Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[fredfam1]

Exactly. Speech skills do not equal language development. This is a common misconception perpetrated by the oralists.

Sooo true. I just had an experiance using the VRS system and I was amazed
at the new depth of communication with my Deaf friend. English is her
second language. Her parents were Deaf. Although we have enjoyed each
others personalities, our communication never had much depth. But with the
Interpreter viewing her signing I realized how much of this woman I was missing!
I love the VRS. Its better than even email because there again you are relying
on the Deaf person being able to communicate in another Language with you. I
admire a lot of the Deaf on this site who are actually from other countries, and are going from their native Deaf language to their native country language to
English. Woah! Hurts my brain just thinking about it!

 

[jillio]

Sooo true. I just had an experiance using the VRS system and I was amazed
at the new depth of communication with my Deaf friend. English is her
second language. Her parents were Deaf. Although we have enjoyed each
others personalities, our communication never had much depth. But with the
Interpreter viewing her signing I realized how much of this woman I was missing!
I love the VRS. Its better than even email because there again you are relying
on the Deaf person being able to communicate in another Language with you. I
admire a lot of the Deaf on this site who are actually from other countries, and are going from their native Deaf language to their native country language to
English. Woah! Hurts my brain just thinking about it!

Yes, it is amazing the nuances that ASL conveys visually. It is so much more than just the signed concept. And without complete communication, one is always lacking in knowledge of the other. That is why so many deaf have conveyed the feeling of being "separate" of "different", and then the "feeling of coming home" or becoming complete" with ASL and the Deaf community.

Language is so much more than the simple mimicry of sounds or the mimicry of gestures. It is the symbols by which we communicate our true selves, and the medium by which we understand our world and those in it.

 

[shel90]

Sooo true. I just had an experiance using the VRS system and I was amazed
at the new depth of communication with my Deaf friend. English is her
second language. Her parents were Deaf. Although we have enjoyed each
others personalities, our communication never had much depth. But with the
Interpreter viewing her signing I realized how much of this woman I was missing!
I love the VRS. Its better than even email because there again you are relying
on the Deaf person being able to communicate in another Language with you. I
admire a lot of the Deaf on this site who are actually from other countries, and are going from their native Deaf language to their native country language to
English. Woah! Hurts my brain just thinking about it!

 

[shel90]

Yes, it is amazing the nuances that ASL conveys visually. It is so much more than just the signed concept. And without complete communication, one is always lacking in knowledge of the other. That is why so many deaf have conveyed the feeling of being "separate" of "different", and then the "feeling of coming home" or becoming complete" with ASL and the Deaf community.

Language is so much more than the simple mimicry of sounds or the mimicry of gestures. It is the symbols by which we communicate our true selves, and the medium by which we understand our world and those in it.

 

[loml]

This Hearing person is teaching her children ASL. I am not fluent, but I
understand the syntax, I understand which ideas are presented first, I understand about interpreting meaning for meaning, and I understand about
cultural differences. I have taught my children all of these things. Any one I teach I teach as I have been taught by Deaf instructors, without interpreters present in the class. I know how it feels to be plunged into a classroom setting with no way to understand my instructor. (Purposefully done by the instructor more than 24 years ago) My class due to start next spring will
be taught using ASL. My signs will be correct signs, not the adapted baby
signs. I saw no reason to speak like a moron to my babies and I see no reason
to sign to them like one.

Good for you fredfam. Will you be certifed as a teacher of ASL? Are you hoping to run this through a college program or?? Have you decided how many people/babies per class and how many hours etc? So this will be a "no voice" enviroment?

The jury is not out on the subject of The Early Aquisition of Language. It has
been proven to boost IQs, decrease frustration and facilitate communication. It is a no brainer! ASL, not oralisum is the easiest Language for a child to aquire. Period.

I disagree with your statements regarding the boosting of IQ.

 

[deafskeptic]

Exactly. Speech skills do not equal language development. This is a common misconception perpetrated by the oralists.

Nods Shel and Jillio, my ex bf has no oral skills at all but his English is better than my own.

 

[Cheri]

I agree with you completely, I see Shel and Jillo as pro-Deaf culture. And I am all about children and making decisions based on that particular child and whatever works for that child not what has worked for other children but that child and that child's needs.

