ASL in children with residual hearing

fhjmom

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I have a few questions for those that have some degree of hearing loss (either from birth/early childhood or aquired later) but have residual hearing.

Do you use ASL? Why or why not?

If you do not, would it change your position if you had been given the opportunity to learn ASL as a child?

I have adult onset hearing loss that is sloping into the profound range in higher frequencies. I do okay with hearing aids, but daily life is a constant challenge and struggle. From all indications it is progressive. I began learning ASL though classes at my church but I really wish I could devote the time to a more intesive training.

Since making my decision to learn ASL, we have learned that my 4 YO and my 1 YO also have moderate to severe losses. They are both now aided and doing well with them, but I really want to give them ASL in addition to oral training. I am meeting *HUGE* resistance from the 'professionals' and they keep telling me not to sign with my girls. I am in the process of trying to get ASL instruction added to my 4 YO education plan. I don't know if it is truly that they think they shouldn't sign or if they just don't want to have to spen the $$ to provide the services (which is the feeling I get with everything I ask for, ASL related or not).

My reasons are these:
1. Immediate educational need to help fill the gaps in my 4 YO's learning. Since ASL is a visual picture and literally 'displays' the concept of so many of the signs, it will help fill the holes in my DD's language (the example I use when explaining this are the signs for "give" and "take"). My DD has amazing expressive language considering her level of loss and not being aided until recently, but if you listen to her closely, you realize, while she may know the words, she may not understand the concepts completely accurately.

2. Immediate social need. We attended a conference on our on this summer dealing with the education of D/HOH children so she was around other kids who signed for the very first time. Even though she didn't sign, it was like she found her place to fit! She really enjoyed it, while my 7 YO hearing son said he felt like he was in a foreign country (I thought it was a really good lesson for him). My DD is drawn to sign and constantly asks me, "Mommy, what the sign for ____?" or if we see something that she knows the sign for she will show me.

3. Long term social need. I have meet several HOH adults (raised oral) who have choosen to learn sign as teenager/adults b/c they said they felt like they never fit in the hearing world. They found they weren't 'deaf enough' for the deaf world, but they were more welcome if they signed. I guess that's the way I feel, I no longer belong to the hearing world, but I don't fit in the deaf world either. I feel like if I give my girls ASL, then they will have more power to make the choice that is right for them when they get to that point.

4. Progressive loss. Since my loss in progress, we are assuming the girls' losses will be also (althogh we don't know that). I would much rather give the girls the time to develop fluency in ASL before the absolutely have to have it. Even if they are some day CI canidates, there are always times when the processors are off (just as now, there are situations where the aids have to come out, like the pool, beach, etc.) so ASL would give them access to communication at all times, not just when their technology is on.

5. Family needs. My perfect world would be where everyone voiced to me but used sign support. I am not yet fluent enough in sign to depend soley on ASL, but I can use it to 'fill in the blanks' when I miss a word or misunderstand. As my own fluency increases, I will use it more, especially if the trend of my own hearing loss continues.

Despite all these reasons, they make me feel like I am crazy. I guess I am looking for people who have lived it to tell me if these reasons are really valid or if I should throw in the towel and just plug along teaching the girls myself (which will be *very slow*). I will teach them ASL, I just wish we could get some real instructional support. Our church classes are great and are taught by certified interpreters, they just are short sessions with long breaks and I can't always make every class b/c of activites with the kids. My hubby wants to learn but the church classes are on 7 YO's football night (which hubby coaches).

Anyway, I would love to hear thoughts on teaching ASL to primarily oral HOH kids.
 
I have residual hearing. 95db loss left ear. 70db loss right ear.

So obviously I can hear somewhat.

But my parents were in the anti sign camp.

I did not speak until age 5.

Now I do sign some.

I am certain my life would be much different if I had the advantage of ASL in early childhood.
 
My hearing loss is 120 dB in both ears since birth and I wasnt allowed to learn ASL for the sake of making me normal. ASL in my childhood would have saved me a lot of emotional trauma and made my life so much easier.
 
