Children Of Deaf Adults!

I'm sorry, Interpretator but I just can't seem to get my mind around what you're saying. (geared toward straight talk, and all that...)

Just for the record for everyone else, I am a near-native ASLer who uses it but readily adjusts to those (deaf or hearing) who use something else (except for Cue, lol). I don't think I am this....."blunt" when I am using ASL, that is, not until I want/need to be in the same manner hearing people can do this.....
 
"Straight talk" = blunt.

When you use a language, you are demonstrating aspects of the culture associated with the language. ASL is a "blunt" language and therefore Deaf culture, which developed with the language, is also "blunt," or uses "straight talk." (Straight as opposed to going around in circles, as hearing American English-speakers tend to do.)

Another example is French. This is a wide generalization but the French language is sexist in a lot of ways -- for example, the word for "woman" and the word for "wife" is the same, and strictly speaking all teachers are referred to as male even if they're female. (Nowadays people use the language differently but they're not using "official" French. As a result, French culture is also sexist in many ways, or at least what we Americans would consider sexist.

I remember talk of a native culture, I can't remember if it was native American or possibly a South American Indian culture, but basically they had no word in their language for possession, because their culture did not include the concept of possession.

I am saying, basically, that your jump from the language a person uses affecting his or her behavior does not include the aspect of culture that is linked with language. Big-D Deaf ASL users who are blunt, or use straight talk, or whatever you want to call it, are not behaving that way because they don't know English. It's because they are identifying with a culture in which being blunt is a feature -- same as in the language, ASL.

Hope I made myself more clear.
 
Interpretator, I think we might be getting there; that is, if I don't, somewhere along the line, be reduced to the pile of quivering protoplasm from whence I came before this is over! I'm really trying... Lol...ok, let's scuttle the English we, or rather, I was interjecting by way of comparison earlier and let's just take ASL and it's bluntness, straightforwardness, etc.

Why is that bluntness is inherently a feature of ASL? Why is it that, with ASL, there's no "beating around the bush"? Is this saying coyness, for example, is an impossibility with ASL? Or any other behaviors (like concilatory, politic, graciousness, etc) on the opposite end of the spectrum from bluntness (or candid, frank, curt, direct, forthright, etc)?
 
Kaitin said:
I don't think "blunt" is the correct word really. "Direct" maybe. In ASL you use movement and facial expression to say so much. So you can be gentle or angry with same signs but different emphasis, manner, face etc. No need to use different signs and probably no different signs exist really.

Speech and writing is different. Writing has so many ways to say the same thing, even the same emotion too. You add so many little words for the polite way of writing. The same words can't mean a different emotion. Speech also adds all the little words to make polite. And speech has tone and inflection with movement and facial expression. But many hearing people don't think about facial expression so much - watch hearing learn ASL and sign "I am happy" with a :| or :(. Hearing people like these aren't stupid - just different. So deaf/HoH not using all the little words in writing or speech to explain or make more gentle aren't "blunt" - just different. Maybe hearing are more sensitive about "blunt" in speech and writing and deaf/HoH are more sensitive about "blunt" in facial expression and movement.

ASL is a different language so different standards and thinking.

I don't think I make much sense. I tried. :P

Edit: My roommate read the thread and said hearing are too sensitive. But she is blunt hearing. :scatter: :laugh2:
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In short, you're saying that facial expressions are like the tone and inflections that the hearing use in hearing culture?

I remember years ago telling my father about why most of the discoverers of King Tut's tomb died. Apparently they were infected with spores. I remember hearing rumors about a curse surrounding the tomb of King tut. I said to my father and I tried to use inflection in my tone to indicate that I didn't believe in curses when I said to my father: 'So that's what the "curse" turned out to be'. He took that very literely and he said to me, that's not a curse, thats an infection. I really wished there was a way i could use quotations marks in spoken English; it's much easier to do so in ASL. My father is literal minded. In some ways, Fuzzy reminds me of him even though he's hearing.
 
Tousi said:
So you don't think that those deaf folks bereft of the command of English, a second language for them.....make for more "blunt" people? In anyone else, wouldn't it be called acting rude?
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I don't think so. It depends on how the deaf person describes the bald guy. In the Deaf culture, it's usually said in a neurtal way. If the Deaf guy describes him as being bald, it's ok but it's not nearly so ok to make fun of the bald guy.

I've no doubt that many deaf describe me as the fat lady with gray hair and glasses. I must say that took some getting used to. LOL.
 
Tousi said:
Interpretator, I think we might be getting there; that is, if I don't, somewhere along the line, be reduced to the pile of quivering protoplasm from whence I came before this is over! I'm really trying... Lol...ok, let's scuttle the English we, or rather, I was interjecting by way of comparison earlier and let's just take ASL and it's bluntness, straightforwardness, etc.