How do you really know what works for a particular child?? Almost all members here on AD have hearing parents, and many of us learned signs much later because we weren't introduced to sign language.

While spoken words are important so are sign language, Why can't they use both? from my understanding what's wrong with using all communications?

Are you a hearing parent? Do me a favor, why don't you turn down the volume on the TV so you can't hear it. How much can you understand of what they're saying? Would you be able to understand words and meanings by watching their lips and face?

Deaf people read lips everyday. Put yourself in those deaf people shoes, and You'll understand why we deaf people feel that sign language and spoken language are important, not because we are anti-oral. All it takes for a person to understand where we are coming from, feel our pains this is what we struggle half of our lives, it's time for hearing parents to start listening, I mean really listen. The real experts are deaf adults.

While deaf people are not all alike which I agree, but that doesn't mean they cannot use all communication options: / Oral Auditory / Verbal / Cued Speech / Total Communication and Sign Language They entitled to full communication access to avoid any delaying in their language.

 

[fredfam1]

Good for you fredfam. Will you be certifed as a teacher of ASL? Are you hoping to run this through a college program or?? Have you decided how many people/babies per class and how many hours etc? So this will be a "no voice" enviroment?




I disagree with your statements regarding the boosting of IQ.

This class will due to budget constraints be very limited. I will be getting paid $100 for five weeks, and I am putting the program together myself for the public library. I have extensive experience as a tour guide, and park guide and I have given many presentations to large groups of people. This will be my first formal ASL teaching experience and will be a class designed to instruct Hearing parents on how to teach ASL to their infants. Some will have babies, some will be pregers! Of course I have volunteer teaching experience at private Christian schools and I've homeschooled my own kids for 20 years. (I have 7 children)
(Any advice would be appreciated) I don't think this class would be conducive to a "no voice" environment except for the first class in order to give parents the "feel" for having no means of communication. There is no way at this point in my ASL exposure, (no Deaf friends near me) that I could get any kind of certification, with test anxiety, ADD, and dsylex..., dislux....,umm I get things backwards. If the class
is mine, no one is testing me and the environment is comfortable I will be fine.
Thank the Lord for public libraries. I am getting so much interest that I may have to limit enrollment as the library is not that big. Of course since I home school, my kids will be assisting me as part of their experience. (Like when I
host the DeafChatCoffee this Dec 2nd my 3 youngest children ages, 7, 10, and 12 will be dressed in aprons and will help serving the clientel! If I can get some pics I will post them here. Again any suggestions will be wellcome. I plan on giving out a working vocabulary of 225 signs, with a few ASL idioms. I will not give any SEE signs or PSE. The way I explain it to hearing adults is that the signs for words like to and the are incorporated into the sign, ie it is assumed to be there. They seem to be able to accept that more. I do not anticipate any of these people will become fluent because they will all be over the age of 17. I am striving to increase the awareness level and to facilitate making public demonstrations of ASL a "cool" thing to do.

 

[jillio]

This class will due to budget constraints be very limited. I will be getting paid $100 for five weeks, and I am putting the program together myself for the public library. I have extensive experience as a tour guide, and park guide and I have given many presentations to large groups of people. This will be my first formal ASL teaching experience and will be a class designed to instruct Hearing parents on how to teach ASL to their infants. Some will have babies, some will be pregers! Of course I have volunteer teaching experience at private Christian schools and I've homeschooled my own kids for 20 years. (I have 7 children)
(Any advice would be appreciated) I don't think this class would be conducive to a "no voice" environment except for the first class in order to give parents the "feel" for having no means of communication. There is no way at this point in my ASL exposure, (no Deaf friends near me) that I could get any kind of certification, with test anxiety, ADD, and dsylex..., dislux....,umm I get things backwards. If the class
is mine, no one is testing me and the environment is comfortable I will be fine.
Thank the Lord for public libraries. I am getting so much interest that I may have to limit enrollment as the library is not that big. Of course since I home school, my kids will be assisting me as part of their experience. (Like when I
host the DeafChatCoffee this Dec 2nd my 3 youngest children ages, 7, 10, and 12 will be dressed in aprons and will help serving the clientel! If I can get some pics I will post them here. Again any suggestions will be wellcome. I plan on giving out a working vocabulary of 225 signs, with a few ASL idioms. I will not give any SEE signs or PSE. The way I explain it to hearing adults is that the signs for words like to and the are incorporated into the sign, ie it is assumed to be there. They seem to be able to accept that more. I do not anticipate any of these people will become fluent because they will all be over the age of 17. I am striving to increase the awareness level and to facilitate making public demonstrations of ASL a "cool" thing to do.

