Baby's reactions to their with cochlear implant

rick48 said:
Deal with what?
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It means that you have to deal with it, if you want to help deaf or CI get the access to ASL and Deaf community and not isolate the deaf or CI, just because you want them to go into the hearing community instead of the Deaf community. Deaf and Hard of Hearing are frustrating every time hearing parents tried to get them to do the hearing way, not the deaf way or the hard of hearing way. As a matter of fact, what about jobs where there are no accommodations for the Deaf or Hard of Hearing like using TDD or VRS when communicating with hearing people? Is that bad enough not get hired if the hearing employers are expected to think that we can manage fine with hearing aids or CIs? You just have to accept us the way we are, not to change us into the hearing person that you want us to be. That is my opinion.
 
Bebonang said:
It means that you have to deal with it, if you want to help deaf or CI get the access to ASL and Deaf community and not isolate the deaf or CI, just because you want them to go into the hearing community instead of the Deaf community. Deaf and Hard of Hearing are frustrating every time hearing parents tried to get them to do the hearing way, not the deaf way or the hard of hearing way. As a matter of fact, what about jobs where there are no accommodations for the Deaf or Hard of Hearing like using TDD or VRS when communicating with hearing people? Is that bad enough not get hired if the hearing employers are expected to think that we can manage fine with hearing aids or CIs? You just have to accept us the way we are, not to change us into the hearing person that you want us to be. That is my opinion.
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And that is all it is: your opinion.

And in our experiences it is a mistaken one. Our daughter grew up with deaf friends, was around deaf adults and while exposed to ASL had no interest in it until she got to college. In no way was she ever isolated from the deaf community but make no mistake about it, she was, is and always will be a part of the much larger community that communicates orally. That is her choice. Fortunately she is not saddled with the "us versus them" mentality that is so pervasive among many.

Our experiences of over twenty years ago are thankfully much different from those of today that I read of on this forum from FJ or GrendelQ's and others on forums such as the ci circle. As one of the first ci families we were subjected to abuse from the Deaf calling us nazis or child abusers and it was made clear to us that we were not welcome into the their wonderful world of Deaf Culture based upon our choices for our daughter. There is a scene in Sound & Fury of a group of Deaf adults at the Mill Neck Apple Festival. One of the women refers to cochlear implanted children as "guinea pigs". This very same woman had a child in my daughter's school and often my wife would help interpret for her at school events. It was interesting to see her true feelings exposed on camera.

Just as we chose not to expose our children to racists, bigots and other prejudiced people, so too did we choose not to expose our children to that segment of the deaf community.

Deal with it, yes we have. We exposed our daughter to a deaf community that practiced tolerance, a respect for diversity and accepted one for who they are, not how they choose to communicate. We exposed her to a deaf community that embraced her and us with open arms and who were always willing to help us and her by sharing their life experiences. Deal with it, yes our daughter has. She has graduated college, is finishing up grad school and along with her friends she is taking her place in both the deaf community and the world at large. So I think we have "dealt with it" quite well.

As for trying to change you into a "hearing person", you have a very inflated ego and are full of self-importance if you think that I care whether you are hearing or deaf and are seeking to change you into anything. This is not about you and how you think we all ought to perceive you.
 
Trying to make some deaf people into broken version of hearing people can lead to disaster and that has happened to many of us.
 
shel90 said:
Trying to make some deaf people into broken version of hearing people can lead to disaster and that has happened to many of us.
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True, but that is why parenting is so important. To be involved in your child's development, playing an active role in his or her growth. Even with that there are no guarantees that despite one's best efforts and intentions that all will turn out as planned. However, lets also be honest neither is providing ASL or placing a child in a bi-bi educational setting a guarantee of success and an issue free path for childhood development.

There is no one best or only way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

Finally, it is a very simplistic view to state that providing a child with a cochlear implant or with access to oral language development is "(t)rying to make some deaf people into broken version of hearing people". It ignores the fact that many parents are fully cognizant of the fact that their child is deaf and will always remain so no matter what method of primary language is chosen. It is based upon the false assumption that people actually believe that one can actually turn a deaf person into a hearing person. Sometimes a decision to provide a child with access to sounds and to spoken language is simply that. It is but one of many opportunities that parents will seek to provide their child throughout the course of their lives.

Thus, while it may be a catchy sound bite and for some a raison d'etre, it misses the mark as a general rule.
 
rick48 said:
True, but that is why parenting is so important. To be involved in your child's development, playing an active role in his or her growth. Even with that there are no guarantees that despite one's best efforts and intentions that all will turn out as planned. However, lets also be honest neither is providing ASL or placing a child in a bi-bi educational setting a guarantee of success and an issue free path for childhood development.

There is no one best or only way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

Finally, it is a very simplistic view to state that providing a child with a cochlear implant or with access to oral language development is "(t)rying to make some deaf people into broken version of hearing people". It ignores the fact that many parents are fully cognizant of the fact that their child is deaf and will always remain so no matter what method of primary language is chosen. It is based upon the false assumption that people actually believe that one can actually turn a deaf person into a hearing person. Sometimes a decision to provide a child with access to sounds and to spoken language is simply that. It is but one of many opportunities that parents will seek to provide their child throughout the course of their lives.

Thus, while it may be a catchy sound bite and for some a raison d'etre, it misses the mark as a general rule.
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That's why I always advocate in exposing all deaf children to both instead of one or the other.
 