Why is that bluntness is inherently a feature of ASL? Why is it that, with ASL, there's no "beating around the bush"? Is this saying coyness, for example, is an impossibility with ASL? Or any other behaviors (like concilatory, politic, graciousness, etc) on the opposite end of the spectrum from bluntness (or candid, frank, curt, direct, forthright, etc)?
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I really, REALLY suggest you getting the book "Reading Between the Signs" by Anna Mindess. She is an interpreter of 25+years, and with input from many Deaf people, wrote a book about intercultural communication---she wrote about many cultures, INCLUDING Deaf culture.

There is a "spectrum" that has organized languages/cultures from the least direct to the most direct. American Deaf culture is near the most direct, but Israeli culture/Hebrew is considered most direct. The reasons listed?

Israeli's live in a small country where straight talk is valued, it is a way of showing intimacy. By direct telling someone what you think, you are showing that you care...as a favorite quote of mine says, "to take someone's arguments seriously enough to question them is a significant form of respect." In Israeli culture, (and in many ways American Deaf culture) it is POLITE to be direct with someone, rather than hide your feelings/beliefs. In Anna's book she quotes Tom Holcomb (a Deaf man) as saying "It's the way you would talk with your siblings." --It's showing a level of intimacy, not trying to pick on people. If you don't say something about a person's change in looks, for example, it's like showing you didn't even notice.

Secondly, Israel is a country constantly under attack and in threat of being destroyed...while American Deaf people are not in physical danger, they do deal with oppression from the hearing world, and Deaf culture is also very much under attack (mainstreaming, cochlear implants, etc.). Israeli and Deaf culture are both minority cultures.

Deaf people are culturally polite, as we all are, when the situation makes it appropriate. Asking for a favor, apologizing, etc. Deaf people and ASL both have the ability to be indirect, and are, when it is culturally appropriate to do so...few people, Deaf, Israeli, or anyone else, are direct or indirect all the time.

Lastly, one ironic thing is that many -specifically educated- Deaf people claim that, although being blunt is a part of Deaf culture, they-educated people- don't do it. But the honest truth is nearly all of them do, but because they are following a culture norm and doing what they should be doing according to their culture, they don't even notice ;).
 
signer16 said:
I really, REALLY suggest you getting the book "Reading Between the Signs" by Anna Mindess. She is an interpreter of 25+years, and with input from many Deaf people, wrote a book about intercultural communication---she wrote about many cultures, INCLUDING Deaf culture.
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I could not possibly agree more. This book taught me more than all my other interpreting textbooks combined.

As for why bluntness is inherent in ASL, it's because it's a visual-spatial language. In American hearing culture it is not considered polite to point out people based on their physical appearance, whereas in ASL it's the easiest way. Think about the old signs for AFRICA and JAPAN; they were both based on physical traits of the people from those areas, which is no longer considered appropriate...however older Deaf people still use those signs. Even so, the "new" signs are still showing physical appearance, only it's the appearance of the landmasses not the people.

I expect to get this kind of description in ASL: "Black, tall, big belly, wears glasses." It doesn't bother me. In English that would be way too "on the nose" so we end up dancing around easily identifiable points for the sake of political correctness. Not to say I don't agree with changing those signs I mentioned earlier. Just pointing out the differences.
 
:giggle: I know about CODA... But what it is called for Deaf children of Deaf parents????:ty:
 
Interpretrator said:
I could not possibly agree more. This book taught me more than all my other interpreting textbooks combined.
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Agreed! I need to read it again...it's been awhile.

Interpretrator said:
As for why bluntness is inherent in ASL, it's because it's a visual-spatial language. In American hearing culture it is not considered polite to point out people based on their physical appearance, whereas in ASL it's the easiest way....I expect to get this kind of description in ASL: "Black, tall, big belly, wears glasses." It doesn't bother me. In English that would be way too "on the nose" so we end up dancing around easily identifiable points for the sake of political correctness/QUOTE]

Exactly! That's something I didn't have time to mention earlier...was on my way to work. But Deaf people describing people's "negative physical traits" That's been something I have been able to explain even to my hearing non-signing friends...Deaf people aren't usually insulting people when describing someone's physical appearances, they are simply DESCRIBING what they see. It's a VISUAL language...

I remember watching a DI (Deaf interpreter) who voices struggle when she saw a Deaf man sign, "That black man over there" when there were 60 white people in the room, and only one black one. The interpreter looked over trying to describe his clothing, hair, etc...and the hearing person still couldn't figure out who it was---the Deaf man was thinking this hearing guy was an idiot! (Or blind) Finally the Deaf interpreter said, "The African American man." Then comes to find out the Deaf man wanted to mention the black man had just moved there from Costa Rica...ahhh! The woes of being PC.
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deafskeptic said:
I think they're called DOD: Deaf of Deaf.
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Alright... thanks...:ty:

my parents were deaf.. on my father s side all were born HOH.. except my father was born deaf... on my mother s side few deafies.. my mother were deaf at age of 3 yrs old.. I was born HOH..now totally deaf...

