California Proposition Eight - Ban on Same-Sex Marriage

[Maria]

I'll make sure to inform every woman who's ever had a mastectomy or hysterectomy that they no longer qualify as real women.

Yes, they are STILL as female - the opposite sex from a male. People could recognize the difference in between the 2. The reason for mastemctomy or hysterectomy is the cause of disease or illness and for the surgery to remove it is to save women's lives.

Also, I would love to help you understand, equal in what? I'm not sure I understand the question.

I will say it once again. How come some people don't recognize the same sex partners as heterosexual partners to make same sex as equal ?

**Edit** I'll also be sure to let the 1 in 100 people (according to the ISNA) that are intersex that they should promptly remove themselves from any and all categories.

Do you have an answer to help me to understand ? I might discuss more after your answer/(s).

 

[Maria]

Simple: because they know that their argument is weak and don't want to admit defeat.

You know that argument--"fight or flight"?

They choose the latter.

Wrong answer. I am very much involved in another threads where I am mostly interested in. I don't think of this thread until I have the time to answer. I only have 2 hands to type on the keyboard and of course, I have other things around here, too. I don't sit by the computer ALL DAY. Sorry, if you guys feel that I respond too slow - please, be patience with me.

 

[Maria]

Yes, I know you are talking about marriage. But... is it okay to ban same sex couple for want to marry because they love each other?

I am aware of their love for one another. Marriage is somethin' else.

 

[Foxrac]

There's many married couples that have no children but not majority as married couple with children, benefits are main reason to be married, such as tax discount, immigration and few others.

For me, I don't want children, being marriage is really matters to me.

 

[Byrdie714]

Wrong answer. I am very much involved in another threads where I am mostly interested in. I don't think of this thread until I have the time to answer. I only have 2 hands to type on the keyboard and of course, I have other things around here, too. I don't sit by the computer ALL DAY. Sorry, if you guys feel that I respond too slow - please, be patience with me.

If it's the "wrong answer"--it sure does take 2 days to come up with an answer to our questions on your part.

I've seen that you been busy with the other threads, more so than this thread which is fine.

It's okay if you can't admit defeat on this topic. Nobody is perfect.

 

[Byrdie714]

I am aware of their love for one another. Marriage is somethin' else.

And that is what? Because that particular argument is weak, therefore, you need to come up with a stronger argument why gays shouldn't marry.

Also Isfoster and I asked you and others to answer our questions----and you haven't because you can't answer our questions.

Oh yes....Connecticut is in the news for allwoing GLBT to marry: Wedding bells toll in Conn. for gay couples - The Boston Globe

 

[lsfoster]

I will say it once again. How come some people don't recognize the same sex partners as heterosexual partners to make same sex as equal ?

Do you have an answer to help me to understand ? I might discuss more after your answer/(s).

I am aware of their love for one another. Marriage is somethin' else.

I'm still not sure what you're asking. Do you mean why won't some people recognize a same-sex union as a marriage? If that is your questions, then my answer is because they're bigoted and selfish. If I don't understand your question correctly, please let me know.

And what exactly is marriage, then? As far as I'm concerned, marriage is both a bond between two people who want to firmly express and commit to their love for one another, and it is also a certain legal status that carries many rights and benefits. I don't see why same-sex couples should be denied either of those things.

 

[Maria]

And that is what? Because that particular argument is weak, therefore, you need to come up with a stronger argument why gays shouldn't marry.

It is not because of particular argument is weak. It's because of people are seein' it different. It is the word " recognize " and THAT'S the problem. And, it is why some people are against for gay/lesbian people to marry. I am against it but, keep that in mind, I don't against persons. It is just that this " marriage " don't fit in for gay/lesbian people. That's all. But, IF they chose to marry, then there's nothin' I can do. It is not my choice for them or live their life.

Also Isfoster and I asked you and others to answer our questions----and you haven't because you can't answer our questions.

I already did - same thing.

Oh yes....Connecticut is in the news for allwoing GLBT to marry: Wedding bells toll in Conn. for gay couples - The Boston Globe

You don't have to worry about it, because for one I KNEW that the Supreme Court in every state will grant gay/lesbian people's right to marry since Supreme Court in every state will have a liberal judge. They are for the laws of the land. And.... even, they will say it is " constitutional " - if they say it, then I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[lsfoster]

You don't have to worry about it, because for one I KNEW that the Supreme Court in every state will grant gay/lesbian people's right to marry since Supreme Court in every state will have a liberal judge. They are for the laws of the land. And.... even, they will say it is " constitutional " - if they say it, then I wouldn't be surprised.

