Another academic controversy?

[ITPjohn]

This is pretty strong! I got it from a friend in TX. I think that the good professor is entitled to his opinions. Since this was a private e-mail and not something from a class, he should be able to speak his mind without any trouble from the school.
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Hooray for Michigan State University (The Spartans) and Professor Wichman!!!

Well, what do we have here? Looks like a small case of some people being able to dish it out, but not take it. Let's start at the top. The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were "hate speech." Enter Professor Wichman. In his e-mail, he said the following:

"Dear Moslem Association: As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU, I intend to protest your protest.

I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey!), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called "whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris, France.

This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile "protests."

If you do not like the values of the West -- see the 1st Amendment -- you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

Cordially, I. S. Wichman, Professor of Mechanical Engineering"

Well, as you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't like this too well. They're demanding Wichman be reprimanded and mandatory diversity training for faculty and a seminar on hate and discrimination for freshman. How nice.

But now the Michigan chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion.

For its part, the university is standing its ground. They say the e-mail was private, and they don't intend to publicly condemn his remarks. That will probably change. Wichman says he never intended the e-mail to be made public, and wouldn't have used the same strong language if he'd known it was going to get out.

How's the left going to handle this one? If you're in favor of the freedom of speech, as in the case of Ward Churchill, will the same protections be demanded for Indrek Wichman? I doubt it.

 

[jillio]

Perhaps it was in a private email, but it speaks volumes about this professors attitudes and mind set. I personally would not want him teaching culturally diverse students with an attitude of such bigoted intolerance. His personal opnions and attitudes do influence his teaching. Intolerance of one culture will trasfer to intolerance of any culture different from his own. I find that unacceptable in an environment of higher education.

 

[sr171soars]

Perhaps it was in a private email, but it speaks volumes about this professors attitudes and mind set. I personally would not want him teaching culturally diverse students with an attitude of such bigoted intolerance. His personal opnions and attitudes do influence his teaching. Intolerance of one culture will trasfer to intolerance of any culture different from his own. I find that unacceptable in an environment of higher education.

So what...big fat hairy deal. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and as it is a private email it has no bearing on his official capacity. To judge the man based upon his thoughts not his actions is very intolerant in itself. This world would be a very boring place if everybody thought the same exact thing. How bland the world would be...with the thought police everywhere...

You have thoughts yourself you wouldn't want others to know about simply because they "wouldn't" understand or are very private. Nobody is totally without intolerance...not one human being on this planet.

Lets get one thing straight...Muslims are not renowned for their tolerance either! I don't care if they are fundamentalists or moderate. None of them tolerate free sex, homosexuals, and other things we "take" for granted here. If you don't believe me, just try it over there and see how long you last! If you are a thief, they will chop your hand off (I know they do this in Saudi Arabia).

They are not western in thought nor in religion. They are aliens in a strange land and they are already trying to get the Sharia law established here in two places that I know of (St. Louis and Baltimore). Whether the politically correct like it or not, they will eventually prevail with such antics and you know why? Because nobody has the guts to stop them! Ohhhhh, we have to be tolerant of others in case we offend them... Plleeeessssseee, spare me such tripe!!!!!

 

[jillio]

So what...big fat hairy deal. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and as it is a private email it has no bearing on his official capacity. To judge the man based upon his thoughts not his actions is very intolerant in itself. This world would be a very boring place if everybody thought the same exact thing. How bland the world would be...with the thought police everywhere...

You have thoughts yourself you wouldn't want others to know about simply because they "wouldn't" understand or are very private. Nobody is totally without intolerance...not one human being on this planet.

Lets get one thing straight...Muslims are not renowned for their tolerance either! I don't care if they are fundamentalists or moderate. None of them tolerate free sex, homosexuals, and other things we "take" for granted here. If you don't believe me, just try it over there and see how long you last! If you are a thief, they will chop your hand off (I know they do this in Saudi Arabia).