I have such a short time due to a thrilling football game coming up in a minute, but I just read a source by linking somewhere which you might be interested to read this one. It's at:

Decrease of Deaf Potential


ps. ASL is absolutely a must for the deaf and HoH especially for the early intervention by the way.
 
What's wrong with being multilingual at an early age? For some reason, some folks seem to think learning ASL would retard a child's early development. Not only that way of thinking is intolerably ignorant, it messes with that early development.
 
What's wrong with being multilingual at an early age? For some reason, some folks seem to think learning ASL would retard a child's early development. Not only that way of thinking is intolerably ignorant, it messes with that early development.

I totally agree with u on that one 1,000% ! As a teacher for the deaf, it is so frustrating to see children's language development become retarded due to this myth.
 
No you are NOT wrong. I'm glad you've got the sense to teach your children sign language. Maybe if you also went to your local deaf club with them you might also be able to expose them to more fluent Deaf people tat way.

I wish my parents had taught me sign languae even though I only had a mild loss in early childhood which deteriated later on.
 
we have learned that my 4 YO and my 1 YO also have moderate to severe losses. They are both now aided and doing well with them, but I really want to give them ASL in addition to oral training. I am meeting *HUGE* resistance from the 'professionals' and they keep telling me not to sign with my girls. I am in the process of trying to get ASL instruction added to my 4 YO education plan. I don't know if it is truly that they think they shouldn't sign or if they just don't want to have to spen the $$ to provide the services (which is the feeling I get with everything I ask for, ASL related or not).
Are you in a mainstream school district? Are there any Deaf programs or Deaf Schools near where you are? One place I would start is by contacting your state's School for the Deaf. They might be able to direct you towards self contained or regional magnet educational programs for dhh kids.
That would be a lot easier then fighting for stuff like ASL instruction in a mainstream school that tends to be mostly used to handling LD kids.
Even most special educators don't have a lot of training in how to teach kids with more classic disabilites.
Are you guys memebers of the American Society for Deaf Children? American Society for Deaf Children
and the Parent-Deaf-hh listserv? Archives of PARENTDEAF-HH@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU
I have a simalir loss as to your daughters. Unfortunatly, my parents ALSO got told that "Oh she doesn't need it, she's more hearing then deaf/etc etc.
ASL for hoh kids is a MUST. Most of us can and DO master speech. However, we are mostly pushed towards the hearing world. Very few of us get "deaf" related education and intervention. I gotta say I think the gross majority of hoh kids can benfit significently from exposure to Deaf educational methods.
Even mainstreamed hoh kids have an educational lag of about one or two years. Maybe exposure to Deaf educational methods would really give hoh kids a REAL useful tool, that would really increase acheivement in the hoh population!
 
Please don't let the school system or the professionals sway you in your committment to ASL and your deaf children's needs.

Here's a bit of a suggestion re: the IEP. Instead of requesting sign language instruction, ask for a terp. At 4 years of age, she will learn just as quicly through exposure as she would with formalized instruction.
 
Please don't let the school system or the professionals sway you in your committment to ASL and your deaf children's needs.

Here's a bit of a suggestion re: the IEP. Instead of requesting sign language instruction, ask for a terp. At 4 years of age, she will learn just as quicly through exposure as she would with formalized instruction.

Why a terp instead of sign language instruction? Just curious as I think the terp would be signing in PSE instead of ASL.
 
Yeah, but jillo the school board will be " Oh she doesn't need a 'terp b/c she doesn't know ASL"
I really think a good idea might be to find either a Deaf School or a Deaf magnet school or a self contained program, and put her in there.
 
Why a terp instead of sign language instruction? Just curious as I think the terp would be signing in PSE instead of ASL.

Because a school system is not obligated to provide instruction in another language, unless the child is a foreign language speaker and ESL instruction is necessary; like for a child that is ASL based and needs remedial English instruction, or a Spanish speaking child who needs English instruction.

They are, however, required to provide those services that will facillitate communication and allow for academic access.

This parent would have almost no chance of winning a due process hearing for a request for ASL instruction, because the child is not guaranteed such under the ADA.

