Can the President Order Your Death Wtihout Due Process?

[airportcop]

so let the military take him out in a conventional way since he's an enemy combatant. why the cloak and dagger behind secret backdoor to assassinate him and keep it a hush hush?

President Obama signed National Defense Authorization Act stating that his administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens because he said "Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a nation.”

Detaining one indefinitely is one thing... but to kill one without due process? whoooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......... slippery slope!

You don't think that sending in the military is not an assassination? I understand that there are fine lines but in the end same effect.

 

[Jiro]

You don't think that sending in the military is not an assassination?

nope.

I understand that there are fine lines but in the end same effect.

you are correct - there is a fine line and military cannot do it. it does not matter if the end result is same. the action itself is illegal.

what do you think why Army did not perform "enhanced" interrogation at Gitmo Camp? it's illegal. that's why White House contracted defense contractors to handle it... which was later ruled illegal.

 

[Grayma]

what is this "separation of powers" you speak of? source please?

ah yes.... there's no such thing! it doesn't exist except in Jack Bauer's 24 tv-series.

Jiro, maybe I am misunderstanding your point. But the separation of powers is the division of the legislative, executive, and judicial branch of the federal government. It's pretty foundational to the American system of government. It's existed from the moment we ratified the Constitution, if not before.
Separation of powers under the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Separation of Powers Under the United States Constitution

I still don't think our President has the right to order the assassination of an American Citizen.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, maybe I am misunderstanding your point. But the separation of powers is the division of the legislative, executive, and judicial branch of the federal government. It's pretty foundational to the American system of government. It's existed from the moment we ratified the Constitution, if not before.
Separation of powers under the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Separation of Powers Under the United States Constitution

I still don't think our President has the right to order the assassination of an American Citizen.

yes. I'm asking him where in separation of power that allows President to assassinate an American citizen.

it doesn't exist. not even an executive order.

 

[Jiro]

so... since some of you are ok with this... then would you be ok with a foreign country assassinating its citizen on American soil?

do you think other country would be ok with U.S. President issuing an assassination order of American citizen on their soil?

 

[Grayma]

yes. I'm asking him where in separation of power that allows President to assassinate an American citizen.

it doesn't exist. not even an executive order.

Okay, thanks. I was confused.



Even if there was an executive order, I would consider that an unConstitutional executive order.

HOlder is justifying this policy, however:
Prison Planet.com » Holder To Justify Killing Americans On Foreign Soil

Obama is asserting that he has the power to order the assassination of any American Citizen that he determines is a terrorist, and nobody can stop him. There is not any check on this 'authority.'

This is a dangerous tyranny.

 

[Reba]

...I still don't think our President has the right to order the assassination of an American Citizen.

I want to be sure that I'm fully understanding your point.

Is it that the target is an American citizen that you don't agree with? Or is it that the President is issuing assassination orders at all that you don't agree with?

Are you OK with the President ordering assassinations of non-Americans overseas?

 

[Reba]

so... since some of you are ok with this... then would you be ok with a foreign country assassinating its citizen on American soil?

I wouldn't be OK with it. That's not to say that it doesn't happen.

do you think other country would be ok with U.S. President issuing an assassination order of American citizen on their soil?

Depends on the country and what secret agreements they have with our President.

 

[Jiro]

I want to be sure that I'm fully understanding your point.

Is it that the target is an American citizen that you don't agree with? Or is it that the President is issuing assassination orders at all that you don't agree with?

Are you OK with the President ordering assassinations of non-Americans overseas?

what's the point of theorizing about President's ordering of an assassination when it's illegal to begin with? President Ford was very cleared about this.

 

[Jiro]

Okay, thanks. I was confused.



Even if there was an executive order, I would consider that an unConstitutional executive order.

HOlder is justifying this policy, however:
Prison Planet.com » Holder To Justify Killing Americans On Foreign Soil

Obama is asserting that he has the power to order the assassination of any American Citizen that he determines is a terrorist, and nobody can stop him. There is not any check on this 'authority.'

This is a dangerous tyranny.

Holder is a buffoon. beside... I don't hold a high regard for U.S. Attorney General. His job is to find any very far-fetched legality for President's action and to serve as a shield... for plausible deniability.

