that actually experience hearing the hearing people. With all due respect, shut up and sit in the back seat let the CI users, HA users and deaf friendlies drive!
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good post... I agree with you completely...Cloggy needs to shut up and really listen to our opinions..instead of making up more lies....
 
Cloggy said:
SO... observing as a parent of a deaf child makes anything said not believable. Observing as a parent of a deaf child that can hear with Ci, that's not just unbelievable, that's actually worthless.

Just remembered what I am doing here.....
So this is "with all respect..."
Would hate to hear you talking without respect.....
Little final question... do you speak this way with anyone that disagrees with you ??

But thanks for your post, I am getting a better picture of the social-emotional problems that DD mentioned ....
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And this is the attidue of which I speak.
 
neecy said:
Sorry - not once have I seen, on this board a "superior" attitude portrayed by ANYONE who has a CI, or who has a child implanted with a CI. If anything, we try to bend over backwards to educate those who don't understand.

And for that we're attacked, we're called names, we're insulted, told to leave, told to "sit down and shut up" as if we are non-entities simply because we either have personal or "up close and personal" experiences with CI.

i think its a double standard that needs to stop.
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Check out the above post # 214 to which I responded. There are a few posters on this board that appear to be incapable of discussing the ros and cons of an issue without resorting to personal attacks. When an POV or an opinion is offered that contradicts thier POV, they disocount it and start throwing personal insults that distract from the issue at hand. They ask for data and references to back up our POV, but never do they come up with same. And when we do provide research and statistical data, they go right back to the personal insults. It is obviously the only tool they have at their disposal to defend their POV--which tells me that perhaps their position in these discussions is not as solid empirically proven as they would like for people to believe. Which is why, as well, they refuse to give validity to real evidence that contradicts their position. Just another case of linguistic imperialism.
 
jillio said:
................... They are intolerant of the attitude that is presented that implies that CI users are superior to non CI users, that spoken language is superior to signed language, and that parents who allow their children to experinece their deafness as a complete part of their identity are less effective and negligent intheir parenting. It is not your viepoint that irritates people, IT IS YOUR ATTITUDE!
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This is the problem...

Assuming this is how people that are in favour of CI think...
".. CI users are superior to non CI users .."
".. spoken language is superior to signed language.."
".. that parents who allow their children to experinece their deafness as a complete part of their identity are less effective and negligent intheir parenting.."

And not just assuming; also projecting it upon people that do not have that opinion.... like me and (allow me to assume as well....) like Rick, Lillys Dad and many others.

So, keep those assumptions to yourself. And as much as you would like it, don't project it on me..
 
jillio said:
Check out the above post # 214 to which I responded. There are a few posters on this board that appear to be incapable of discussing the ros and cons of an issue without resorting to personal attacks. When an POV or an opinion is offered that contradicts thier POV, they disocount it and start throwing personal insults that distract from the issue at hand.
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You should mention post #211 as well, where Beetarehoh's calls Cloggy's opinion worthless and suggests he shut up.
 
SxyPorkie said:
good post... I agree with you completely...Cloggy needs to shut up and really listen to our opinions..instead of making up more lies....
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"our opinions"... ????

You don't have one.

Either you just make them up, and insult people, or "your" opinions are fed to you by other people.
Remember, the email you got, copied in AllDeaf and forgot to remove the name of the person feeding you the "opinion"....

And about lies, you still haven't apologized for the mistake you made, accusing me of not teaching sign, and then calling me a liar..
At least, I assume it was a mistake.... I wouldn't be a blunt lie - no would it...
 
Cloggy said:
I agree, well spotted...



That doesn't show respect....
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All beetarehoh is saying is that Deaf/deaf people are quite capable of determining their needs, their wants and their desires, and it is time that their "voice" was heard over the voice of the hearing that attempt to speak for them, yet see their needs and their identity differently than they do themselves. Listen to what they have to say--they are the true experts. And when the hearing refuse to listen to what are extremely valid points of view, the message is given that the deaf are incapable of taking care of themselves and need some hearing person to come to their rescue and tell them what is best. And no one would have to get rude if the hearing were not so good at practicing "selective deafness" (hearing what they want to hear and shutting the rest out).
 
beetarehoh said:
.........With all due respect, shut up and sit in the back seat let the CI users, HA users and deaf friendlies drive!
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jillio said:
All beetarehoh is saying is that Deaf/deaf people are quite capable of determining their needs, their wants and their desires, and it is time that their "voice" was heard over the voice of the hearing that attempt to speak for them, yet see their needs and their identity differently than they do themselves. Listen to what they have to say--they are the true experts. And when the hearing refuse to listen to what are extremely valid points of view, the message is given that the deaf are incapable of taking care of themselves and need some hearing person to come to their rescue and tell them what is best. And no one would have to get rude if the hearing were not so good at practicing "selective deafness" (hearing what they want to hear and shutting the rest out).
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Ahh.. that's what it means.... You are such a good translator....
Sorry, completely misunderstood...
And me thinking she was rude....