Kudos to you! And whether they become fluent or not, ort whether they decide to continue their studies at an upper level, you are increasing awareness, and it is this awareness that will help to dispel the myths that the oralist seem intent upon perpetrating?

 

[rick48]

What makes u think that I havent been exposed to children like yours? Just because a few oral deaf children are successful doesnt make it ok that others fail. What makes that right?

Because if you had then you could never make truthfully make that piece of garbage statement you made. There are many, many successful oral kids who are standing up for their rights but you are just too close-minded, just like your friend who just insulted Jackie's son and last week called an articulate young lady "brain washed" to realize that.

 

[jillio]

Because if you had then you could never make truthfully make that piece of garbage statement you made. There are many, many successful oral kids who are standing up for their rights but you are just too close-minded, just like your friend who just insulted Jackie's son and last week called an articulate young lady "brain washed" to realize that.

Here we go again. Can you actually engage in an intelligent discussion of facts, or is insult and personal attack the only way you know how to communicate? Unless you are able to actully substantiate your ridiculas accusations, I suggest that you keep them to yourself.

 

[rick48]

So should they just take the negative comments? Should their children take the abuse and name calling? Should they place them in educational evironments that provides negative teachers or negative comments about their children's CIs? Should they allow their children to be put throught that? They are protecting their children from harm - emotional harm. I agree with them.

Rick, Cloggy, and Jackie - I hope your children exposure the world the positives and negatives of being oral deaf. I for one, enjoy hearing about their progress as well as anything that is not working.

vallee,

We have exposed our daughter to the deaf community since day one. She and we are proud to know many deaf people who are truly caring and wonderful people and who have been a trendous source of help and inspiration to us. What we chose not to do is to expose our children to those who consider themselves to be Deaf, like Jillio, who chose to judge our daughter for how she communicates and not for who she is.

Rick

 

[jillio]

vallee,

We have exposed our daughter to the deaf community since day one. She and we are proud to know many deaf people who are truly caring and wonderful people and who have been a trendous source of help and inspiration to us. What we chose not to do is to expose our children to those who consider themselves to be Deaf, like Jillio, who chose to judge our daughter for how she communicates and not for who she is.

Rick

So, in effect, you have kept her restricted to the oral deaf community, which is nothing more than the hearing community without benefit of auditory function. How very liberal and free thinking of you! You're a real humanitarian, you are!

But don't worry. She'll most likely find the Deaf community on her own just like the others posting here who were restricted to an oral only environment.

 

[rick48]

Absolutley his research is current and extremely significant. And you seemed to be able to find him despite my typo....so your point is?

Maybe you should read it and then you would learn how he also supports deaf children getting implants as soon as possible. Something you always seem to omit in your references to him.

 

[jillio]

Maybe you should read it and then you would learn how he also supports deaf children getting implants as soon as possible. Something you always seem to omit in your references to him.

I've never omitted that. You, however, consistently omit the fact that his research supports sign and speech for implanted children.

 

[Lantana]

CI and Speech arguments

People believe what they want to believe. Particularly about their own child.

All this emphasis on CI's for *one child* in a family makes me worry about the remaining children. What are they, chopped liver?

Lantana

 

[jillio]

People believe what they want to believe. Particularly about their own child.

All this emphasis on CI's for *one child* in a family makes me worry about the remaining children. What are they, chopped liver?

Lantana

You are correct, unforutunatley, in that. And, sometimes what is wanted to be believed has no direct relationship to reality.

 

[rick48]

Then your perceptions are in error. I am not anti-CI.;

Yea, and if you think we believe that, then I guess the Pope's Jewish!

 

[jillio]

Yea, and if you think we believe that, then I guess the Pope's Jewish!

Frankly rick, what you believe is of no concern to me. You bought into the propaganda of the oralists, so I don't consider your analytical skills to be very discriminating.

 

[rick48]

Then why is it that they obviously are not teaching deaf children in the mainstreamed programs?

Gee, I will have to tell my daughter and her friends who were mainstreamed and in or have graduated from college that they were not taught.