 

[VacationGuy234]

yes. I'm asking him where in separation of power that allows President to assassinate an American citizen.

it doesn't exist. not even an executive order.

You have to understand, "broadness" of law. When a law is made broad it is made so to enhance its power by interpretation. Because of this, laws that are not specific enjoy more freedom and encompass more things. When you say the president protects national security it is specifically made broad to encompass a variety of specifics.

The fact is, you cannot build a republic and give more power to the common man than the government because there would be no order. If everyone has a right which cannot be broken, no society could exist, anarchy would prevail(might would be right).

So, when a judge considers the right of a common citizen it must not infringe on the rights of those controlling the country. There are many things you cannot sue the government for ever though it intrudes on your, "pursuit of happiness"(a broad term in itself, but different).

 

[Jiro]

You have to understand, "broadness" of law. When a law is made broad it is made so to enhance its power by interpretation. Because of this, laws that are not specific enjoy more freedom and encompass more things. When you say the president protects national security it is specifically made broad to encompass a variety of specifics.

The fact is, you cannot build a republic and give more power to the common man than the government because there would be no order. If everyone has a right which cannot be broken, no society could exist, anarchy would prevail(might would be right).

So, when a judge considers the right of a common citizen it must not infringe on the rights of those controlling the country. There are many things you cannot sue the government for ever though it intrudes on your, "pursuit of happiness"(a broad term in itself, but different).

what you just said there is the very definition of monarchy, communism, dictatorship, and fascism. nothing you said there remotely resembles of America.

 

[VacationGuy234]

what you just said there is the very definition of monarchy, communism, dictatorship, and fascism. nothing you said there remotely resembles of America.

Dude, we put innocent Japanese people in camps during WWII! If the Supreme Court says you can't have a Big Mac, you can't have a Big Mac! We are a hybrid society, a mixture of socialism and capitalism. A society built on non-extremes which is stronger than one that isn't. That, is what is patriotic about America.

Don't confuse the, "Sunday school version" with the real thing.

 

[Jiro]

Dude, we put innocent Japanese people in camps during WWII! If the Supreme Court says you can't have a Big Mac, you can't have a Big Mac! We are a hybrid society, a mixture of socialism and capitalism. A society built on non-extremes which is stronger than one that isn't. That, is what is patriotic about America.

Don't confuse the, "Sunday school version" with the real thing.

that's why it was ruled later unconstitutional and illegal. the government formally apologized & compensated them.

exactly who do you think we're going to round up this time? Muslims?

 

[VacationGuy234]

that's why it was ruled later unconstitutional and illegal. the government formally apologized & compensated them.

exactly who do you think we're going to round up this time? Muslims?

Dude, "later" is a relative term. It's great that we resolve things, "later", but it don't mean sh*t at the time. How would you feel if you went to the doctors and he said, "I'll fix your arm later"?

We already have! This time instead of camps we use the immigration service. And, we can now detain people for longer than 48 hours without cause.

Look, the question of rights will always be balanced against governmental power. It's just the way things are and there are reasons for it.

 

[airportcop]

Right now our government has too much power! I think I must agree with Jiro on this one! Downsize the government!

 

[Jiro]

Dude, "later" is a relative term. It's great that we resolve things, "later", but it don't mean sh*t at the time. How would you feel if you went to the doctors and he said, "I'll fix your arm later"?

not quite the same thing. and why in god's name would you support illegal laws?

We already have! This time instead of camps we use the immigration service. And, we can now detain people for longer than 48 hours without cause.

no we cannot detain one for longer than 48-hours without clause. that's only if you're classified as enemy combatant.

Look, the question of rights will always be balanced against governmental power. It's just the way things are and there are reasons for it.

yes. the only reason is FEAR. are you afraid? so afraid that you would support illegal laws and suspension of constitutional rights?

 

[Jiro]

Right now our government has too much power! I think I must agree with Jiro on this one! Downsize the government!

that's federalism, not socialism.

and I'm against federalism.

 

[Steinhauer]

so... since some of you are ok with this... then would you be ok with a foreign country assassinating its citizen on American soil?

do you think other country would be ok with U.S. President issuing an assassination order of American citizen on their soil?

Happens all the time.

 

[Jiro]

Happens all the time.

when did it happen? what did happen?