Wirelessly posted

However, lets also be honest neither is providing ASL or placing a child in a bi-bi educational setting a guarantee of success and an issue free path for childhood development.
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You gotta kidding me..... :|
 
shel90 said:
That's why I always advocate in exposing all deaf children to both instead of one or the other.
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And why I believe that no matter what method parents choose that they continue to monitor their child's progress and be open to choosing/trying a different method depending upon their child's progress.
 
rick48 said:
And why I believe that no matter what method parents choose that they continue to monitor their child's progress and be open to choosing/trying a different method depending upon their child's progress.
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Well, I agree with you. However, it is not a reality for many deaf children due to their parents not being well-educated themselves or having other burdens to deal with. I see it happen too often and the children's progress gets neglected.
 
shel90 said:
Well, I agree with you. However, it is not a reality for many deaf children due to their parents not being well-educated themselves or having other burdens to deal with. I see it happen too often and the children's progress gets neglected.
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But if the same person puts their child in an ASL enviroment, they will still struggle. The family will neer learn the language, won't help with homework, they won't be language models, etc. It wouldn't matter if they were oral or ASL, the kid would struggle because the family isn't supportive. You can't blame the language for that.
 
rick48 said:
And that is all it is: your opinion.

And in our experiences it is a mistaken one. Our daughter grew up with deaf friends, was around deaf adults and while exposed to ASL had no interest in it until she got to college. In no way was she ever isolated from the deaf community but make no mistake about it, she was, is and always will be a part of the much larger community that communicates orally. That is her choice. Fortunately she is not saddled with the "us versus them" mentality that is so pervasive among many.

Our experiences of over twenty years ago are thankfully much different from those of today that I read of on this forum from FJ or GrendelQ's and others on forums such as the ci circle. As one of the first ci families we were subjected to abuse from the Deaf calling us nazis or child abusers and it was made clear to us that we were not welcome into the their wonderful world of Deaf Culture based upon our choices for our daughter. There is a scene in Sound & Fury of a group of Deaf adults at the Mill Neck Apple Festival. One of the women refers to cochlear implanted children as "guinea pigs". This very same woman had a child in my daughter's school and often my wife would help interpret for her at school events. It was interesting to see her true feelings exposed on camera.

Just as we chose not to expose our children to racists, bigots and other prejudiced people, so too did we choose not to expose our children to that segment of the deaf community.

Deal with it, yes we have. We exposed our daughter to a deaf community that practiced tolerance, a respect for diversity and accepted one for who they are, not how they choose to communicate. We exposed her to a deaf community that embraced her and us with open arms and who were always willing to help us and her by sharing their life experiences. Deal with it, yes our daughter has. She has graduated college, is finishing up grad school and along with her friends she is taking her place in both the deaf community and the world at large. So I think we have "dealt with it" quite well.

As for trying to change you into a "hearing person", you have a very inflated ego and are full of self-importance if you think that I care whether you are hearing or deaf and are seeking to change you into anything. This is not about you and how you think we all ought to perceive you.
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Id like to know why you had to state about that school? Could it be some of those group not part of that school who considered CI as a guinea pig? I am just stunned. :|

by the way, Did this very same lady get a ci or her kid?
 
faire_jour said:
But if the same person puts their child in an ASL enviroment, they will still struggle. The family will neer learn the language, won't help with homework, they won't be language models, etc. It wouldn't matter if they were oral or ASL, the kid would struggle because the family isn't supportive. You can't blame the language for that.
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But the child can understand everyone at all times in the educational setting, can they?

I dont think you have really seen what I have seen with so many deaf children in the past years.
 
shel90 said:
But the child can understand everyone at all times in the educational setting, can they?

I dont think you have really seen what I have seen with so many deaf children in the past years.
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But if the family doesn't use the language, the child shows up to school with zero language, has zero follow up at home, they are going to end up in a hideous situation. ASL won't solve that.

You said you had a problem with oral fmilies who don't follow their child's progress, I'm saying that ASL won't fix that problem. The kid will still end up with a sub par education and poor language skills.
 
faire_jour said:
But if the family doesn't use the language, the child shows up to school with zero language, has zero follow up at home, they are going to end up in a hideous situation. ASL won't solve that.

You said you had a problem with oral fmilies who don't follow their child's progress, I'm saying that ASL won't fix that problem. The kid will still end up with a sub par education and poor language skills.
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Better the kid be at a school where they have full access to a language than not having full access to language both at school and at home, heh?
 
shel90 said:
Better the kid be at a school where they have full access to a language than not having full access to language both at school and at home, heh?
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So which is better, caring involved parents who choose spoken language for their child, and do all that comes with that, therapy, special schools, services on the IEP, follow up with CI, always watching for social, emotional, and lingustic issues

OR

parents with no follow up who send their kid to an ASL school? Family never learns to sign, never include the child, don't provide interpreters, can't communicate, help with homework, etc?
 
faire_jour said:
OR

parents with no follow up who send their kid to an ASL school? Family never learns to sign, never include the child, don't provide interpreters, can't communicate, help with homework, etc?
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why did you think that way? :hmm:
 
faire_jour said:
Because I've seen it with my eyes. Parents who send their child to the deaf school, never bother to learn to sign or include their child in any way. It has bad results.
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So want to send those kids to an oral-only program?
 
faire_jour said:
So which is better, caring involved parents who choose spoken language for their child, and do all that comes with that, therapy, special schools, services on the IEP, follow up with CI, always watching for social, emotional, and lingustic issues

OR

parents with no follow up who send their kid to an ASL school? Family never learns to sign, never include the child, don't provide interpreters, can't communicate, help with homework, etc?
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That's the story of many of our lives...nothing new but many of us would prefer to be in a signing environment where we can communicate with ease if we arent getting at home.
 
shel90 said:
So want to send those kids to an oral-only program?
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Maybe? If they were to fully embrace the oral side, wouldn't it be better than half-assing ASL? If it would make them involved in their child's life, language, schooling, and future, wouldn't that be better?
 
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