So glad you explained all this to me...
 
Cloggy said:
Ahh.. that's what it means.... You are such a good translator....
Sorry, completely misunderstood...
And me thinking she was rude....

So glad you explained all this to me...
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Thanks, and I'm glad we straightened out the misunderstanding.
 
That's NOT what beetarehoh said! Specifically Cloggy was told to leave the form and/or shut up becase he is HEARING.

He isn't determining ANYBODY'S needs here beyond those of his own daughter and hs family. Beetarehoh is quite capable of having his/her voice heard without insisting that other people shut up.

How are those that are deaf, and who have never had a CI the "true experts" in this situation? Wouldn't somebody who is deaf, or a parent of a CI implanted child have more insight on what really happens than those who sometimes refuse to open their eyes and/or repeatedly post myths and fallacies? (as has happened many times here)

Nobody here has ever said that deaf people are incapable of taking care of themselves, or succeeding in whatever they chose. Hearing via a CI is just another tool that can be added to the communication toolbox that a deaf person has, along with a plethora of others (lipreading, sign, etc.) Its NOT a means to an end. Its not destroying deaf people or ruining deaf culture, or curing deafness (after all is said and done - once the processor is removed, you're STILL deaf - and Cloggy has acknowledged that many times.)

I can't help but wonder - is the fact Cloggy is singled out and rediculed, insulted, intimidated, and attacked because he has a CI-implanted daughter who appears to be HAPPY to be able to hear? Is this somehow a threat, or something that needs to be hidden away lest other people realize that children with CI's CAN be happy? Because the repeated attacks I'm witnessing here against Cloggy and other parents sure seem to give this impression.
 
Cloggy said:
"our opinions"... ????

You don't have one.

Either you just make them up, and insult people, or "your" opinions are fed to you by other people.
Remember, the email you got, copied in AllDeaf and forgot to remove the name of the person feeding you the "opinion"....

And about lies, you still haven't apologized for the mistake you made, accusing me of not teaching sign, and then calling me a liar..
At least, I assume it was a mistake.... I wouldn't be a blunt lie - no would it...
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NO WAY I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE TO YOU.. YOU STILL LIES... thats why CI threads in deafnotes is closed because of your lies.... .. as for alldeaf most of us know you lie big times.... I am tired of reading your lies... you disgusted me.. big time...
 
Moderators... Please LOCK THIS THREAD.. Cloggy and his friends always come here to annoy most of us.....otherwise if there is no new Ci thread.. they stay away... I had enoughj... few of them had told Cloggy to shut up.. I did too....
 
neecy said:
That's NOT what beetarehoh said! Specifically Cloggy was told to leave the form and/or shut up becase he is HEARING.

He isn't determining ANYBODY'S needs here beyond those of his own daughter and hs family. Beetarehoh is quite capable of having his/her voice heard without insisting that other people shut up.

How are those that are deaf, and who have never had a CI the "true experts" in this situation? Wouldn't somebody who is deaf, or a parent of a CI implanted child have more insight on what really happens than those who sometimes refuse to open their eyes and/or repeatedly post myths and fallacies? (as has happened many times here)

Nobody here has ever said that deaf people are incapable of taking care of themselves, or succeeding in whatever they chose. Hearing via a CI is just another tool that can be added to the communication toolbox that a deaf person has, along with a plethora of others (lipreading, sign, etc.) Its NOT a means to an end. Its not destroying deaf people or ruining deaf culture, or curing deafness (after all is said and done - once the processor is removed, you're STILL deaf - and Cloggy has acknowledged that many times.)

I can't help but wonder - is the fact Cloggy is singled out and rediculed, insulted, intimidated, and attacked because he has a CI-implanted daughter who appears to be HAPPY to be able to hear? Is this somehow a threat, or something that needs to be hidden away lest other people realize that children with CI's CAN be happy? Because the repeated attacks I'm witnessing here against Cloggy and other parents sure seem to give this impression.
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Thank you for proving my point and offering a prime example of selective deafness and ethnocentric attitude.
 
If you don't like CI - related threads, then you should simply not come to the CI area of this website! The CI area doesn't need to be closed, and neither does this thread.

For what its worth - Cloggy has my 100% respect and support. Him and all the other parents of deaf children who participate in this section of AllDeaf.

As they say - if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Just because another board which shall remain nameless chose to close their CI area down because the anti-CI segment was unable to refrain from attacks, doesn't mean this board should follow suit, as this forum has a fantastic group of well educated, informed, and experienced posters who are able to see through the quagmire. Nobody forces you to read the posts of those you don't like - so why not just ignore them instead of insisting those in question leave, or threads get locked simply because you disagree?

Now lets get topic back on track.
 
jillio said:
Thank you for proving my point and offering a prime example of selective deafness and ethnocentric attitude.
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If supporting somebody who is being singled out and attacked for no reason makes me ethnocentric then by all means, I'll say I am!!!

"selective deafness" elaborate if you will?
 
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