However, a terp is one of the accommdoations provided for under the ADA to facillitate communication and provide access. She has a chance of winning a case on this basis under a due process hearing.

If the school system is refusing to provide ASL instruction, they no doubt will refuse to provide a terp, as well. In order to get the accommodation written into the IEP, this parent will most likely have to refuse to sign the IEP as written and request due process in front of an administrative law judge. If you go to due process, you need to make sure that you have a solid legal foundation for your case. Otherwise, it will simply be dismissed.

The important thing is that this child have exposure to ASL. If a terp is the only legal way to make that happen under an IEP, then go for the terp. It is certainly better than nothing.

The request can be made that the terp sign in ASL. The terp does not decide which mode to use, the client does.
 
Yeah, but jillo the school board will be " Oh she doesn't need a 'terp b/c she doesn't know ASL"
I really think a good idea might be to find either a Deaf School or a Deaf magnet school or a self contained program, and put her in there.

A Deaf school would most definately be the preferred placement, but again, if this parent is insistent upon having this child placed in the home school district, then this is really the only option under the law.

And the school system might very well say that. It is not unusual. That is why it is necessary to use the due process rights. I was also told when my son was in the first grade that he didn't need a terp because they were providing him with an FM system. I went to due process, and got his terp.

The home school district is also the district that decides on outside placement. If they refuse to provide a terp based on a child not knowing sign language, they will also refuse to provide placement at a school for the deaf based on the same reasoning. It may take several years of problems in the classroom before the school system finally agrees to outside placement. They will generally only agree to pay for outside placement when they have exhausted all options, the child is obviously falling far behind with the services being provided, and all indications are that they cannot meet that child's needs. It is incumbent upon the parent to continually show the ways in which their child's needs are not being met, and to support it with documentation, testimony, and any other evidence they can get their hands on.

The school board doesn't decide placement or services. The multidisciplinary team decides which services they will offer, the parent either agrees to this plan or requests changes to the IEP as written by the multidisciplinary team. At due process, an outside adminsitratiove law judge hears the cases of both the child and the school system and renders a decision. The school board never enters into the equation.
 
Thanks so much for all the discussion. To try to answer some of the questions, we are in a mainstream private pre-school right now since she is only 4 YO. Our school district is required by law to provide her services, but we have the right to dual enrollment (private pre-school/public services) since she is not yet in kindergarten. The district does offer a pre-K program that she may qualify for but it is a 'special' program for kids that are 'at-risk' or disabled in some way. There are no hearing impaired kids in that program and there are multiple other reason I do not believe that to be the best placement for my daughter (one of which is, when we went to visit, the regular teacher was teaching some basic signs with the kids - letters and colors - and she was teaching the completely incorrect signs!). Our state allows districts to choose to be a part of a cooperative agreement that supports regional deaf school programs or to set up a cluster site of their own within their district. Our district choose to set up their own cluster site so I was told the regional school was not an option (since our district is not part of the cooperative agreement) and the in-district cluster site would be in the class I mentioned above, where the teacher was teaching incorrect signs. Oh, and did I mention that in spite of having over 6,000 elementary children in our district, there is not one single child currently receiving support from the TOD so my DD would still be the only hearing impaired child in the program.

Another issue I am having is that she is completely on age-level for everything, including language, so no one thinks she needs any help. Since she talks well, they think she is fine! They don't see the child I see at the end of the school day that is exhausted and frustrated and is doing all she can to hold it together all day and keep up in the regular class, but since she is already a master of coping and lip-reading, no one will help. They say she has to fail before they will do anything!

Thanks again for all the responses! I welcome any more insights anyone would like to share.
 
