Advanced Bionics returns to the US market

What are the "odds" of dying from NOT having "surgery" ( excluding Cochlear implantation?
I understand death for each one of us is 100%.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
What are the "odds" of dying from NOT having "surgery" ( excluding Cochlear implantation?
I understand death for each one of us is 100%.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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This is truly an absurd comparison. No one, NO ONE, has ever had their life shortened significantly by choosing not to have a CI. If this subject is to be discussed with any intelligence at all, the comparisons based on emotional comparisons such as a 40 year old dying now or living to their expected longevity with a pacemaker have to be thrown out.
 
Really absurd comparison? Hardily in the category of the Cochlear Implant operation which is not "life threatening" except of course when effected by-computer surgeons.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Really absurd comparison? Hardily in the category of the Cochlear Implant operation which is not "life threatening" except of course when effected by-computer surgeons.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Yes, really absurd comparison. You are confusing "life threatening surgery" with "life threatening disorder." There is nothing "life threatening" about deafness.:roll:
 
jw here, has anyone died from cochlear implant surgeries? (not stirring anything up, but just curious, cause if so, that sucks)
 
Wirelessly posted

bbaseballboy123 said:
jw here, has anyone died from cochlear implant surgeries? (not stirring anything up, but just curious, cause if so, that sucks)
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no one has dies from a ci surgery but there has been deaths from meningitis.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



no one has dies from a ci surgery but there has been deaths from meningitis.
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Nice way to try to color things rosy. Meningitis deaths directly related to CI surgeries and listed as a possible negative consequence.:cool2:
 
bbaseballboy123 said:
jw here, has anyone died from cochlear implant surgeries? (not stirring anything up, but just curious, cause if so, that sucks)
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An 8 year old girl did die from it. That was years ago. I need to find the info on it first. Give me time to get it back to you.
 
jillio said:
If an implant fails, and one choses to be reimplanted, there is always the risk of death during surgery.

Perhaps the pacemakers have better reliability because the manufacturers are more deversified and not as profit hungry as the CI manufacturers. After all, when was the last time you saw a pacemaker advertisement?
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How much does an ICD cost? What is the manufacturing cost of an ICD? What is the cost of a CI? What is the manufacturing cost of the CI?

Now lets just take a look at a company that does brady/tachy rhythm management. On good example is Medtronic. Their gross margin is 75.9% (2010 Medtronic Annual report). In the 2011 Cochlear Corp annual report, they reported a gross margin of 72%.

I am failing to see how you can make a statement as blatantly false as saying that companies selling pacemakers are ”more deversified (sic) and not as profit hungry as the CI manufacturers”.

Looking at the two biggest players in both fields (Medtronic and Cochlear), it is clear in my math that 72% gross margin is less than 75.9% gross margin. Of course, once again, this doesn’t fit your world view and facts should not get in the way of spreading dis-information about a world view.

I have posted links to the annual reports. You can find within them the term "gross margin". But in case you need help, Cochlear presents gross margin on pg 14 and Medtronic on pg 102.

http://www.cochlear.com/files/assets/corporate/pdf/COH-AR_2011_ED_110831.pdf

http://www.medtronic.com/downloadablefiles/mdt-2010-annual-report.pdf

I understand if you dislike CI manufacturers. However, that is not a reason to make up blatant false information to pass on as though it were true. Once again I find that you either intentionally spread mis-information to support your world view, or you are ignorant of facts which you speak. I hope it is the latter and you are becoming more educated with links to the actual information.

C1
 
jillio said:
Same risk for the anesthetic as for any other surgery. It is the being put unconscious and getting just a bit too much anesthetic that is the risk. It is the same for anything.

The other risks will vary with the individual. They will be dependent upon all kinds of things.

And risk of complication increases with each subsequent surgery one has...no matter the type. That is one of the reason doctors state that elective surgeries are so risky. The time comes that you need a surgery to save your life, but your cummulative risks are too high.
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I must agree with Jillion on this one for the most part.

Even simple routine surgery under general people die from. Also, any surgery carries a risk of infection.

It is not common, but the risk is there.

C1
 
CrazyOne said:
How much does an ICD cost? What is the manufacturing cost of an ICD? What is the cost of a CI? What is the manufacturing cost of the CI?
C1
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Where are you going with this? What's your point?
 
Cheetah said:
Where are you going with this? What's your point?
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My point is when someone makes a statement about greedy profit motives such as:

jillio said:
Perhaps the pacemakers have better reliability because the manufacturers are more deversified and not as profit hungry as the CI manufacturers. After all, when was the last time you saw a pacemaker advertisement?
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Then I would hope they can at a minimum tell me what a CI cost is (minus doctor/surgery/markup) and what the COGS is for a CI. At the same time I would hope they can tell me what the cost of an ICD (implantable cardiac defibrillator) is (again minus doctor/surgery/markup) and what the COGS of an ICD is. If this information cannot be presented it no better than a personal opinion based upon a guess or a statement not based upon fact to support a particular world view.

As can be seen by the annual reports, the company making the CI has a lower gross margin than the one making an ICD. Kinda screws up the world view of the profit hungry CI manufacturers.

-C1
 
CrazyOne said:
My point is when someone makes a statement about greedy profit motives such as:



Then I would hope they can at a minimum tell me what a CI cost is (minus doctor/surgery/markup) and what the COGS is for a CI. At the same time I would hope they can tell me what the cost of an ICD (implantable cardiac defibrillator) is (again minus doctor/surgery/markup) and what the COGS of an ICD is. If this information cannot be presented it no better than a personal opinion based upon a guess or a statement not based upon fact to support a particular world view.

As can be seen by the annual reports, the company making the CI has a lower gross margin than the one making an ICD. Kinda screws up the world view of the profit hungry CI manufacturers.

-C1
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I used to have this information. Back when I got my CI. sad that I don't know where this info is now.

I think its pretty safe to assume any publically traded company is "in it for the money". There is a reason people invest in medical companies. They usually make money. That's not to say that these companies cannot have altruistic motives as well. Who says we cannot make a profit and be good to the community?

Two of the biggest CI companies have recent voluntary recalls. this really hurts their bottom line. Its silly to think that a company ONLY wants to make a profit. Most people working for these companies also believe they are doing good for the people that need their product.

I know there are "bad" companies out there, but most honestly do want to provide a high quality product. And they deserve to be paid for their work. The only question is.... how much is too much?
 
It is refreshing to see someone who actually understands that companies generally exist to make money. It can be done by building bombs or by making things that help people. But companies that don't make money don't stay around long.

How much is too much? Well, digging into actula earnings, most medical companies hover around 20% net margin.

If a company (doing anything) is making less than 10% they need to be doing something different.

-C1
 
Cheetah said:
I used to have this information. Back when I got my CI. sad that I don't know where this info is now.
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I suspect that you were told how much the CI cost you from the doctor. You probably were not told what the doctor paid for it and even more doubtful you were told COGS (cost of goods sold). Very few people know what COGS are for a CI and if they know, the probably won't share.


-C1
 
CrazyOne said:
I suspect that you were told how much the CI cost you from the doctor. You probably were not told what the doctor paid for it and even more doubtful you were told COGS (cost of goods sold). Very few people know what COGS are for a CI and if they know, the probably won't share.


-C1
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I actually sat down with the hospital billing person that showed me exactly line by line what was charged including a line for the implant, surgery, ect... now, you could be right as this was a few years ago and I did not go in looking for that information. If you really want this information, it should not be too hard to find it. Try calling around.
 
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