They are not western in thought nor in religion. They are aliens in a strange land and they are already trying to get the Sharia law established here in two places that I know of (St. Louis and Baltimore). Whether the politically correct like it or not, they will eventually prevail with such antics and you know why? Because nobody has the guts to stop them! Ohhhhh, we have to be tolerant of others in case we offend them... Plleeeessssseee, spare me such tripe!!!!!

This is a political viewpoint and has no place in academia. Thoughts always precede actions, and our thoughts influence our actions if often unconscious ways. If you don't want one to know your thoughts, you are better off not expressing them. He put this in an email, this info can be accessed by others. He made his thoughts public by expressing them in an email, therefore he is responsible for any consequences he experiences as a result.
And YES!!! In an academic atmosphere that is culturally diverse, we must practice tolerance, not only for the benefit of others, but for our own benefit as well.

These are not private thoughts. Once they are expressed they become subject to judgement of others. The fact that he chose indiscretion does speak of his academic capacity.

I am very well aware of the Muslim doctrine. I co-authored a paper with a psych prof and a Muslim soc prof at the university where I am employed on how Muslim attitudes and the Koran influenced the perceptions of social justice. We are currently designing a research project based on the paper.

I find your narrow minded viewpoint as offensive as the professor's.

 

[Tousi]

sr171soars sez:They are not western in thought nor in religion. They are aliens in a strange land and they are already trying to get the Sharia law established here in two places that I know of (St. Louis and Baltimore). Whether the politically correct like it or not, they will eventually prevail with such antics and you know why? Because nobody has the guts to stop them! Ohhhhh, we have to be tolerant of others in case we offend them... Plleeeessssseee, spare me such tripe!!!!!

I agree; Jillio and people of her ilk will be the end of us lest we are ever-vigilant!

 

[Reba]

Perhaps it was in a private email, but it speaks volumes about this professors attitudes and mind set. I personally would not want him teaching culturally diverse students with an attitude of such bigoted intolerance. His personal opnions and attitudes do influence his teaching. Intolerance of one culture will trasfer to intolerance of any culture different from his own. I find that unacceptable in an environment of higher education.

I don't see anything wrong with the content of the professor's email, or his right to send it. If it was a private, personal correspondence, then he probably shouldn't have included "As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU" so that it would be clear that he was stating a personal opinion, not a school opinion. That would be my only criticism.

Since when is being against beheading people "bigoted intolerance"? We should tolerate those acts????? I think the atrocities that the professor cited are more than just cultural diversities.

 

[Reba]

This is a political viewpoint and has no place in academia.

You mean it's a conservative viewpoint, and thus not acceptable in academia.


"The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were 'hate speech.'"

If it's OK for the students to protest, why isn't it OK for the professor to respond with a counter protest?

And YES!!! In an academic atmosphere that is culturally diverse, we must practice tolerance, not only for the benefit of others, but for our own benefit as well.

As long as those "diversities" aren't calling for violence (such as kidnappings and beheadings) against others.

Accepting conservative Christian viewpoints is also accepting diversity, is it not?

 

[Tousi]

That's what I love about you, Reba! Makes me wish I'd tempered my own response.

 

[jillio]

You are approaching this from an ethnocentric viewpoint and are refusing to consider that what is acceptable and what is deviant is subject to cultural norms. What is acceptable from a Western cultural viewpoint is not necessarily what is acceptable from a non-Western cultural viewpoint. Western norms may be correct for you--that does not make them superior to other cultural norms nor does it make them absolute.

 

[jillio]

I don't see anything wrong with the content of the professor's email, or his right to send it. If it was a private, personal correspondence, then he probably shouldn't have included "As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU" so that it would be clear that he was stating a personal opinion, not a school opinion. That would be my only criticism.

Since when is being against beheading people "bigoted intolerance"? We should tolerate those acts????? I think the atrocities that the professor cited are more than just cultural diversities.