That's because it is. What is "unconstitutional" is not allowing same-sex couples to marry. That is just an undeniable fact.

And it is a weak argument. Simply because marriage means one thing to you does not mean that legally you are allowed to enforce your definition of it on others. So I'm gay. To me, marriage is between two women. That is what I think of when I think of marriage, and that makes perfect sense to me since that is marriage as I will enter into it. Should I then say that I don't "recognize" marriage as being between a man and a woman? No, of course I recognize that other people will have different preferences and different marriages than mine.

If I said that my favorite color is green, does that mean that I don't "recognize" the existence of other colors? Or that everyone else's favorite color is also green, regardless of what they say?

I also suggest that you read this page. It explains what is wrong with a lot of these arguments.
Fallacy: Appeal to Common Practice

 

[shel90]

That's because it is. What is "unconstitutional" is not allowing same-sex couples to marry. That is just an undeniable fact.

And it is a weak argument. Simply because marriage means one thing to you does not mean that legally you are allowed to enforce your definition of it on others. So I'm gay. To me, marriage is between two women. That is what I think of when I think of marriage, and that makes perfect sense to me since that is marriage as I will enter into it. Should I then say that I don't "recognize" marriage as being between a man and a woman? No, of course I recognize that other people will have different preferences and different marriages than mine.

If I said that my favorite color is green, does that mean that I don't "recognize" the existence of other colors? Or that everyone else's favorite color is also green, regardless of what they say?

I also suggest that you read this page. It explains what is wrong with a lot of these arguments.
Fallacy: Appeal to Common Practice

It never ceases to amaze me that people think they can impose their views on other people's lives especially their personal and private lives.

 

[Hwy99]

It never ceases to amaze me that people think they can impose their views on other people's lives especially their personal and private lives.

I understand how you feel, I felt the same way

 

[SFShawn13]

Marriage = 1138 federal rights

Civil unions = 300 state rights

No religion required to marry. Atheists marry. We didn't force interracial couples to get civil unions, so let's not force gays. Separate but equal is not equal.

(sorry if anyone already said that).

 

[SFShawn13]

If the gay movement is clamoring for equality for all things in life, a properly written legal proposal (some of you say past proposals "almost" get it) will give it that: a civil union. I fail to comprehend the rioting in the streets ver the "marriage" word.

I do not want any degradation of the traditional definition of marriage. If the movement succeeds, then it would be a transgression of my definition. MY MARRIAGE CONTRACT SAYS THAT I AM WEDDED AND BOUND BY THE HOLY BONDS OF.....", the simplest basis in contract law. The contract that I and my wife signed would no longer be recognizable. Arguments about the divorce rate is nothing more than a smoke screen and is not applicable.

Please do not invalidate my marriage as I knew it the day we signed it. I do not have a problem with a well written civil union proposal. I have much more to say about this hot button issue and I recognize that, no matter what opinion I have, there are always others who will throw the arguments back in my face; no matter the issue, it is always the same: to attack, be sarcastic, to denigrate. If you know me at all, it is the rare occasion that that becomes so important that being silent is not acceptable.

Because when you say I can't marry you're saying that my marriage is not as "good" or "worthy" or "bad" and while YOU can personally think that it is not right, you cant use that to legally impose your feelings onto me.

 

[Brian]

There are/were protests againist Proposition 8 nationwide, outside of California over the week-end - in Denver (CO), Salt Lake City (UT), New York City, Atlanta, Washington, DC., and elsewhere, even in smaller towns like Billings (MT).

 

[Hwy99]

There are/were protests againist Proposition 8 nationwide, outside of California over the week-end - in Denver (CO), Salt Lake City (UT), New York City, Atlanta, Washington, DC., and elsewhere, even in smaller towns like Billings (MT).

Wow, so many people protesting this!

 

[netrox]

That's good. I hope that'll make the public re-evaulate their opinons on gay marriage.

 

[lsfoster]

Well hopefully all the court cases will do something and Prop 8 won't actually go through. I'm still holding out some hope for the CA legislation.

