Audism - The Definition and the Audist View

[shel90]

Shut your hole, please. There are PLENTY of hearing people with 'tremendous english language deficits'.... It is not an issue of the deaf.

And don't forget...hearing people have full 100% access to spoken English thru the air so there is something seriously wrong with the picture of they can't read or write the language they have full access to.

People need to stop blaming ASL.

 

[BecLak]

Wirelessly posted



the fact is that deaf children do not simply learn english because it is all around them. It doesn't happen. Many deaf children have tremendous english language deficits, including issues with reading.

again, i disagree that simply because you do not choose asl as your primary language (as a deaf adult) or for your child (as a parent) that it makes you an audist.

Language deficits are not due to being deaf. There are many, many other causes of it. I have news for you: Language can be learned without oralism yet in the majority of cases where English is taught to a deaf child in particular, oralism is enforced as mandatory to learning English.

I corrected my speech from the written language (visual) in addition to my mother naturally correcting my speech as any mother does, same as she did/does with my hearing brother and all her hearing grandchildren. (I'm the only one deaf in my family). All of us are well-spoken because of it. No difference between hearing and deaf when learning language (except the deaf are visual). In other words, look at the way most people in English speaking countries learn English (include immigrants), they don't go to 'oral programs'. Mostly by means of which I just mentioned. English classes in school too, yes, but not oral programs.

 

[Miss-Delectable]

So, there is another one. Believing that giving a deaf child ASL will impede their ability to speak or to use the English language.

Ahh, CI doctors and other medical professionals are very guilty of using this line over and over on naive parents.

Maybe we should file complaints of Audism against these doctors.

 

[BecLak]

And don't forget...hearing people have full 100% access to spoken English thru the air so there is something seriously wrong with the picture of they can't read or write the language they have full access to.

People need to stop blaming ASL.

 

[BecLak]

Ahh, CI doctors and other medical professionals are very guilty of using this line over and over on naive parents.

Maybe we should file complaints of Audism against these doctors.

Count me in on that!

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Shut your hole, please. There are PLENTY of hearing people with 'tremendous english language deficits'.... It is not an issue of the deaf.

And don't forget...hearing people have full 100% access to spoken English thru the air so there is something seriously wrong with the picture of they can't read or write the language they have full access to.

People need to stop blaming ASL.

who here is blaming ASL?

i simply said that deaf children need more than to watch tv to learn english. They don't just "pick it up".

 

[GrendelQ]

What?? Does she mean hearing people?

How many people do you know -- deaf or hearing -- who communicate without any non-verbal components? Think about facial expressions (smiles, frowns, rolling eyes, glares, anything) to gestures (shrugs, pointing, hand movements, stance, etc) to sighs, whistles, groans, coos, pauses, etc. Non-verbal communication is as much a part of spoken language as the words spoken.

 

[Bottesini]

How many people do you know -- deaf or hearing -- who communicate without any non-verbal components? Think about facial expressions (smiles, frowns, rolling eyes, glares, anything) to gestures (shrugs, pointing, hand movements, stance, etc) to sighs, whistles, groans, coos, pauses, etc. Non-verbal communication is as much a part of spoken language as the words spoken.

Bad day for me. I already forgot why I was asking. I think I had some point to make , but it escapes me now.

 

[MCB]

How many people do you know -- deaf or hearing -- who communicate without any non-verbal components?

I'm talking about those who talk with MINIMAL nonverbals. Sometimes it is only the mouth going. Sheesh!! Such defensiveness!!!!

 

[shel90]

Ahh, CI doctors and other medical professionals are very guilty of using this line over and over on naive parents.

Maybe we should file complaints of Audism against these doctors.

That would make a groundbreaking court case!

 

[GrendelQ]

Bad day for me. I already forgot why I was asking. I think I had some point to make , but it escapes me now.

Hi Botti! I'm sorry about the crappy day . I wasn't trying to be argumentative (this time ) , just pointing out that it might be unlikely to really be able to use lack of non-verbal activity as a sign of a good liar in real life. People give it away whether ther are overtly expressive or very restrained, you just need to know the signs.

