Bush-era interrogation memo: No torture without 'severe pain' intent

[Jiro]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- CIA interrogators used waterboarding at least 266 times on two top al Qaeda suspects, according to a Bush-era Justice Department memo released by the Obama administration.


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, seen in a December sketch, was waterboarded 183 times in a month, a memo says.

The controversial technique that simulates drowning -- and which President Obama calls torture -- was used at least 83 times in August 2002 on suspected al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah, according to the memo.

Interrogators also waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times in March 2003. Mohammed is believed to be the mastermind behind the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Obama released the memo Thursday, saying that "exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release." Watch other tactics outlined in memos »

The memo, dated May 30, 2005, was from then-Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John Rizzo, who was acting general counsel for the CIA.

It paints a different picture from the one described by former CIA officer John Kiriakou. In a December 2007 interview with CNN, Kiriakou said Zubaydah had been waterboarded for "about 30 seconds, 35 seconds" and agreed to cooperate with interrogators the following day.
In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," Michael Hayden, who directed the CIA from 2006 to 2009, was asked about the number of times Mohammed was waterboarded.


Hayden denounced the release of the memos and did not comment on the number, saying it was his understanding that the frequency of waterboarding was among the operational details that had not been declassified.

The 2005 memo refers to a letter that had contained the numbers as well. Part of the reference to the letter was redacted in the released memo.

Waterboarding is among the interrogation tactics that Obama has prohibited through an executive order.

The CIA also has admitted waterboarding Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the first person charged in the United States for the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors.

Obama said last week he felt comfortable releasing the classified memos because the Bush administration acknowledged using some of the practices associated with the memos, and the interrogation techniques were widely reported and have since been banned.


"Withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time," Obama said in a statement. "This could contribute to an inaccurate accounting of the past, and fuel erroneous and inflammatory assumptions about actions taken by the United States."

The president applauded the work of the U.S. intelligence community and said no one who "carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice" would be prosecuted.

Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times - CNN.com

there you go. because of this - it saved many lives.

 

[Jiro]

I guess you failed to read completely before relpying.

another classic Jillio's obfuscation and truth-spinning tactic

 

[jillio]

and have you seen the realities of the war? Sorry to say but you do not deserve to say such comment like above (bold print). It's a cheap cop-out for you to defend your position. It is you who do not understand the price of privilege and rights that enable you to flap your gums about how you like it or not. War isn't pretty but we do our best to adapt to protect ourself from increasingly-ruthless actions by evils. Sounds like you have a idea to deal with terrorists with vital information that can save many American lives. What is it?


so.... not even one link? :roll: I'm glad to know that our soldiers do not need to prove themselves to you. They know they'll get spit on, be called as baby killers, and get disrespected by the likes of you but in their hearts.... they live with comfort knowing that people like you are continuing to enjoy the only freedom in America that are not found in anywhere in the world.

It is not a cheap cop out at all. Its the truth. I have spoken in detail with many friends and family members who fought on the front lines. Their experience is much more valid than the fairy tale ideal from someone who has never even served in the military, much less fought in a war.

And you might want to keep in mind that this thread is about the actions of the CIA under The DOJ recommendations during the Bush adminsitration.

Try talking to a soldier that has experienced the horrors, Jiro. It would change that head in the sand, fairy tale perspective you seem to hold onto.

 

[jillio]

another classic Jillio's obfuscation and truth-spinning tactic

Not at all. Read the article.:roll: And try going to your local VA and talking to some of these soldiers, instead of playing arm chair quarter back from your safe little Lazy Boy.

 

[Jiro]

Not at all. Read the article.:roll: And try going to your local VA and talking to some of these soldiers, instead of playing arm chair quarter back from your safe little Lazy Boy.

perhaps you forgot that my best friend is the veteran and I frequent to West Point. Remember the BBQ's? Like I said - war isn't pretty. Things happen.

perhaps if you carry out the military tradition within your family, you'll understand a thing or two. You're lucky to have a rights to flap your gum in any way you want.

 

[Byrdie714]

perhaps you forgot that my best friend is the veteran and I frequent to West Point. Remember the BBQ's? Like I said - war isn't pretty. Things happen.

perhaps if you carry out the military tradition within your family, you'll understand a thing or two. You're lucky to have a rights to flap your gum in any way you want.

Just like you considering that you can't and won't be able to serve in the military.

 

[jillio]

perhaps you forgot that my best friend is the veteran and I frequent to West Point. Remember the BBQ's? Like I said - war isn't pretty. Things happen.

One West Point graduate as a friend? Hardly gives credibility to your claims. Has this so called "friend" of yours fought in the front lines? Having fun at a party hardly equates to sitting down and listening to veterans share the horrors they witnessed and eperienced. Get a grip.

And it's all too easy to take the attitude of "things happen" when you are never in danger of having to witness, nor experience, them. That is exactly why you need to stop with the arm chair quarterback crap.