Thanks so much for all the discussion. To try to answer some of the questions, we are in a mainstream private pre-school right now since she is only 4 YO. Our school district is required by law to provide her services, but we have the right to dual enrollment (private pre-school/public services) since she is not yet in kindergarten. The district does offer a pre-K program that she may qualify for but it is a 'special' program for kids that are 'at-risk' or disabled in some way. There are no hearing impaired kids in that program and there are multiple other reason I do not believe that to be the best placement for my daughter (one of which is, when we went to visit, the regular teacher was teaching some basic signs with the kids - letters and colors - and she was teaching the completely incorrect signs!). Our state allows districts to choose to be a part of a cooperative agreement that supports regional deaf school programs or to set up a cluster site of their own within their district. Our district choose to set up their own cluster site so I was told the regional school was not an option (since our district is not part of the cooperative agreement) and the in-district cluster site would be in the class I mentioned above, where the teacher was teaching incorrect signs. Oh, and did I mention that in spite of having over 6,000 elementary children in our district, there is not one single child currently receiving support from the TOD so my DD would still be the only hearing impaired child in the program.

Another issue I am having is that she is completely on age-level for everything, including language, so no one thinks she needs any help. Since she talks well, they think she is fine! They don't see the child I see at the end of the school day that is exhausted and frustrated and is doing all she can to hold it together all day and keep up in the regular class, but since she is already a master of coping and lip-reading, no one will help. They say she has to fail before they will do anything!

Thanks again for all the responses! I welcome any more insights anyone would like to share.

She does not have to fail before the school system is obligated under law to provide the accommodations she needs. That is absurd!

I wish you luck with your battle. It looks like the school district you are dealing with is one of the more difficult. Anything I can help you with, feel free to ask.
 
fhjmom,
I gotta say I agree with you. That special class doesn't sound like the type that a just hoh kid needs. I cannot believe in a school district of over 6,000 kids there are no kids who are receiving TOD services?!?! WOW.....just wow.
I am a big fan of split placements for dhh and blind low vision kids. Like a dhh or blind/lv class for a couple of days, and then regular class. I would take this to due process. See if you can't get a regional dhh program placement. You could argue that placement in a dhh program would mean that she'd be getting TOD services. Just because she's doing OK now, it doesn't mean that doing so isn't very hard for her. I have to say that growing up I was mainstreamed to the max. I also had a ton of behavoiral issues, akin to ADD. Looking back, a lot of my issues were due to the fact that I was really frustrated, and working too hard to really acheive. I didn't know how to articualte that.
I would contact your state's School for the Deaf and see if they might know of any good resources to help you. Also your state's chapter of NAD might be a good resource as well!
 
I really wish that parents don't have to jump thru hoops to get what they want. Good luck, fhjmom.
 
I really wish that parents don't have to jump thru hoops to get what they want. Good luck, fhjmom.

**nodding agreement** Been there, done that. It is like being in a circus act 24/7!
 
Since making my decision to learn ASL, we have learned that my 4 YO and my 1 YO also have moderate to severe losses. They are both now aided and doing well with them, but I really want to give them ASL in addition to oral training. I am meeting *HUGE* resistance from the 'professionals' and they keep telling me not to sign with my girls. I am in the process of trying to get ASL instruction added to my 4 YO education plan. I don't know if it is truly that they think they shouldn't sign or if they just don't want to have to spen the $$ to provide the services (which is the feeling I get with everything I ask for, ASL related or not).

Learn the language, teach your children since they have moderate to severe hearing losses.

Don't let anyone tell you different.

Please don't let the school system or the professionals sway you in your committment to ASL and your deaf children's needs.
Here's a bit of a suggestion re: the IEP. Instead of requesting sign language instruction, ask for a terp. At 4 years of age, she will learn just as quicly through exposure as she would with formalized instruction.

:thumb: :thumb:
 
My daughter has a progressive loss. She was moderate when we started to learn ASL. She is now severe-profound and we are seeking a CI for her. That being said, she has been in a bi-bi school for the Deaf since she was 3. She is now in Kindergarten and can sign like any Deaf of Deaf kid. I am so glad we use ASL because her speech is still delayed. As her hearing has gotten worse her language has continued to grow. We are very happy with our choice.

-Melissa Jensen

Mom to Miss Kat- 5, bilateral progressive loss, just became severe-profound (on our way to a right side AB)

Miss Kat's Deaf journey
 
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