 

[Daredevel7]

I'm annoyed by the whole thing. Do the anti-gay marriage people actually think that gay people will NEVER get married or at least have the equivalence of marriage eventually? I understand issues like abortion, death penalty, and assistant suicide, because they all involve "killing" others/questioning their right to live. A very gray area. But this??? Just makes me roll my eyes. I honestly see NO difference between Prop 8 and people who were against interracial marriage or black people voting. (How much do you wanna bet some people even said "If we let them vote, then we will let animals vote too eventually." back then?)

 

[Maria]

I'm annoyed by the whole thing. Do the anti-gay marriage people actually think that gay people will NEVER get married or at least have the equivalence of marriage eventually? I understand issues like abortion, death penalty, and assistant suicide, because they all involve "killing" others/questioning their right to live. A very gray area. But this??? Just makes me roll my eyes. I honestly see NO difference between Prop 8 and people who were against interracial marriage or black people voting. (How much do you wanna bet some people even said "If we let them vote, then we will let animals vote too eventually." back then?)

I have an old friend of mine who live in Washington state and he mentioned about " bestiality " that is legal in Washington state. So, now you stated about " a very gray area "... No different in between white and black anymore just like white and red roses - Oh, just because they are called " roses " without seein' colors ?

Of course, we are livin' in the crazy world, but no body cares if the diseases/plaques spread because of what people are doin' were soo wrong ? If, people look at different in between white and red roses, they would show their care for them by givin' each the right one to stay healthy. If, not the right one - it will get sick and maybe, will die.

That's my whole perspective. Okay, suppose if, people like to do with bestiality thing, they will probably say the same thing what same sex partners are sayin', too. I mean, they all want the same " fair " and " right ".

I am wonderin' WHAT ELSE people want after same sex partners and " bestiality " people ( I hate to say the word " bestiality " gee, I don't know what other nice word for it )... oh, yes do KIDS want the same fair and right, too after adults ? I've read some articles about same sex partners want lower age for kids to have sex. And, also in foreign country, older men want girls at age 9 to have sex too because of their law allows older men to marry young girls at age 9. What's goin' on with this world nowadays ?

 

[Byrdie714]

I have an old friend of mine who live in Washington state and he mentioned about " bestiality " that is legal in Washington state. So, now you stated about " a very gray area "... No different in between white and black anymore just like white and red roses - Oh, just because they are called " roses " without seein' colors ?

Of course, we are livin' in the crazy world, but no body cares if the diseases/plaques spread because of what people are doin' were soo wrong ? If, people look at different in between white and red roses, they would show their care for them by givin' each the right one to stay healthy. If, not the right one - it will get sick and maybe, will die.

That's my whole perspective. Okay, suppose if, people like to do with bestiality thing, they will probably say the same thing what same sex partners are sayin', too. I mean, they all want the same " fair " and " right ".

I am wonderin' WHAT ELSE people want after same sex partners and " bestiality " people ( I hate to say the word " bestiality " gee, I don't know what other nice word for it )... oh, yes do KIDS want the same fair and right, too after adults ? I've read some articles about same sex partners want lower age for kids to have sex. And, also in foreign country, older men want girls at age 9 to have sex too because of their law allows older men to marry young girls at age 9. What's goin' on with this world nowadays ?

This is a classic example of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy, it is calculated to create fear in the mind of anyone hearing the argument. It is, of course, absolutely without any merit based on experience. If the argument were true, wouldn't that have already happened in countries where forms of legalized gay marriage already exist? Wouldn't they have 'slid' towards legalized incest and bestial marriage? The reality is that a form of gay marriage has been legal in Scandinavian countries for over many years, and no such legalization has happened, nor has there been a clamor for it. It's a classic scare tactic - making the end scenario so scary and so horrible that the first step should never be taken. Such are the tactics of the fear and hatemongers.

If concern over the "slippery slope" were the real motive behind this argument, the advocate of this line of reasoning would be equally vocal about the fact that today, even as you read this, convicted murderers, child molesters, known pedophiles, drug pushers, pimps, black market arms dealers, etc., are quite free to marry, and are doing so. Where's the outrage? Of course there isn't any, and that lack of outrage betrays their real motives. This is an anti-gay issue and not a pro marriage issue.

Secondly "beastiality" is illegal in Washington state.