 

[Jiro]

It is not a cheap cop out at all. Its the truth. I have spoken in detail with many friends and family members who fought on the front lines. Their experience is much more valid than the fairy tale ideal from someone who has never even served in the military, much less fought in a war.

And you might want to keep in mind that this thread is about the actions of the CIA under The DOJ recommendations during the Bush adminsitration.

Try talking to a soldier that has experienced the horrors, Jiro. It would change that head in the sand, fairy tale perspective you seem to hold onto.

and why do you continue to get confused? CIA and soldiers are not the same. Are your friends and family members CIA agents?

 

[Jiro]

Just like you considering that you can't and won't be able to serve in the military.

yes due to my disability disqualification so I serve for them in any able way I can do for them.

 

[Byrdie714]

yes due to my disability disqualification so I serve for them in any able way I can do for them.

Listening to a war veteran vs. experiencing a war are two different things Jiro.....

 

[jillio]

and why do you continue to get confused? CIA and soldiers are not the same. Are your friends and family members CIA agents?

Exactly. So why do you keep bringing soldiers into the discussion?

And are any of your friends and family members CIA agents?

 

[jillio]

yes due to my disability disqualification so I serve for them in any able way I can do for them.

Then perhaps you should consider serving them from their perspective.

Care to give any details on how you "serve" them?

 

[Jiro]

One West Point graduate as a friend? Hardly gives credibility to your claims. Has this so called "friend" of yours fought in the front lines? Having fun at a party hardly equates to sitting down and listening to veterans share the horrors they witnessed and eperienced. Get a grip.

And it's all too easy to take the attitude of "things happen" when you are never in danger of having to witness, nor experience, them. That is exactly why you need to stop with the arm chair quarterback crap.

huh? it's not a bunch of young guys. It's the various mix of veterans, current soldiers, defense contractors, and young West Points. Many have served in Panama, Beirut, Africa, and many more. Of course they griped some.

So what's your point? I'm sorry but it's not our fault. It's the terrorists using ruthless actions against us and we must adapt to it. It's not pretty. You want the wars to be conducted like back in American Revolution with all these fancy uniforms and marching formation on the battlefield? :roll:

btw - listening to their stories and then having a privilege to criticize does not make you any more qualified than me. You're the criticizer. I'm the supporter. That's ok. it's life as well.

 

[jillio]

huh? it's not a bunch of young guys. It's the various mix of veterans, current soldiers, defense contractors, and young West Points. Many have served in Panama, Beirut, Africa, and many more. Of course they griped some.

So what's your point? I'm sorry but it's not our fault. It's the terrorists using ruthless actions against us and we must adapt to it. It's not pretty. You want the wars to be conducted like back in American Revolution with all these fancy uniforms and marching formation on the battlefield? :roll:

Famous last words: "It's not my fault.":roll: Ever hear of personal responsibility?

 

[Byrdie714]

perhaps you forgot that my best friend is the veteran and I frequent to West Point. Remember the BBQ's? Like I said - war isn't pretty. Things happen.

perhaps if you carry out the military tradition within your family, you'll understand a thing or two. You're lucky to have a rights to flap your gum in any way you want.

So.....your "experience" is based on a BBQ that you attended at West Point?

Impressive, unfortunately not. :roll:

In the words of a well known AD'er: EPIC FAIL.

 

[Jiro]

Exactly. So why do you keep bringing soldiers into the discussion?

And are any of your friends and family members CIA agents?

please see previous post where I have corrected Liebling. You and Liebling continue to bring soldiers, CIA, and defense contractors together.

 

[Jiro]

So.....your "experience" is based on a BBQ that you attended at West Point?

Impressive, unfortunately not. :roll:

In the words of a well known AD'er: EPIC FAIL.

so Jillio's experience which is based on "chit-chat" is an EPIC FAIL too?

 

[jillio]

so Jillio's experience which is based on "chit-chat" is an EPIC FAIL too?

Hardly chit-chat. I delve deeper into the subject that superficial chit-chat. That is something you appear to have difficulty doing. Additionally, I have talked to the men that have been there done that, not those playing soldier at a party.

 

[jillio]

please see previous post where I have corrected Liebling. You and Liebling continue to bring soldiers, CIA, and defense contractors together.

Please see your post #73. You seem to be fixated on bringing the war and soldiers into the topic.

 

[Jiro]

Then perhaps you should consider serving them from their perspective.

why? You're the one who have problem with them. Not me.

Care to give any details on how you "serve" them?

I was contacted by DLA and they asked if I were interested. Of course I said yes even though I was over-qualified for it. I notified him of my latest status because the position is usually reserved for college student with 1-2 semesters left to go but I graduated 2 semesters early so he thanked me and put me in the list for available position that's more suitable for me. It takes time. meanwhile - I'm gathering all the work experience so I can serve for them (or any other 3-letters agencies) better.