My son was born HOH.. i tried to send him to the deaf school like my father sent me... but the hearing tests showed he was not qualified to be in the deaf school... tests twice within two yrs.. my son threw fits.. he wanted to be in the deaf school.. they did not let him....
 
SxyPorkie said:
Alright... thanks...:ty:

my parents were deaf.. on my father s side all were born HOH.. except my father was born deaf... on my mother s side few deafies.. my mother were deaf at age of 3 yrs old.. I was born HOH..now totally deaf...

My son was born HOH.. i tried to send him to the deaf school like my father sent me... but the hearing tests showed he was not qualified to be in the deaf school... tests twice within two yrs.. my son threw fits.. he wanted to be in the deaf school.. they did not let him....
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My friend who is deaf herself went to the Deaf schools growing up and now her two deaf teenaged kids go there. However, she has a 3rd child who is hearing and he just started kindergarden this year and he has been throwing fits about going to school. My friend asked him what was the problem at school and he said that nobody knows ASL there and he wanted to go to the same school as his older siblings. Such a tough situation but very interesting.
 
shel90 said:
My friend who is deaf herself went to the Deaf schools growing up and now her two deaf teenaged kids go there. However, she has a 3rd child who is hearing and he just started kindergarden this year and he has been throwing fits about going to school. My friend asked him what was the problem at school and he said that nobody knows ASL there and he wanted to go to the same school as his older siblings. Such a tough situation but very interesting.
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Yeah... i went to the deaf school same school my father went... I felt bad for my son.. he wanted to be in the deaf school so badly... each test showed he was not qualified enough.. he threw fit... i tried to beg them to let him in... no luck...
 
That is very interesting about the son who wanted to go to the Deaf school because of deaf siblings. My son who is hearing is very much a CODA, but he did not want to be out in public to sign with me or other deaf person. It seem to me that he was ashamed of me talking in signs. He would rather sign at home instead out in public places. He did not want to become an interpreter, either. I have taught him to sign when he was very little. He understand what I was saying in signs. I think he might have been scar from cruel or rude hearing kids and was making fun of me as a Deaf person. That is my guess. When I visited him in New Mexico, U.S.A. He try to communicate in sign with me out in public like fast food or at the mechanic. He had to sign to me what they are saying. I don't know if you hearing CODA have any reaction from hearing people when you are around deaf family. I only have one son. Did you have that experience from this? :confused:
 
Bebonang said:
That is very interesting about the son who wanted to go to the Deaf school because of deaf siblings. My son who is hearing is very much a CODA, but he did not want to be out in public to sign with me or other deaf person. It seem to me that he was ashamed of me talking in signs. He would rather sign at home instead out in public places. He did not want to become an interpreter, either. I have taught him to sign when he was very little. He understand what I was saying in signs. I think he might have been scar from cruel or rude hearing kids and was making fun of me as a Deaf person. That is my guess. When I visited him in New Mexico, U.S.A. He try to communicate in sign with me out in public like fast food or at the mechanic. He had to sign to me what they are saying. I don't know if you hearing CODA have any reaction from hearing people when you are around deaf family. I only have one son. Did you have that experience from this? :confused:
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I agree with you that rude comments and belittling remarks from others are probably respsonsible for your son's reluctance to sign with you in public. It most likely had nothing to do with his feelings of love and respect for you, but was just a child's way to protect you indirectly from being judged by that type of judgement from rude people. As a kid, he couldn't stand up to others like that without them rejecting him, too, so he did the only thing he could do to protect him from being rejected and you from being ridiculed. Sadly, children often are put in situations that they just don't have the skills or the maturity to deal with, so they do the only thing they can in an effort to try to make things better.

But now that he is an adult, he has begun to sign with you in public, because he now has different skills for handling any rude comments that could be made.

Of course, I am not a CODA, but I have encountered the same situation with deaf children who have been made fun of in public schools for signing, so they will refuse to sign in public because it draws attention to their difference and allt hey want is to be accepted by their peers. Likewise, I have met, unfortunately, some parents who refuse to use sign with their children because they don't want others to know automatically that they have given birth to a "hadicapped" child. The children I have great emapthy for, and can understand their reactions. The parents.......well, that is another story altogether!
 
:ty: Jillio, that makes a lot of sense to what is happening to our hearing children of deaf adults (CODA) when they are meeting some rude hearing children or hearing people who don't know anything about our deafness. That is very sad. I know that there are people who are laughing or teasing about my deafness and I just ignore them and go on with my life. I will talk to my son about that and see what happen to him back when he was very young and why he did not want to sign out in public. If he say the same as you mention what my son was going through, then I did not know that he was having problem with that when he was out in public. I can see that clearly what is wrong with my son years ago now. Wow. Thank you very much. :wave:
 
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