They are exactly cultural diversities, and for the reasons I have stated above.

He did choose to identify himself as an employee of the university, and therefore it can be assumed that he is speaking for the university. That in itself, tells me something about his ethics and his attitudes.

I did not say I supported the Muslim viewpoint. I am Western, and therefore, I subscribe to Western norms and values. Neither can I judge them in their cultural norms and values, because they are just as valid for them as our Western values are for us. Tolerance does not imply ageement, simply open minded understanding.

Academia does not imply liberalism. It does however, imply openmindedness and the ability to understand that a value other than one's own may be valid, even if we do not agree with it. It also implies a willingness to learn from others and to drop the attitude that the way we personally know is always the best for all.

 

[Tousi]

Who's talking about superiority or absoluteness? Not us; we ARE Western and they are not and if they don't like it, they can get the heck outta Dodge! That's what I'd do and understand if I was "over there". It's liberal views like yours that allowed what took place in the UK recently. The only thing I allow for you, Jillio, and I'd fight to the death for it for you and that is your right to express what you have thus far but that's all!

 

[jillio]

Who's talking about superiority or absoluteness? Not us; we ARE Western and they are not and if they don't like it, they can get the heck outta Dodge! That's what I'd do and understand if I was "over there". It's liberal views like yours that allowed what took place in the UK recently. The only thing I allow for you, Jillio, and I'd fight to the death for it for you and that is your right to express what you have thus far but that's all!

Actually, its not liberal views like mine that allowed what happened. Its political and law enforcement incompetence. Where you live has nothing to do with the cultural identification you have. There are numerous cultures that do not subscribe to Western norms living in the US and the UK. And not all Muslims subscribe to extremist view points.

 

[sr171soars]

This is a political viewpoint and has no place in academia. Thoughts always precede actions, and our thoughts influence our actions if often unconscious ways....

No doubt that is true but you forget one thing. There is no such thing as neutrality of politices in academia. Nobody is neutral. Everybody has a belief system and they subscribe to it consciously or unconsciously. It cannot be ignored just because one says so or attempts to do so. Whether one is liberal or conservative leaning...it comes out one way or another. The one thing people can do...is try to be fair and balanced regardless of those beliefs...unfortunately, we live in a winner take all system and thus it is not a practical thing.

Academia is worst off because none are so blind as those who live with artificial constructs of thoughts...

And YES!!! In an academic atmosphere that is culturally diverse, we must practice tolerance, not only for the benefit of others, but for our own benefit as well.

That only works when all subscribe to those rules. Again, that is not the case here. If there was a majority of Muslims (regardless of leanings) as professors, just how do you think they will view things? Certainly not from the viewpoint of tolerance as you so love to preach. The ground rules have changed and very few can see it...how sad.

I am very well aware of the Muslim doctrine. I co-authored a paper with a psych prof and a Muslim soc prof at the university where I am employed on how Muslim attitudes and the Koran influenced the perceptions of social justice. We are currently designing a research project based on the paper.

I find your narrow minded viewpoint as offensive as the professor's.

It is one thing to write a paper (in the citiadels of academia) and it is a totally different thing when the rubber meets the road (i.e., real life). If it were just all about remedy wrongs in society (social justice), that would be one thing. Islam is much more than that. It is about being the acendent religion which all of life must be based. That my friend is where you and others miss the boat. Just think if it were you who were those reporters that "had" to convert to Islam in order to hope to be released. Ummm....doesn't sound very tolerant to me... You can have it...not me. I prefer to see life through clear lens...

As for offense, *shrug* it is the the so called "wide" minded that are replete in history that no longer exist...just think of the golden age of Greece. Where are they now? We are seeing a revival of that same clash since the 1300s. This is an ancient battle that is still going on and pity those who can't see it.

 

[sr171soars]

You are approaching this from an ethnocentric viewpoint and are refusing to consider that what is acceptable and what is deviant is subject to cultural norms. What is acceptable from a Western cultural viewpoint is not necessarily what is acceptable from a non-Western cultural viewpoint. Western norms may be correct for you--that does not make them superior to other cultural norms nor does it make them absolute.