Besides aren't there a few asl-using poker players online who can bluff with the best of them?

 

[Bottesini]

Hi Botti! I'm sorry about the crappy day . I wasn't trying to be argumentative (this time ) , just pointing out that it might be unlikely to really be able to use lack of non-verbal activity as a sign of a good liar in real life. People give it away whether ther are overtly expressive or very restrained, you just need to know the signs.

Besides aren't there a few asl-using poker players online who can bluff with the best of them?

I am certain PFH is one. My face is pretty immobile due to the paralysis whether signing or speaking, and in general I am pretty still in manner but it doesn't mean I lie.

I am pretty much incapable of lying, and that may have been my point. It wasn't really important.

 

[GrendelQ]

So, there is another one. Believing that giving a deaf child ASL will impede their ability to speak or to use the English language.

I don't understand why this continues despite no supporting research. Frustrates me to no end every time I hear of it. The medical staff dealing with deaf kids at children's in Boston is very adamant about this not being the case -- they actively encourage ASL.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

So, there is another one. Believing that giving a deaf child ASL will impede their ability to speak or to use the English language.

I don't understand why this continues despite no supporting research. Frustrates me to no end every time I hear of it. The medical staff dealing with deaf kids at children's in Boston is very adamant about this not being the case -- they actively encourage ASL.

there have been studies that show that kids in oral programs have better articulation than kids in sign programs... Maybe that is what they are basing it on

 

[mizerey]

Grendel many other CI centers and are against ASL on all levels. You happened to find one of the very rare places that are ok with any ASL use. Most places will tell you not to use ASL and to ONLY speak with the child, no hand signals or anything.

 

[shel90]

I don't understand why this continues despite no supporting research. Frustrates me to no end every time I hear of it. The medical staff dealing with deaf kids at children's in Boston is very adamant about this not being the case -- they actively encourage ASL.

Wow..they encourage it? All of the CI centers I know are very opposed to the use of ASL.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

I don't understand why this continues despite no supporting research. Frustrates me to no end every time I hear of it. The medical staff dealing with deaf kids at children's in Boston is very adamant about this not being the case -- they actively encourage ASL.

Wow..they encourage it? All of the CI centers I know are very opposed to the use of ASL.

which CI centers have you worked with shel?

 

[MCB]

Most places will tell you not to use ASL and to ONLY speak with the child, no hand signals or anything.

:jaw:!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deafdyke]

Essentially, they are the same thing, and I have used them interchangeably. Audism is just a specific form of ethnocentrism.

It can also be a specific form of ableism. There are pretty much identical attitudes in the way blind/low vision and physically disabled and other classicly disabled kids/people are treated. A good example is that physically disabled people are taught to strive for walking, and to regard their wheelchair/walker as a "crutch".(think about the term wheelchair bound vs wheelchair user) Blind and low vision kids are also taught to use their residual vision as much as possible, b/c using a white cane or Braille isn't "as good" Gotta teach blind/low vision kids to function as much as possible like sighted people. Gee, sound familiar? :roll:. One of my friends actually attended Perkins School for the Blind in middle and high school, and he never got to learn Braille!

Choosing not to use Sign Language is not being audist, but implication that Sign Language is not efficient for communication equal to spoken language is audism.

Actually no. I do think most of the time choosing not to use Sign IS audist. Faire joure, what you are missing is that most of the time with oral only, the child wasn't presented with both speech and sign, and given a choice with what they wanted to use. It's more like " Oh my kid can hear and talk, so they don't "need" ASL or other "special needs" sort of interventions.

 

[BecLak]

Actually no. I do think most of the time choosing not to use Sign IS audist. Faire joure, what you are missing is that most of the time with oral only, the child wasn't presented with both speech and sign, and given a choice with what they wanted to use. It's more like " Oh my kid can hear and talk, so they don't "need" ASL or other "special needs" sort of interventions.

You have a point there, deafdyke.