You again forget when one side doesn't play by the "rules" then it is perfectly acceptable to stick with what you prefer. Are you telling me that you prefer to roll over and let them dictate the outcome? It is so sad that so few see this coming...

By the way, this is not about which is superior even though it comes out that way at times. If you believe all viewpoints are correct, then if they decide that you need to conform to their ways, how are you going to react? Have a big debate and see who argues better? What an absolute joke! They aren't in this to play word games. They are in this to win. You better figure out what you believe or somebody else will do it for you...

 

[Buckdodgers]

Whats About that University Colorado professor Ward Churchill who called the victims of 9-11 part of nazi holocaust? What about the Teacher in Vermont who Called George Bush another Adolph Hitler in his class. I think Those Teachers should be fired.Ill Bet when another Democrat gets in White House and if a Teacher calls him a Socialist Joseph Stallin I Bet theyre fire him.

 

[jillio]

sr171soars:

A) Agreed. No one is neutral and I never insinuated that it is so. However, when expressing views under the auspices of employment by a university, we must strive to remain neutral in our expressions.

B) That is exactly why I stated that disciplinary action should be taken. Because tolerance is not the cae here. If you are talkingabout an American University, then intolerance from the Muslims would not be tolerated anymore that intolerance from those of a more Westernized philosophy.

C) True. That is why we included a practicing Muslim in our research. Agreed. It is an antecedant of religion, and that si why we used the Koran as the basis for explaining perceptions.

D) Point made. Battle is still going on and will be until the end of time.

E) I do know what I believe. And you are misinterpreting my words. The original question was: "Should the university discipline the professor?" According to university policy, the answer would be yes. It has notho do with agreement of Muslim philosophy, but of a university policy of tolerance in expression of view when association with the university is implied.

 

[Reba]

...The original question was: "Should the university discipline the professor?" According to university policy, the answer would be yes. It has notho do with agreement of Muslim philosophy, but of a university policy of tolerance in expression of view when association with the university is implied.

Where's the university policy posted? I didn't see it. Is it linked?

 

[sr171soars]

sr171soars:
...
B) That is exactly why I stated that disciplinary action should be taken. Because tolerance is not the cae here. If you are talkingabout an American University, then intolerance from the Muslims would not be tolerated anymore that intolerance from those of a more Westernized philosophy.

Only if everybody agreed but that is not the case and you know what I mean. It is one thing when a conservative says something and another if it were a liberal. That is what gets my goat. There is no level playing field here.

...

D) Point made. Battle is still going on and will be until the end of time.

There have been ebbs and flows throughout history with this stinking war. Right now, the West is totally befuddled with the current offensive. A part of that is the lack of understanding about the "enemy" and what drives them. This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen about the West...

I don't think it will be to the end of time...I have a very good idea about that...

E) I do know what I believe. And you are misinterpreting my words. The original question was: "Should the university discipline the professor?" According to university policy, the answer would be yes. It has notho do with agreement of Muslim philosophy, but of a university policy of tolerance in expression of view when association with the university is implied.

Okay, okay...getting to the nitty gritty...Personally, I say nope. He did not speak in an official capacity even though he used he name and title.

Peace and nice polemics...

 

[Teresh]

The Professor had every right to say what he did, though it necessarily indicates his status as a bigot... Categorising Muslims in such demeaning ways isn't at all fair.

 

[Reiko]

Whats About that University Colorado professor Ward Churchill who called the victims of 9-11 part of nazi holocaust? What about the Teacher in Vermont who Called George Bush another Adolph Hitler in his class. I think Those Teachers should be fired.Ill Bet when another Democrat gets in White House and if a Teacher calls him a Socialist Joseph Stallin I Bet theyre fire him.

That's because liberals believe in free speech only for liberals.